[Archived] Transfers Part 2

[JHRover]

28 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 

Would the signings and approach to transfers not make you think things are different? Mowbray just said he decides who stays and goes. We are favourites for the title and I expect us to be at the top. 

As I've said, we were always going to be initial favourites. The manager/signings to date don't change that.

I agree that if we keep what we have and add some more depth, particularly up front, then we ought to be at the top.

The signings and approach to transfers so far appears identical to any other summer. They usually allow a few in early and leave the sales until late. I agree Mowbray is a massive step up on the last manager both in terms of his ability and personality.

What Mowbray says/has been told and what actually happens could well be very different things. I hope not, but its not as though they haven't got form for such things is it?

[Dreams of 1995]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

As I've said, we were always going to be initial favourites. The manager/signings to date don't change that.

I agree that if we keep what we have and add some more depth, particularly up front, then we ought to be at the top.

The signings and approach to transfers so far appears identical to any other summer. They usually allow a few in early and leave the sales until late. I agree Mowbray is a massive step up on the last manager both in terms of his ability and personality.

What Mowbray says/has been told and what actually happens could well be very different things. I hope not, but its not as though they haven't got form for such things is it?

Whilst the pattern of signing players early/selling late is true you can't consider this approach identical to any summer for the past few years at all. Last few years we have relied on free journeymen and the loan market for out of sort players to get some game time/injury prone players to build fitness. Dare I say this is the first time in recent history we've looked for players that are proven at the level we are playing at, dished out some good contracts that seem to play in our favour and have gone about business in a professional, dignified manner.

The fact Coyle brought in about 6 players in a few days should have sent alarm bells ringing with us. Unprofessional and certainly didn't give a club time to think whether the deal was right for them if they have to contend with 6 different clubs, players and agents simultaneously. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

15 minutes ago, JHRover said:

As I've said, we were always going to be initial favourites. The manager/signings to date don't change that.

I agree that if we keep what we have and add some more depth, particularly up front, then we ought to be at the top.

The signings and approach to transfers so far appears identical to any other summer. They usually allow a few in early and leave the sales until late. I agree Mowbray is a massive step up on the last manager both in terms of his ability and personality.

What Mowbray says/has been told and what actually happens could well be very different things. I hope not, but its not as though they haven't got form for such things is it?

Am, yes they do change that. They make us bigger favourites. Hence why our odds have shortened. 

The approach to transfers is not identical to any season under Venkys. There is a structure in place to target areas we all agree needed strengthening. The manager is saying players don't need to be sold. 

Some valid points though. Thin line between success and failure with the Vs. People may find that strange, but we would have went back up our first season in the Championship if we had a proper manager like Warnock or Mick McCarthy. The squad was there, money was spent. It just ended up being the biggest cluster F of a season. Anyway, I digress  

[JHRover]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Whilst the pattern of signing players early/selling late is true you can't consider this approach identical to any summer for the past few years at all. Last few years we have relied on free journeymen and the loan market for out of sort players to get some game time/injury prone players to build fitness. Dare I say this is the first time in recent history we've looked for players that are proven at the level we are playing at, dished out some good contracts that seem to play in our favour and have gone about business in a professional, dignified manner.

The fact Coyle brought in about 6 players in a few days should have sent alarm bells ringing with us. Unprofessional and certainly didn't give a club time to think whether the deal was right for them if they have to contend with 6 different clubs, players and agents simultaneously. 

Bowyer and Lambert both went about business in a professional manner and recruited players suited to the league we were in.

The only surprise thus far has been that we've paid out quite a large fee for Dack without selling someone first. That is a pleasant surprise and a break with recent years. Whittingham is an impressive free signing that should be a good player at this level but its a similar situation to Danny Graham last summer. Shelling out competitive/above average wages has never really been the issue, and in League One you get a lot more for your money than in the Championship.

I agree though that unlike the Coyle debacle we've now got a more trustworthy and capable man running business, but I had full confidence in Bowyer and Lambert on recruitment yet neither were afforded a proper opportunity.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, JHRover said:

Bowyer and Lambert both went about business in a professional manner and recruited players suited to the league we were in.

The only surprise thus far has been that we've paid out quite a large fee for Dack without selling someone first. That is a pleasant surprise and a break with recent years. Whittingham is an impressive free signing that should be a good player at this level but its a similar situation to Danny Graham last summer. Shelling out competitive/above average wages has never really been the issue, and in League One you get a lot more for your money than in the Championship.

