[Archived] 9.30Pm Tonight - New Social Media Hashtag

[donnermeat]

  On 22/08/2016 at 12:53, Exiled in Toronto said:

I respectfully disagree. The news that Heidi Blake has looked at all the leaked documents and said there is no evidence of illegality means that we don't have any meaningful issues to highlight. And highlight to who to achieve what? Evidence of illegality and a massive press exposé might have worked but it seems we don't have the former so will never get the latter.

I believe the Heidi news is more than a setback; to me it signals the need for a complete strategic rethink. Anderson WAS given a remit by Venky's to play a big role in running the club, The contracts given out like confetti were self-serving and repugnant to fans, but it seems, signed legally. Unless we have clearly illegal ones to leak then it's a dead end.

Taken from the FA website. Not illegal, sure, but against FA rules.

A PROHIBITION ON THIRD PARTY INTEREST

Club Obligations

1. No Club may enter into an Agreement which enables any party, other than the Club itself,

to influence materially the Clubs policies or the performance of its teams or Players in

Matches and/or Competitions.

2. No Club may enter into an Agreement with a party whereby that Club:

makes or receives a payment, whether directly or indirectly, or

assigns, novates, sells, grants, acquires or otherwise transacts in any rights or

obligations whatsoever, or

incurs any liability

to, or from that party as a result of, in connection with, or in relation to

the proposed or actual registration (whether permanent or temporary), or

the transfer of registration, or

the employment or continued employment

by the Club of a player, save where:

2.1 the Agreement is permitted pursuant to Regulation B (Permitted Club Agreements); or

2.2 The Association has provided its formal written approval of the Agreement in advance

pursuant to Regulation D (Club or Player Agreements Requiring Prior Written Approval).

[DE.]

  On 22/08/2016 at 13:01, OJRovers said:

Isn't it against league rules to enter into such agreements with Agents? (i.e. give them power over transfers etc)

I get the feeling neither Blake nor her people really looked hard at what they were given, and if they did then it wasn't deemed a big enough story and pushed aside.

[mark1875]

  On 22/08/2016 at 13:14, donnermeat said:

Taken from the FA website. Not illegal, sure, but against FA rules.

A PROHIBITION ON THIRD PARTY INTEREST

Club Obligations

1. No Club may enter into an Agreement which enables any party, other than the Club itself,

to influence materially the Clubs policies or the performance of its teams or Players in

Matches and/or Competitions.

2. No Club may enter into an Agreement with a party whereby that Club:

makes or receives a payment, whether directly or indirectly, or

assigns, novates, sells, grants, acquires or otherwise transacts in any rights or

obligations whatsoever, or

incurs any liability

to, or from that party as a result of, in connection with, or in relation to

the proposed or actual registration (whether permanent or temporary), or

the transfer of registration, or

the employment or continued employment

by the Club of a player, save where:

2.1 the Agreement is permitted pursuant to Regulation B (Permitted Club Agreements); or

2.2 The Association has provided its formal written approval of the Agreement in advance

pursuant to Regulation D (Club or Player Agreements Requiring Prior Written Approval).

The authorities appear to be holding onto the fact that it wasn't Blackburn Rovers who entered into an agreement with an agency, it was the VH Group that entered into an agreement, where the agency would advise their client (VH Group) on what decisions the client should make about the football club. So ultimately the VH Group was making the decisions and not the Agency.

The solicitors letter now in the public domain is worded very cleverly to reflect that above.

Deep down we all know who was making the decisions, the authorities must know who were making the decisions, yet here we are.

[JHRover]

  On 22/08/2016 at 13:19, mark1875 said:

The authorities appear to be holding onto the fact that it wasn't Blackburn Rovers who entered into an agreement with an agency, it was the VH Group that entered into an agreement, where the agency would advise their client (VH Group) on what decisions the client should make about the football club. So ultimately the VH Group was making the decisions and not the Agency.

The solicitors letter now in the public domain is worded very cleverly to reflect that above.

Deep down we all know who was making the decisions, the authorities must know who were making the decisions, yet here we are.

Indeed. Given the amount of money being made out of this project those responsible for it getting off the ground would have ensured that the setup was watertight. Unfortunately, whilst the material that has emerged has confirmed a number of suspicions, it doesn't directly evidence any crime or breaking of the rules. These people would have made sure in advance that their a55es were covered when the truth emerged.

