[Archived] Transfers Part 2

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

Feels different? Why because we've plunged yet another league for the first time in the third division in 40 years?! I'd expect to play with ten men this year and still win most games, it's not as if it could really get much worse. As it is I think we will finish second this year. 

only difference for me is Mowbray talking a good game but let's see how he does it's a big season for the club and bigger one for him. Let's face it he's got all too prove now. No other club would touch him.

But it does "feel" different in terms of transfers....so far! You have to "get" why some fans are saying that..

And yes, this relegation was so predictable and unforgivable.

 

[tomphil]

9 hours ago, JayPeeBee40 said:

My stance is this.. My number one wish is venkys get it right and back our manager and club.. My number 2 is Venkys sell up to someone who will..

 

That's it.

Why wouldn't your number 1 wish be Venkys leave immediately and someone who cares steps in whatever level we are at ?

[Dunnfc]

2 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

But it does "feel" different in terms of transfers....so far! You have to "get" why some fans are saying that..

And yes, this relegation was so predictable and unforgivable.

 

Feels different it certainly does wow we are now spending 500-700k on Dack 250k on Baldwin. Given we've lost roughly 125-150k of the wage bill per week, then it's six maybe seven weeks of wages saved on transfer fees. Equally I see Nixon now says Venkys wouldn't sanction McMahon wages. I think this is our lot this summer with probably 2 loans to come in later this month.

7 years ago we'd just spent 6million on a Kalinic, 3.5 on a Givet. Excuse me if I don't get excited as when I see Bournemouth spending 20 on Ake or Hanley playing at Newcastle these are things what would happen to us without venkys. Scrapping the barrel to sign Dack and Baldwin with change isn't something I particularly feel good about its the bare minimum I'd expect us to do in this situation and even more so a reflection of the level we've been dragged down too.

Too many pinning hope on Mowbray and co and whilst I can't see anyone who could fail with this squad the very fact we've had two relegations  reduced to the third tier yet people have hope is completely barmy

[tomphil]

They throw us a bone every now and again then get back to their number crunching and syphoning the main corp. Simple as that and i'll stake anything the outgoing transfer fees this summer are recouped.

[Dunnfc]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

They throw us a bone every now and again then get back to their number crunching and syphoning the main corp. Simple as that and i'll stake anything the outgoing transfer fees this summer are recouped.

40 million sold in two years and sell on fees recouped.

250k on Williams same on Gladwin and 750k on Dack.! A total of 1.25million.

 

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

40 million sold in two years and sell on fees recouped.

250k on Williams same on Gladwin and 750k on Dack.! A total of 1.25million.

 

We can look forwards to the spending spree continuing then, plenty left to go at surely !!!!

[Leonard Venkhater]

26 minutes ago, tomphil said:

They throw us a bone every now and again then get back to their number crunching and syphoning the main corp. Simple as that and i'll stake anything the outgoing transfer fees this summer are recouped.

I agree.

There does seem to be a pattern of them doing just enough/something almost positive/ less negative,  to manage away the dissent-to quell the flames.

In my David Vincent moments, I actually see a careful, gradual, 7 year management process to acclimatise  an ever reducing fanbase to a much poorer product and much lower expectations. A friend, who made this point last night was dismissed as completely paranoid!

Gradual reduction would be key. Imagine if they had brought us to this abyss within the first two years! A few more protesters, then...

[AllRoverAsia]

7 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I agree.

There does seem to be a pattern of them doing just enough/something almost positive/ less negative,  to manage away the dissent-to quell the flames.

In my David Vincent moments, I actually see a careful, gradual 7 year management process to acclimatise  an ever reducing fanbase to a much poorer product and much lower expectations. A friend , who made this point last night was dismissed as completely paranoid!

Gradual reduction would be key. Imagine if they had brought us to this abyss within the first  two tears! A few more protesters, then...

I was just a few moments ago thinking the same as your friend.

Asset stripping in motion at all times with Bowyer, then Lambert and now Mowbray spoon fed to the fans as feel-good scraps.

I predict that the owners will make a profit over this window. No need to look over 2 years.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I was just a few moments ago thinking the same as your friend.

Asset stripping in motion at all times with Bowyer, then Lambert and now Mowbray spoon fed to the fans as feel-good scraps.

I predict that the owners will make a profit over this window. No need to look over 2 years.

I am afraid your last but one sentence will prove correct....we will know soon enough.