I agree though that unlike the Coyle debacle we've now got a more trustworthy and capable man running business, but I had full confidence in Bowyer and Lambert on recruitment yet neither were afforded a proper opportunity.

Bowyer made some good signings and had a clear plan but let's not forget some of the dross he served up, albeit in circumstances no manager should be put in.

As for Lambert I don't consider him a success at all. For me Elliot Ward isn't great, Simeon Jackson wasn't even average and Matt Grimes wasn't proven at all. Let's not try and sugar coat Lambert's time here because he had the principles to make him walk from the farce of Venkys. Taking away all of what he probably had to put up with he was less than inspiring as a manager, both tactically and recruitment wise.

His backroom staff was impressive though. Shame they got forced out with OC and his gang of leaches. 

[JHRover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Am, yes they do change that. They make us bigger favourites. Hence why our odds have shortened. 

The approach to transfers is not identical to any season under Venkys. There is a structure in place to target areas we all agree needed strengthening. The manager is saying players don't need to be sold. 

Some valid points though. Thin line between success and failure with the Vs. People may find that strange, but we would have went back up our first season in League 1 if we had a proper manager like Warnock or Mick McCarthy. The squad was there, money was spent. It just ended up being the biggest cluster F of a season. Anyway, I digress  

Nonetheless we were favourites as soon as the odds came out even when we had released 12 players and couldn't fill a bench. Tells me the odds at this stage aren't really worth bothering with.

How do you know there wasn't a structure in place under Bowyer in 2015 and Lambert in January 2016? (I'll try and keep Coyle references to a minimum). In terms of areas that need strengthening there's no debate to be had. A few weeks ago we had 1 central midfielder who missed all last season injured. You don't need a structure to realise that new midfielders were needed urgently. We've 2 forwards on the books, one often unfit and the other can't be bothered playing, so no manager in the world is going to leave that department alone going into a 46 game season.

Half the squad has needed strengthening because they've sold/released everyone. We're now getting numbers back up towards a more acceptable level

Do you remember Lambert saying he had money to spend? What happened to that one? He didn't get anything and then walked away in disgust a few months later. Why on earth do you suddenly think everything Mowbray is saying is going to be gospel? I hope you're right but surely the best approach is to see it before you believe it with this lot?

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Speedie Dived said:

At the Q and A this morning Mowbray confirmed that two bids were in for strikers.

He also said we fended off serious interest for Dack, notably from Redknapp.

Got to say, the man spoke impressively well. 

He went through each signing as well and explained why he liked them.

was this a Business Q and A?

did Mowbray go in detail which roles within the team he expected each player to play? or the type of football and style he wants us to play this season

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

And that is pretty much all we ask from our manager. Somebody who is forthright, honest and speaks a football language we understand and can identify with. 

Mowbray is deffo this type of person and speaks with passion and enthusiastic

1 hour ago, Speedie Dived said:

He was certainly that. Also said Gladwin was a free but has add ons if we go up

ok thanks

10 minutes ago, JHRover said:

As I've said, we were always going to be initial favourites. The manager/signings to date don't change that.

I agree that if we keep what we have and add some more depth, particularly up front, then we ought to be at the top.

The signings and approach to transfers so far appears identical to any other summer. They usually allow a few in early and leave the sales until late. I agree Mowbray is a massive step up on the last manager both in terms of his ability and personality.

What Mowbray says/has been told and what actually happens could well be very different things. I hope not, but its not as though they haven't got form for such things is it?

Not sure I would call this a identical to any other summer but to me, its appears a change plan, we signed 4 players so far, Mowbray has said he wants the 3-4 signings in within the next 2 weeks and with bids in for 2 strikers and a right back wanted.

Mowbray has been very open and honest about players leaving and his stance But Mowbray is a completed different to any other manager we had under Venkys

 

[JHRover]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 But Mowbray is a completed different to any other manager we had under Venkys

 

What makes you say that? He's better than Coyle yes, talks more sense yes, I can accept his personality is more popular than Lambert's, but what else?

[Mike E]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

What makes you say that? He's better than Coyle yes, talks more sense yes, I can accept his personality is more popular than Lambert's, but what else?

He seems to have played a blinder imo:

- He went and saw Venky's, so he's in their good books.

