[Archived] Transfers Part 2

[gazsimm]

Anybody who say's Whittingham for a league 1 club is a bad signing is seriously just talking BS. on Lambert, doubt he would start over Graham anyway but still could do a good job in league 1 I reckon

I have said it before if we can keep hold of the current squad we have a great chance of getting out this league next season. 

[Dunnfc]

8 minutes ago, gazsimm said:

Anybody who say's Whittingham for a league 1 club is a bad signing is seriously just talking BS. on Lambert, doubt he would start over Graham anyway but still could do a good job in league 1 I reckon

I have said it before if we can keep hold of the current squad we have a great chance of getting out this league next season. 

People are not exactly debating about Whittingham in isolation more the generalisation of target players and respective ages.

[Mullionvagrant]

22 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

how it went last time with Etuhu, Murphy, Orr all recruited on the wrong side of 30

Gordon Cowans

Kevin Moran

Mark Hughes

Ozzy 

etc.

Age is not always a bad thing if a decent wage structure is in place. There is definitely a place for a Gordan Cowans or a Kevin Moran style signing   in the Rovers squad this year. admittedly this is definitely not a player in the Murphy Mold/wage structure/contract.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Dunnfc said:

Lambert Whittingham agnonlahor and McMahon.

poor poor poor

We only signed Whittingham tbo

1 hour ago, Dunnfc said:

What are you even on about biz? Have you been in the sun to long today? I've no agenda about Mowbray so I'm not sure where that has come from.

The concept of signing and targeting past it or aged players is as I've pointed out previously. I appreciate that may be beyond your ability to comprehend somewhat.

No agenda against Mowbray? Really?

You were saying that this media reports that Mowbray didnt go to India were lies and not true. But you were proved wrong cos Mowbray confirmed to fans at Q and A that he did go to India and met with all of the owners

19 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

Of course they on the face of premonition appear poor (Record/Form Wise), not well thought out (Life-Cycle Cost Wise), quantity of bodies at a particular age (Lack of Re-sale/Ability to Improve). I don’t believe I’ve changed my contestation on this.

That is why I question both Mowbray’s policy on recruitment, I doubt these were the idealic signings Senior identified on his “B” list and as such we appear to be recruiting with a scattar gun approach.

I think we know collectively all too well how it went last time with Etuhu, Murphy, Orr all recruited on the wrong side of 30 and as such set aside onerous provisions in the accounts to the tune of 6.5 million just to pay these off and Best which itself was only concluded and fully realised in the YE 30th June 2016.

The quantity of bodies we require to come through the door is disproportionately high by normal standards simply because of previous window mistakes and I include now having to possibly sign yet another body to replace Stokes because Mowbray appears not to be able to get the best out of him.

Futhermore by targeting the likes of Lambert, Whittingham, McMahon, Agbonlahor these are players on the way down suffering either alarming drop offs in form or simply surplus to requirements elsewhere because of age/fitness issues etc. It also presents a challenging situation as half of these types of players require much more than a sign on fee and agents fee (Usually higher for these types), a one year deal, more than a perceived L1 wage and as a result attract higher on-costs such as NI Securities, Pensions, loyalty sums, Wages and the opportunity to remains surplus upon promotion giving us an Murphy & Co Mk2 scenario with more pay offs or being unable to shift them from the wage bill preventing future playing trading in the Championship without killing the wage bill structures.  

That’s why you target in short a sporadic variety, maybe one or two experienced, maybe one or two from a previous club to help impose your personality on the squad but equally target promising players who can rise in value, better in ability year on year resulting in less signings in the future being required as they can transition and make the step up so no larger wages, agent/sign on fees etc. That is a sustainable transfer policy at our level and similar to what PNE and Barnsley have done at in L1 not long ago.

I personally don’t feel the above is too difficult to comprehend nor shade away from reality in fact quite the opposite it highlights how disproportionate your own argument is however I'll put it down to the fact your engaged 8hrs a day telling children to put fingers on the lips whilst you project your own voice.

Scatter Gun approach? Really?