[blueboy3333]

57 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Transfer policy is one of the key indicators of the owners' agenda for our club, so, guess what-ownership comes up in a transfer thread!

So what is the 'owners agenda' when we're spending money and not (yet) selling anybody? Should we be coming on here to praise the Venksters? Or should we just leave this thread to people who want to discuss transfers and still have an interest in going to Ewood? Seriously, go and start another thread, call it 'Venky's transfer agenda' and then crack on with the board members who want to contribute. It's a big forum, plenty of room for everyone to go to a thread they enjoy. Sound like a plan?

[Stuart]

24 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I agree.

There does seem to be a pattern of them doing just enough/something almost positive/ less negative,  to manage away the dissent-to quell the flames.

In my David Vincent moments, I actually see a careful, gradual, 7 year management process to acclimatise  an ever reducing fanbase to a much poorer product and much lower expectations. A friend, who made this point last night was dismissed as completely paranoid!

Gradual reduction would be key. Imagine if they had brought us to this abyss within the first two years! A few more protesters, then...

Whether people think it or not, that's exactly what has happened.

In fact, fast acclimatisation to the new lesser Rovers (at each step) is seen as a badge of honour. Shouting down anyone who provides a realistic narrative to recent events is applauded and embraced by the "I'm a better fan than you crowd". For those who don't believe me, take a look at The Rovers Facebook page (for example). The 'abuse' thrown out by the "RTID mob" is disgusting.

[DE.]

It's interesting that people think our current activity feels "different".

How different from when Bowyer was signing the likes of Duffy, Cairney, Evans, etc? What happened next?

Just feels like the start of another cycle to me. I wasn't suckered in then and I won't be now.

[Leonard Venkhater]

10 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

So what is the 'owners agenda' when we're spending money and not (yet) selling anybody? Should we be coming on here to praise the Venksters? Or should we just leave this thread to people who want to discuss transfers and still have an interest in going to Ewood? Seriously, go and start another thread, call it 'Venky's transfer agenda' and then crack on with the board members who want to contribute. It's a big forum, plenty of room for everyone to go to a thread they enjoy. Sound like a plan?

Just skip the posts you don't want to read. That's what I do.

Anyway, it is all interconnected...

[Norbert Rassragr]

For what it is worth, I was at my Cov City friend's birthday party last night and he was impressed with the signing of Dack, saying he's a goal machine.So hopefully he is actually good.

 

And anyone praising Venkys for backing Tony needs to have a word with themselves. Prior to the signings we barely had enough players to make a matchday squad, we've sold many millions of pounds worth of players since 2010, and we are in League 1. We were an established Premier league team with a Champions League winner when the Indian ___s bought the club. A few pennies spent on league 1 players does not excuse the debts, the relegations and the money disappearing into agent's pockets or wherever. It's like praising Josef Fritzl for buying nice furniture for his daughter's dungeon.

[islander200]

1 hour ago, Dunnfc said:

Feels different it certainly does wow we are now spending 500-700k on Dack 250k on Baldwin. Given we've lost roughly 125-150k of the wage bill per week, then it's six maybe seven weeks of wages saved on transfer fees. Equally I see Nixon now says Venkys wouldn't sanction McMahon wages. I think this is our lot this summer with probably 2 loans to come in later this month.

7 years ago we'd just spent 6million on a Kalinic, 3.5 on a Givet. Excuse me if I don't get excited as when I see Bournemouth spending 20 on Ake or Hanley playing at Newcastle these are things what would happen to us without venkys. Scrapping the barrel to sign Dack and Baldwin with change isn't something I particularly feel good about its the bare minimum I'd expect us to do in this situation and even more so a reflection of the level we've been dragged down too.

Too many pinning hope on Mowbray and co and whilst I can't see anyone who could fail with this squad the very fact we've had two relegations  reduced to the third tier yet people have hope is completely barmy

I'm reading Nixon's Twitter feed and I can't see where he said Venkys wouldn't sanction Tue wages for McMahon?

Nixon doesn't know what is going on at rovers..like I said he laughed off the Dack signing and hasn't broke any of our signings this summer

[tomphil]

It's mainly just the small influx of newbies we get every summer telling us this is it times have changed Vs are investing everything is great please buy some season tickets. Pound to a penny they'll disappear if the team is struggling, pop back when we win a few then gone completely by Christmas if we aren't in top 6 never to be seen again until next summer under even dafter user names.