Also, pinning our hopes on the football authorities doing anything about it is optimistic to say the least. Even if there was concrete evidence of wrongdoing/criminality, lets remember that these people all sing from the same hymn sheet as each other. Who negotiates the TV deals for the FA?

The whole thing has been carefully structured so that whilst everyone knows who was/is pulling the strings at Rovers, legally/technically it was always Venkys acting on advice they paid for. Then when Allardyce got fired it was Desai who supposedly did the firing, same when Kean got the job. It was all very carefully put together. I've no doubt that the quotes from Desai were spoonfed from someone else and that they deliberately put her in the spotlight, even making a fool of her with some of the comments she made, to try and convince the world that she was the one making the decisions rather than being told to make them by someone else.

I remember the things she said about how impressed she was about Kean, about how he would do this and that, about how good a thinker he was. They weren't her words, they were someone else's, but they had to come out of her mouth to avoid suspicions about where the power actually lay at Ewood Park.

[USRoverME]

  On 22/08/2016 at 11:48, Iceman said:

well what now? I hope this is not a momentum breaker. I get the feeling the fans will soon take matters into their own hands.

I would hope folks thank her for looking in to it, at least., and she if she has ideas we can move onto. Just because its not in her wheelhouse doesnt mean she doesnt know someone else who might be willing to poke more...

[koi]

My gut feeling is that Crescendo is the key to all this.

Either way we can't get too hung up on the legalities; we might not ultimately prove illegal practices but we sure as hell can prove the immoral practices and the blind-eyes being turned right to the top of the game. It also adds to the weight that those other than the Sky Six just aren't of interest to anyone to anyone of making money from the game; Man Utd got more exposure for their 'fight' against the Glazers, and they were winning pots and making shed loads whilst the likes of us, Pompey, Charlton, Coventry, Blackpool etc battle for every column inch. The problem is the further down the leagues you go the less the authorities care.

[JHRover]

  On 22/08/2016 at 13:40, koi said:

My gut feeling is that Crescendo is the key to all this.

Either way we can't get too hung up on the legalities; we might not ultimately prove illegal practices but we sure as hell can prove the immoral practices and the blind-eyes being turned right to the top of the game. It also adds to the weight that those other than the Sky Six just aren't of interest to anyone to anyone of making money from the game; Man Utd got more exposure for their 'fight' against the Glazers, and they were winning pots and making shed loads whilst the likes of us, Pompey, Charlton, Coventry, Blackpool etc battle for every column inch. The problem is the further down the leagues you go the less the authorities care.

Until eventually you get down to non-league and they are quite happy to see clubs like Hereford and Darlington shut down and they don't even bat an eyelid.

[broadsword]

Will illegality ever be proved? I'm not sure.

Do we need to prove illegality in order to force a change of ownership? Hmmm ... also not sure.

If we had a clear strategy that guaranteed success, that would be one thing. As it is, we're just fumbling around in the dark hoping what we're doing is going to do it.

For all we know they might be gagging to get rid of us. Or they may be laughing at us, knowing that it's Worth their while to keep us for the next 50 years.

Without this knowledge, it's difficult.

[yoda]

  On 22/08/2016 at 13:40, koi said:

My gut feeling is that Crescendo is the key to all this.

Either way we can't get too hung up on the legalities; we might not ultimately prove illegal practices but we sure as hell can prove the immoral practices and the blind-eyes being turned right to the top of the game. It also adds to the weight that those other than the Sky Six just aren't of interest to anyone to anyone of making money from the game; Man Utd got more exposure for their 'fight' against the Glazers, and they were winning pots and making shed loads whilst the likes of us, Pompey, Charlton, Coventry, Blackpool etc battle for every column inch. The problem is the further down the leagues you go the less the authorities care.

Got to make it personal, the Rao's are getting off lightly while we target the Venky brand

[mhead]

Strategy Re-Set:

There is now no more money to be made from the Rovers , so all parties should be losing interest in us eg Crescendo;the Anderson family;keano;even the FA and EFL.

Only one purpose now is to stop the Venkys Hatcheries Group owning us, cos they have no fricking idea and the under-talented guys they appoint are juggling many balls at same time.

We need to make Cheston get fed up;keep the pressure on Koyley and create a stink for the Raos.BRAG-led?

Meanwhile the Trust needs to get ready,particularly with Seneca and other Millionaires/Investors.....maybe it needs part-time staff now funded by membership and would-be Rovers benefactors.The time for Community Grants and Away Travel support is over....direct action required. Willing to help/fund/support.