We signed 4 players..1 in his 30's.and 3 under 27 years old

No player has been given Best or Etuhu type deals

Targeting promising players? Havent we done this by signing Dack and Gladwin?

[chaddyrovers]

I would be happy if did sign Marquis from Doncaster

[JayPeeBee40]

1 hour ago, HowieFive0 said:

Quite easy on here to mis interpret quick short replies ..all done it ..even Saxo !

Who's that?

[Dunnfc]

14 minutes ago, Mullionvagrant said:

Gordon Cowans

Kevin Moran

Mark Hughes

Ozzy 

etc.

Age is not always a bad thing if a decent wage structure is in place. There is definitely a place for a Gordan Cowans or a Kevin Moran style signing   in the Rovers squad this year. admittedly this is definitely not a player in the Murphy Mold/wage structure/contract.

 

 

 

You've just argued my point well! All players in different era/years. It's also in relation to Cowans etc not entirely relevant to how a club should be operating in today's market. Costs are completely different such as our infrastructure to maintain whilst player salaries far outweigh turnover which wasn't to prevelent in those eras. I accept Hughes but back then the club didn't have the issues and struggles it has now.

[Tom]

It's now at the stage of pre season that we criticise the manager / club for targeting poor player (that we may not actually be targeting) 

Then complain further that we fail to sign those players that we may never have wanted m in the first place!

Bring back football 

[Dunnfc]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We only signed Whittingham tbo

No agenda against Mowbray? Really?

You were saying that this media reports that Mowbray didnt go to India were lies and not true. But you were proved wrong cos Mowbray confirmed to fans at Q and A that he did go to India and met with all of the owners

Scatter Gun approach? Really?

We signed 4 players..1 in his 30's.and 3 under 27 years old

No player has been given Best or Etuhu type deals

Targeting promising players? Havent we done this by signing Dack and Gladwin?

Oh because Tony said it that it must be true, unfortunately the LT are not so sure nor am I so at the moment we only have TMs word. I find it odd that he says nothing about the trip, nothing what they said, no message relayed to the fans. Did you go to the qanda I noticed you don't usually attend these things? No agenda at all on Mowbray you keep pushing this on little substance either come out with it or tow the line as opposed to these nonsical suggestions concerning TM. Personally I'm open minded about him, not disappointed not particularly enamoured with him. I feel he's allot to prove.

Your missing my point entirely I mentioned the scatter gun and aforementioned targets all of whom appear over 30. I also mentioned why I felt signing or targeting these types is not sustainable.

Dack is the player with potential as I stated at the time, Gladwin? Nah average. Squad filler/depth.

[gazsimm]

47 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

People are not exactly debating about Whittingham in isolation more the generalisation of target players and respective ages.

We have a good mixture of young players and experience players, just don't get all the slagging off when a ball as not even been kicked yet. By the way looks like Lambert deal is not happening maybe TM has convinced Rooney to join us instead or is he over the hill!!

[chaddyrovers]

26 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

Oh because Tony said it that it must be true, unfortunately the LT are not so sure nor am I so at the moment we only have TMs word. I find it odd that he says nothing about the trip, nothing what they said, no message relayed to the fans. Did you go to the qanda I noticed you don't usually attend these things? No agenda at all on Mowbray you keep pushing this on little substance either come out with it or tow the line as opposed to these nonsical suggestions concerning TM. Personally I'm open minded about him, not disappointed not particularly enamoured with him. I feel he's allot to prove.

Your missing my point entirely I mentioned the scatter gun and aforementioned targets all of whom appear over 30. I also mentioned why I felt signing or targeting these types is not sustainable.

Dack is the player with potential as I stated at the time, Gladwin? Nah average. Squad filler/depth.

You have claimed to have met Mowbray a couple of times. I have only met him once. It was about a minute. But spoke with Passion and Honest. 

I have no reason to not believe that Mowbray would lie about the India trip. He went to India and met the owners. Tell you accept this and stop this witch hunt which no have nothing to back up your claims. 

Mowbray did come out with comments about his trip. I did post the link of his BBC Lancs interview after the meeting. 

Qanda meeting?