Like everything in this present era we've seen and heard it all before. Actions are the only thing that matters so lets see if the window slams shut with a few more incomings and maybe only one or two 'off the wage bill' outgoings.

Striker, Big centre half and pacey winger in before then please if we are serious. Even if they are on loan hell even Coyle managed 2 of those.

[JHRover]

18 minutes ago, DE. said:

It's interesting that people think our current activity feels "different".

How different from when Bowyer was signing the likes of Duffy, Cairney, Evans, etc? What happened next?

Just feels like the start of another cycle to me. I wasn't suckered in then and I won't be now.

This is the point I've been trying to make over the last week or so. 

Is this really 'new territory' or are they just repeating a cycle that we have seen before? The only thing that will prove it is the longer term, but for now I'm going with caution and treating the whole thing with suspicion and doubt. 

There's a big difference between being dubious about these owners and their behaviour and then being negative about the team/club. For the record I like Mowbray, I like how he comes across, I liked the effort he put in last year to try and keep us up, I like the look of the signings made so far, I've got my season ticket and will be doing all the away games again, I'll be hoping more than anything that Mowbray can turn this around and get us back up at the first attempt. That doesn't mean I have to believe that things are suddenly completely different and that Mowbray has managed to do what nobody else has and get Venkys to change their ways.

You mention the initial Bowyer period. He was handed money from Venkys and he set about rebuilding the squad with top end Championship quality players that would retain or increase their value for the club. For whatever reason after a couple of years Venkys made the decision to wreck all that and we've ended up a league lower with no players of serious value and about 13 players under contract at the club. 

Now it seems they are putting their faith in Mowbray, but how long will it last, and what's to say that 2-3 years from now we won't be in League 2 with no players left on the books?

[Leonard Venkhater]

27 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

For what it is worth, I was at my Cov City friend's birthday party last night and he was impressed with the signing of Dack, saying he's a goal machine.So hopefully he is actually good.

 

And anyone praising Venkys for backing Tony needs to have a word with themselves. Prior to the signings we barely had enough players to make a matchday squad, we've sold many millions of pounds worth of players since 2010, and we are in League 1. We were an established Premier league team with a Champions League winner when the Indian ___s bought the club. A few pennies spent on league 1 players does not excuse the debts, the relegations and the money disappearing into agent's pockets or wherever. It's like praising Josef Fritzl for buying nice furniture for his daughter's dungeon.

That image will stay with me!

[tomphil]

In the process of wrecking that they drew in over 30 million of incoming fees so I think that's the main point. Where ever that money went or whatever it was used/needed for there's every reason to expect they see a repeat process appealing.

Albeit to a lesser extent given the division and players but we want to see promotion being the main aim not the growing of another team including a few bought prospects, freebies and youth ready to dismantle again in 18 months. The football is a side issue I feel. don't think they relegated us purposely but it didn't really matter as now a new opportunity to rebuild on much cheaper contracts presents itself, right up their street that is.

Refreshing to see mostly younger hungry players coming in but it needs to be for the right reasons not just for another vulture feed in a year or twos time regardless of promotion or not.

Just ask yourselves who benefits from these repeat processes on player/manager/coach turnover ?

The shadows that's who.

[AllRoverAsia]

33 minutes ago, JHRover said:

This is the point I've been trying to make over the last week or so. 

Is this really 'new territory' or are they just repeating a cycle that we have seen before? The only thing that will prove it is the longer term, but for now I'm going with caution and treating the whole thing with suspicion and doubt. 

There's a big difference between being dubious about these owners and their behaviour and then being negative about the team/club. For the record I like Mowbray, I like how he comes across, I liked the effort he put in last year to try and keep us up, I like the look of the signings made so far, I've got my season ticket and will be doing all the away games again, I'll be hoping more than anything that Mowbray can turn this around and get us back up at the first attempt. That doesn't mean I have to believe that things are suddenly completely different and that Mowbray has managed to do what nobody else has and get Venkys to change their ways.

You mention the initial Bowyer period. He was handed money from Venkys and he set about rebuilding the squad with top end Championship quality players that would retain or increase their value for the club. For whatever reason after a couple of years Venkys made the decision to wreck all that and we've ended up a league lower with no players of serious value and about 13 players under contract at the club. 

Now it seems they are putting their faith in Mowbray, but how long will it last, and what's to say that 2-3 years from now we won't be in League 2 with no players left on the books?

Currently we have 31 players on professional contracts at the Club.