- He's referenced a 'man's promise', which plays nicely on the Indian cultural necessity to save face. If he ever has the chance from their actions to say they've let him down, they may worry about losing face.

Petty, but it could work and it kept Kean in a job for far too long. Difference is, Mowbray has actual managerial pedigree compared to most managers under this lot (under Allardyce and just above Lambert imo).

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

What makes you say that? He's better than Coyle yes, talks more sense yes, I can accept his personality is more popular than Lambert's, but what else?

Straight talking. Keeps reiterating how hard work is the most important factor in success. In a mostly working class area like Blackburn, I would imagine people can relate to that. 

[Speedie Dived]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

Would you be willing to go into more detail re: what he said about each player? I didn't know about this Q&A but would be very interested.

It was a business at rovers invite job.

Talked about Whittingham's delivery every time he has played against him, how he always sticks it on a 6 pence. Likes the fact he keeps the ball moving and plays on the half turn.

Mentioned we had fended off interest for Dack, nearly joined Bristol City for £2 million last year but move was blocked, became disillusioned as he was not on much money. His job now to get him back to where he was.

He forgot Gladwin, to much amusement. Then said that he joined QPR for £1.3 million and was always running through his teams with the ball and he had to get a plan to stop him. Said he was a free.

He made a good point about understanding concerns about buying League 1 players, will become a league 1 side. Finished off saying we will get some loans in from the big boys

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

What makes you say that? He's better than Coyle yes, talks more sense yes, I can accept his personality is more popular than Lambert's, but what else?

speaks with passion and enthusiastic. always enjoy listening to his interview, signing players to fit within the structure and style of the team and he wants us to play.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Mike E said:

He seems to have played a blinder imo:

- He went and saw Venky's, so he's in their good books.

- He's referenced a 'man's promise', which plays nicely on the Indian cultural necessity to save face. If he ever has the chance from their actions to say they've let him down, they may worry about losing face.

Petty, but it could work and it kept Kean in a job for far too long. Difference is, Mowbray has actual managerial pedigree compared to most managers under this lot (under Allardyce and just above Lambert imo).

Very good points. He is saying all the right things football wise. More importantly though he is holding the Venkys accountable and putting them in the limelight where, if they do break promises, it will be transparent and he can walk away with his head held high. I hope so much that it works out for him. 

[oldjamfan1]

1 minute ago, Speedie Dived said:

It was a business at rovers invite job.

Talked about Whittingham's delivery every time he has played against him, how he always sticks it on a 6 pence. Likes the fact he keeps the ball moving and plays on the half turn.

Mentioned we had fended off interest for Dack, nearly joined Bristol City for £2 million last year but move was blocked, became disillusioned as he was not on much money. His job now to get him back to where he was.

He forgot Gladwin, to much amusement. Then said that he joined QPR for £1.3 million and was always running through his teams with the ball and he had to get a plan to stop him. Said he was a free.

He made a good point about understanding concerns about buying League 1 players, will become a league 1 side. Finished off saying we will get some loans in from the big boys

Thanks, that is really helpful and extremely promising

[JHRover]

Lambert was praised for 'saying all the right things' in terms of being very clear about what he wanted to do - push for promotion - and what he wanted/expected to help him achieve that. After a few months it collapsed because these owners wouldn't speak to him, put a budget in place or do anything that owners of a football club ought to do.

I dearly hope my pessimism/scepticism is misplaced. There's nothing I'd like more than Mowbray to lead us back up at the first attempt and for him to be the first man to find a way to work with Venkys successfully.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Dreams of 1995]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

speaks with passion and enthusiastic. always enjoy listening to his interview, signing players to fit within the structure and style of the team and he wants us to play.

I don't think enjoying listening to his interviews is what JHRover was asking for.

Personally I didn't enjoy PLs style of football. He was negative. I worked at Aston Villa in hospitality throughout my time at university and I witnessed him for years there. Awful football, sub-standard signings and generally boring atmosphere generated by him. I'm glad we got rid of him.

[JHRover]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

speaks with passion and enthusiastic. always enjoy listening to his interview, signing players to fit within the structure and style of the team and he wants us to play.

So why is that better than Lambert saying he wanted to target promotion and nothing less was good enough?

Do you not think Lambert was signing players to fit within his structure (selling Rhodes, signing Graham) until they did the dirty on him?