I only seen 2 links with players over 30's. Seem to be alot of work going on in the back ground regarding signings and nothing in the public domain. 

[AllRoverAsia]

Mowbray travelled out to India on 22 May.(Venkygraph aka LT)

Meeting(s) results reported on 23 May (Rovers website and Audioboom).

Yes, that is 4 days and plenty of time for 3 or 4 meetings with all the owners.

Nothing at all to question here.

[JayPeeBee40]

I swear a percentage of our fans believe the Roswell incident was real..

[Parsonblue]

14 minutes ago, JayPeeBee40 said:

I swear a percentage of our fans believe the Roswell incident was real..

I thought you would have realised by now that it's all part of the world conspiracy targeted at Blackburn Rovers. 

[Dunnfc]

3 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I thought you would have realised by now that it's all part of the world conspiracy targeted at Blackburn Rovers. 

When this club was abused in the way it was under these owners with legal agreements held in back waters confirming agents having the power to run the club trade managers, players etc then it goes beyond conspiracy theories, they've been proven and since then everyone has a Devine right to be sceptical of anything coming out of Ewood. You should have more respect for your fellow supporters whom are not so easily whitewashed and express concern or opinion which may not be in agreement with your good self.

[Bigdoggsteel]

25 minutes ago, JayPeeBee40 said:

I swear a percentage of our fans believe the Roswell incident was real..

It was

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, Dunnfc said:

Of course they on the face of premonition appear poor (Record/Form Wise), not well thought out (Life-Cycle Cost Wise), quantity of bodies at a particular age (Lack of Re-sale/Ability to Improve). I don’t believe I’ve changed my contestation on this.

However as insinuated previously you need a particular blend of types for a “balanced” squad. That may include signing one or two more experienced players however given we have Mulgrew, Graham, Ward and Feeney all on the wrong side of 30 already then it’s surely not permissible nor strategically astute mid-long term to pack the squad with much more of these types. That is why I question both Mowbray’s policy on recruitment, I doubt these were the idealic signings Senior identified on his “B” list and as such we appear to be recruiting with a scattar gun approach.

I think we know collectively all too well how it went last time with Etuhu, Murphy, Orr all recruited on the wrong side of 30 and as such set aside onerous provisions in the accounts to the tune of 6.5 million just to pay these off and Best which itself was only concluded and fully realised in the YE 30th June 2016.

The quantity of bodies we require to come through the door is disproportionately high by normal standards simply because of previous window mistakes and I include now having to possibly sign yet another body to replace Stokes because Mowbray appears not to be able to get the best out of him.

Futhermore by targeting the likes of Lambert, Whittingham, McMahon, Agbonlahor these are players on the way down suffering either alarming drop offs in form or simply surplus to requirements elsewhere because of age/fitness issues etc. It also presents a challenging situation as half of these types of players require much more than a sign on fee and agents fee (Usually higher for these types), a one year deal, more than a perceived L1 wage and as a result attract higher on-costs such as NI Securities, Pensions, loyalty sums, Wages and the opportunity to remains surplus upon promotion giving us an Murphy & Co Mk2 scenario with more pay offs or being unable to shift them from the wage bill preventing future playing trading in the Championship without killing the wage bill structures.  

That’s why you target in short a sporadic variety, maybe one or two experienced, maybe one or two from a previous club to help impose your personality on the squad but equally target promising players who can rise in value, better in ability year on year resulting in less signings in the future being required as they can transition and make the step up so no larger wages, agent/sign on fees etc. That is a sustainable transfer policy at our level and similar to what PNE and Barnsley have done at in L1 not long ago.

I personally don’t feel the above is too difficult to comprehend nor shade away from reality in fact quite the opposite it highlights how disproportionate your own argument is however I'll put it down to the fact your engaged 8hrs a day telling children to put fingers on the lips whilst you project your own voice.

Must've touched a nerve because you changed font  

Firstly, I'm not arguing the accountancy part because it's not exactly public knowledge what our players earn.