19 are currently  'first 11' material but this number includes 2 keepers, the 4 recent signings and 2 with little first eleven matchtime experience (Tomlinson and Wharton).

The other 12 are Development Squad now on professional contracts.

So two points:

* The 19 figure needs beefing up with experience and pace at fullback(s), toughtype CB,  wide player(s) and striker(s). This may/will change based on outgoings, which imo are a certainty.

* We will have a load of Chicks for sale over rhe next year or so. Therefore there will be a lot of first team blooding of these youngsters next season.

[rhodie]

19 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Does the LT article referenced there mention anywhere that we are about to sign two strikers?? 

Says we have put offers in and should know in a couple of days if they have been accepted.

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I was just a few moments ago thinking the same as your friend.

Asset stripping in motion at all times with Bowyer, then Lambert and now Mowbray spoon fed to the fans as feel-good scraps.

I predict that the owners will make a profit over this window. No need to look over 2 years.

They already are technically anyway. Around 150k pw off the wage bill, thats 600k per month saved or 7 mil per year. Take the transfer fees and wages of the new players out of that and they are still a lot better off than they were. This illusion of spending money and funding a promotion push is all it is - an illusion.

A much better distribution of the wages - for sure - but a much smaller squad at the same time. Lets not confuse this with them putting their hands in their pockets though. I still expect at least one outgoing for a fee as well.

[Stuart]

55 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It's mainly just the small influx of newbies we get every summer telling us this is it times have changed Vs are investing everything is great please buy some season tickets. Pound to a penny they'll disappear if the team is struggling, pop back when we win a few then gone completely by Christmas if we aren't in top 6 never to be seen again until next summer under even dafter user names.

Like everything in this present era we've seen and heard it all before. Actions are the only thing that matters so lets see if the window slams shut with a few more incomings and maybe only one or two 'off the wage bill' outgoings.

Striker, Big centre half and pacey winger in before then please if we are serious. Even if they are on loan hell even Coyle managed 2 of those.

All good points. 

What our squad looks like at the end of the transfer window will speak volumes.

Of course, by that point, those players leaving will all be "arrogant", "mercenaries", and "we are better of without them - RTID". It's already started with Mahoney.

If the owners 'fend off' approaches for our better players then it might be a sign of intent. If 'we tried but couldn't match offers from other clubs' then it's the same old, and will show hat we remain on our own. We've not had a season under the Raos where our transfer spend has bested our income. Let's see if they really are backing Mowbray, as this recent flurry of post-Pune-visit implies or if it is just a ruse because of the season ticket deadline. After all, we may have ageeed a whack for Dack but I don't expect much cash will have changed hands up front.

[RoverCanada]

22 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

They already are technically anyway. Around 150k pw off the wage bill, thats 600k per month saved or 7 mil per year. Take the transfer fees and wages of the new players out of that and they are still a lot better off than they were. This illusion of spending money and funding a promotion push is all it is - an illusion.

A much better distribution of the wages - for sure - but a much smaller squad at the same time. Lets not confuse this with them putting their hands in their pockets though. I still expect at least one outgoing for a fee as well.

While I fully agree Venky's spending £750k on Dack, a free+add-ons for Gladwin, and signing a couple frees on decent League 1 wages isn't all that much to really cheer about (the losses are still likely there, just at a much smaller scale - losing £3-5M in League 1 stands out by League 1 standards but it's pretty much the absolute minimum for Championship clubs), but you can't ignore our turnover has also taken a dramatic hit of late due to the end of parachute payments and the revenue drop from relegation again.

Two years ago Championship clubs without parachute payments get roughly £5m in broadcast revenue. I think it's slightly higher now. For a League 1 club, it looks like that'll total just over £1m. Commercial and gate revenue are bound to drop as well.

Net cuts were bound to happen after another relegation (hence why relegation clauses exist...), no matter who the owners are. (And I also wouldn't be surprised if we see an outgoing before the end of the window, but again, pretty typical for a relegated club to lose one of its better players...)

I don't quite get how they are 'better off' considering our turnover is hitting a new low. I'd be quite surprised if we turn anything close to a profit...

[Dunnfc]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

I'm reading Nixon's Twitter feed and I can't see where he said Venkys wouldn't sanction Tue wages for McMahon?

Nixon doesn't know what is going on at rovers..like I said he laughed off the Dack signing and hasn't broke any of our signings this summer

Season tickets almost sold, Let the Venkys game begin.