I enjoy listening to Mowbray also. A good man, clearly loves his football. That isn't really the most important thing here though, its the cretins in India and their maniacal ways.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Can people please stop holding Lambert up as some kid Icarus who had his wings cruelly clipped by Venkys? There is more to his time here than meets the eye, from both sides. I suspect he left here because he sniffed something better elsewhere. 

[AllRoverAsia]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Can people please stop holding Lambert up as some kid Icarus who had his wings cruelly clipped by Venkys? There is more to his time here than meets the eye, from both sides. I suspect he left here because he sniffed something better elsewhere. 

Something was not right about the Lambert period.

Rhodes sold, Venky's out of contact, Lambert uses pre-arranged walkaway clause. He actually worked his notice period......

[JHRover]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Can people please stop holding Lambert up as some kid Icarus who had his wings cruelly clipped by Venkys? There is more to his time here than meets the eye, from both sides. I suspect he left here because he sniffed something better elsewhere. 

I'm not holding him up as anything.

All I'm saying is we've seen this before. New manager comes in, starts to talk sense and put plans in place, signs a few players, people praise the new approach and refreshing straight talking in the press.

Whether you liked Lambert's style or whatever, the fact remains that the initial optimism was misplaced and it soon ended in disaster. I'd suggest blaming anyone other than the Indians is foolish. Have they learnt lessons from that episode? Lets see.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

So why is that better than Lambert saying he wanted to target promotion and nothing less was good enough?

Do you not think Lambert was signing players to fit within his structure (selling Rhodes, signing Graham) until they did the dirty on him?

I enjoy listening to Mowbray also. A good man, clearly loves his football. That isn't really the most important thing here though, its the cretins in India and their maniacal ways.

Yes Lambert did say those things but his results never backed that us. Yeas he did have a plan for the season after but from really day 1 Lambert never trusted Venkys one day to keep those promises and Possible Venkys got fed up with his public outbursts. so going their separate ways were always going to happen. Just like at Wolves aswell,

I'm not sure on Lambert and his style of football tbh. Looking back now did we really have a style of play. Bringing in Graham and Bennett was a good move but loan signings of Grimes, Gomez didn't work most of the time, But we are 12 months on from Lambert time here.

JH, Mowbray went to India and got their trust and also got the backing for his plan, changes in coaching staff and buying players. Mowbray signed a new contract aswell.

He talks about winning promotion, working hard, I've listened to Dack and Gladwin interviews about their thoughts on Mowbray and the way he talks about football

[Boz]

He spoke of the 4 new permanent signings, Whiitingham, Smallwood, Dack & Gladwin. Commented about wary of suggestion that signing League 1 players might  mean that he is settling for such standard of players, which he is not. 

A couple offers pending, one for a striker.  He wants cover at right and left back. He needs 80 goals if Rovers are to be promoted, Graham 20 to 25, plus a similar total amount from midfield and then also set piece defenders goals, means that he definitely requires another striker for a similar 20 goal tally.

Chatted about the recruitment process, Tommy Johnson chief scout and being away only back touching base with him only once a week, he'd  also like to have a team of young interns, Sports Science, each looking at  the analytics from specific leagues, for example French 2nd tier league, knowing the league inside out and highlighting the best right back for example, TM speaking with them each afternoon about players that might be a good fit and who he should be looking at. So Chaddy at al, send him your FIFA and Football manager CV.

[chaddyrovers]

Pleased about Mowbray and him talking about the recruitment and scouting process. Give fans a really good in depth into the club and what Mowbray wants to do

[tomphil]

Some interesting stuff there from TM and sounds like a man who knows how to set up a backroom to operate maybe how the loons want it to be run. Touch of the big Sam in his ideas so i really hope these clowns back him 110% on everything not just token stuff there's a real chance to rebuild here.

He's a man with a long term plan similar maybe to GB but with more clout and idea how to go about it hopefully, i.e results first player development and value increasing second. 

Let's  be honest both Lambert and Coyle were chancers albeit for different reasons and both wanted to rinse what they could whilst it lasted. One was always going to scoot unless he got massive backing and the other was always going to get sacked because he's crap and he knows it.

We have a real manager suited to the job at last.

[AllRoverAsia]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Pleased about Mowbray and him talking about the recruitment and scouting process. Give fans a really good in depth into the club and what Mowbray wants to do

It sounds like the sort of TM session that the Club should put out as audio or transcript as good PR for all fans to access.

Thanks to Speedie Dived and Boz for sharing