Secondly, I am aware of the pitfalls of building a  squad of a certain average age - whether that's too low or high. None of us could have faith after what's gone on, but you said it yourself - Tony is someone we can sense has the best interests at heart. In isolation from the roas, I have faith in him and his decisions. I surely ain't going to start throwing jibes around because agents are linking us to players.

Thirdly, your examples are of a time when we had an obvious criminal element involved, Murphy, Etuhu and whoever else on thousands a week. That was obviously different to signing someone on a short contract at 33/34.

Lastly, I'm not sure you could describe Whittingham as someone "dropping" off, but ultimately- what did you expect league one to bring? Did you expect us to be signing players for big sums, on big contracts or beating championship/lower prem to loans? 

Oh, and as an engaging teacher- I don't want or need to ask for silence in my lessons... unless I am teaching them about John Cage and the 4,33..  

[had.e.nuff]

6 hours ago, JayPeeBee40 said:

Nowt wrong with Plymouth, good drive out, speedie hattrick, all good..

saw  ossie ardiles short debut there he got kicked off the park by andy morrison if i remember correctly

[Skiptonrover]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

Whittingham is a fantastic signing. Lambert would be a poor one imo. Nothing to do with age, really, purely down to how effective they are likely to be. Whittingham was still playing very well for Cardiff last season in the league above, Lambert meanwhile has been on a sharp decline which is very unlikely to be arrested at this point. Since 2014 he's scored 7 goals in 63 apps according to wiki. I appreciate we do seem to love bringing in strikers who don't score goals, but I hope we have better targets in mind than Lambert. 

Don't think lambert would have been a good idea or prolific but he would have been a aerial threat & a big unit when you are seeing a 1 nil out running to the corner flag holding the ball up generally wasting time. Sometimes you need that kind of player. 

[Rochdale Blue]

14 minutes ago, had.e.nuff said:

saw  ossie ardiles short debut there he got kicked off the park by andy morrison if i remember correctly

Nicky Marker

[JayPeeBee40]

53 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

When this club was abused in the way it was under these owners with legal agreements held in back waters confirming agents having the power to run the club trade managers, players etc then it goes beyond conspiracy theories, they've been proven and since then everyone has a Devine right to be sceptical of anything coming out of Ewood. You should have more respect for your fellow supporters whom are not so easily whitewashed and express concern or opinion which may not be in agreement with your good self.

Peter? 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Mowbray travelled out to India on 22 May.(Venkygraph aka LT)

Meeting(s) results reported on 23 May (Rovers website and Audioboom).

Yes, that is 4 days and plenty of time for 3 or 4 meetings with all the owners.

Nothing at all to question here.

Who mention 4 days?

 

[Stuart]

Lovely to see that Parson now has a second groupie. One more and we get to call you a cliqué.

Anywho...

Is Lambert in or out? The transfers to date seem to have been done very quickly with little fanfare and the twee 5 minute warning tweets actually being useful.

Are we now into the phase of being linked with 'name' players to keep fans interested with no actual money or talks?

Funny thing is, for some people, every player we sign is a great signing and everyone we miss (or leaves) is a greedy mercenary. Blue and white goggles must be on offer when you buy your season ticket in the shop. Somebody actually said to me this morning that Mahoney had clearly left for the money having taken such a backward step! You have to wonder what they are putting in the water supply in some parts of Blackburn.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Lovely to see that Parson now has a second groupie. One more and we get to call you a cliqué.

Anywho...

Is Lambert in or out? The transfers to date seem to have been done very quickly with little fanfare and the twee 5 minute warning tweets actually being useful.

Are we now into the phase of being linked with 'name' players to keep fans interested with no actual money or talks?

Funny thing is, for some people, every player we sign is a great signing and everyone we miss (or leaves) is a greedy mercenary. Blue and white goggles must be on offer when you buy your season ticket in the shop. Somebody actually said to me this morning that Mahoney had clearly left for the money having taken such a backward step! You have to wonder what they are putting in the water supply in some parts of Blackburn.

And in some fans eyes every signing we make is the incorrect one, while the players we miss out on are going to go on to great things. 

[Skiptonrover]

Emerson Boyce? On a pay as you play deal. Free agent.