[Exiled in Toronto]

  On 22/08/2016 at 13:19, mark1875 said:

The authorities appear to be holding onto the fact that it wasn't Blackburn Rovers who entered into an agreement with an agency, it was the VH Group that entered into an agreement, where the agency would advise their client (VH Group) on what decisions the client should make about the football club. So ultimately the VH Group was making the decisions and not the Agency.

The solicitors letter now in the public domain is worded very cleverly to reflect that above.

Deep down we all know who was making the decisions, the authorities must know who were making the decisions, yet here we are.

Here we are indeed, at a dead end. Rules were circumvented but not broken. Contracts were structured to enrich the people signing them, but were not illegal.

In all of this, Anderson has not acted out of charater, he's just been smarter than the Trust, The FA and Venkys in extending his sleazy agent activities.

The reason I say turn the fire on the Trust is I think it's a good bet he didn't act out of character during the owner search process. I'd love to see the contract that engaged him to find a buyer. Who signed it. As they always say, follow the money and you never know what you might find. What happened to the 30 million pieces of silver the Trust took. What happened to Andersons finders fee from the club? I wonder if he kept all of it or some was used to "ease" the sale process? Was he behind Ali Syed?

[yoda]

  On 22/08/2016 at 14:00, Exiled in Toronto said:

Here we are indeed, at a dead end. Rules were circumvented but not broken. Contracts were structured to enrich the people signing them, but were not illegal.

In all of this, Anderson has not acted out of charater, he's just been smarter than the Trust, The FA and Venkys in extending his sleazy agent activities.

The reason I say turn the fire on the Trust is I think it's a good bet he didn't act out of character during the owner search process. I'd love to see the contract that engaged him to find a buyer. Who signed it. As they always say, follow the money and you never know what you might find. What happened to the 30 million pieces of silver the Trust took. What happened to Andersons finders fee from the club? I wonder if he kept all of it or some was used to "ease" the sale process? Was he behind Ali Syed?

That ship has sailed long ago, the attention has to be on the Rao's, make it personal

[Exiled in Toronto]

  On 22/08/2016 at 14:03, yoda said:

That ship has sailed long ago, the attention has to be on the Rao's, make it personal

That's not a plan though, it's an aspiration against which zero traction has been achieved in six years. From what I've read on here, they own Pune so no one there will take up the fight and they aren't known outside Pune, so no one else will care. The worst I've seen evidence of is they have been taken as mugs, which is already pretty apparent to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention. It's a dead end.

[JHRover]

  On 22/08/2016 at 14:00, Exiled in Toronto said:

Here we are indeed, at a dead end. Rules were circumvented but not broken. Contracts were structured to enrich the people signing them, but were not illegal.

In all of this, Anderson has not acted out of charater, he's just been smarter than the Trust, The FA and Venkys in extending his sleazy agent activities.

The reason I say turn the fire on the Trust is I think it's a good bet he didn't act out of character during the owner search process. I'd love to see the contract that engaged him to find a buyer. Who signed it. As they always say, follow the money and you never know what you might find. What happened to the 30 million pieces of silver the Trust took. What happened to Andersons finders fee from the club? I wonder if he kept all of it or some was used to "ease" the sale process? Was he behind Ali Syed?

All those are important questions that one day need answering. I also look forward to the day that someone with the resources manages to get hold of the requirements Jack Walker left for the Trust so we can all see whether they did indeed have a remit to ensure the club was protected long term or whether they were free to dump the club as soon as they could into anyone's hands.

However, I think those things need to come down the line. For now, all our energies and efforts need to be focused on ridding the club of the disease that currently is infecting and destroying Blackburn Rovers.

Anyone who reads my comments will know that I detest the Walker Trust for their part in our downfall and subsequent refusal to speak out and apologise for their actions, and I'd be the first to encourage an investigation into their behaviour back in 2010, but only once the dust has settled and we can begin to sift through the rubble and unearth the skeletons of the last 6 years.

A bit like a war really. You don't start the post mortem/enquiry until the war is over and the full picture then becomes clearer. Starting it now whilst the battle for the club is still raging will only serve to divert energy/time/resources away from the central issue.

I don't really know what we can do next. My biggest hope is that the inevitable relegation, be it this season or next, is the final push they need to pack their bags and clear off. If it isn't, then god help us, because we're going down and the only consolation I can cling to at the moment is that it might be the final straw for them if they find out we've gone down again.

[donnermeat]

  On 22/08/2016 at 13:19, mark1875 said:

The authorities appear to be holding onto the fact that it wasn't Blackburn Rovers who entered into an agreement with an agency, it was the VH Group that entered into an agreement, where the agency would advise their client (VH Group) on what decisions the client should make about the football club. So ultimately the VH Group was making the decisions and not the Agency.

The solicitors letter now in the public domain is worded very cleverly to reflect that above.

Deep down we all know who was making the decisions, the authorities must know who were making the decisions, yet here we are.

Yes I understand that but when someone is clearly de facto in control of a club, I believe they could and would step in if they wanted to, despite a layer of ambiguity.

If we were a fashionable London club I guarantee this would have been stamped out long ago, despite what is written on a contract.

[Exiled in Toronto]

  On 22/08/2016 at 14:26, JHRover said:

All those are important questions that one day need answering. I also look forward to the day that someone with the resources manages to get hold of the requirements Jack Walker left for the Trust so we can all see whether they did indeed have a remit to ensure the club was protected long term or whether they were free to dump the club as soon as they could into anyone's hands.

However, I think those things need to come down the line. For now, all our energies and efforts need to be focused on ridding the club of the disease that currently is infecting and destroying Blackburn Rovers.

Anyone who reads my comments will know that I detest the Walker Trust for their part in our downfall and subsequent refusal to speak out and apologise for their actions, and I'd be the first to encourage an investigation into their behaviour back in 2010, but only once the dust has settled and we can begin to sift through the rubble and unearth the skeletons of the last 6 years.

A bit like a war really. You don't start the post mortem/enquiry until the war is over and the full picture then becomes clearer. Starting it now whilst the battle for the club is still raging will only serve to divert energy/time/resources away from the central issue.

I don't really know what we can do next. My biggest hope is that the inevitable relegation, be it this season or next, is the final push they need to pack their bags and clear off. If it isn't, then god help us, because we're going down and the only consolation I can cling to at the moment is that it might be the final straw for them if they find out we've gone down again.

It's not a post mortem I'm suggesting but a search for illegality wherever we can find it. Until we have some we have no weapons to fight the war.

[glen9mullan]

Im gonna watch reserves tonight, if anyone fancies a catch up and a chat pop over to game. Im sure things can evolve with more hands to the pump

[USRoverME]

  On 22/08/2016 at 13:56, mhead said:

There is now no more money to be made from the Rovers , so all parties should be losing interest in us eg Crescendo;the Anderson family;keano.

I'm not sure this is true. Even in lower leagues, we'd be an asset to an agent. Got a kid under contract out of favor, and need to get him some playing time to hope for a better deal (and more agent money) loan him to Blackburn. Got a Wes Brown type still holding on... send him to Rovers. Have an unknown foreign player u want to hit it big in England, but need to test the waters first, if he can adapt, try Ewood...

Sadly, i think the agents can make use of us as a printi g press wherever we are, just at smaller amounts per transaction, initially.

[JHRover]

I wonder whether Sky Sports would be able to arrange an interview with Venkys. They didn't seem to have much difficulty organising sit down interviews with Balaji and Venkatesh in the early days, surely they still have the contact details to arrange another?

Am I just being paranoid that the Venky blanket of silence seemed to begin from the moment they 'ceased' dealings with their 'advisors'?

[yoda]

  On 22/08/2016 at 14:21, Exiled in Toronto said:

That's not a plan though, it's an aspiration against which zero traction has been achieved in six years. From what I've read on here, they own Pune so no one there will take up the fight and they aren't known outside Pune, so no one else will care. The worst I've seen evidence of is they have been taken as mugs, which is already pretty apparent to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention. It's a dead end.

They don't own Pune, that has been completely over egged by some, People like the TATA brothers own Pune. The Rao's are considered bit players by the real money and business community in the area.

Mugs or not they are toxic to the Rovers and need to be got rid off ASAP

  On 22/08/2016 at 14:41, JHRover said:

I wonder whether Sky Sports would be able to arrange an interview with Venkys. They didn't seem to have much difficulty organising sit down interviews with Balaji and Venkatesh in the early days, surely they still have the contact details to arrange another?

Am I just being paranoid that the Venky blanket of silence seemed to begin from the moment they 'ceased' dealings with their 'advisors'?

They have fallen out big time with Anderson, he calls the shots with Sky!

go figure

[Stuart]

  On 22/08/2016 at 11:29, Blue Cabbage said:

I was expecting a different response from her.

Very disappointing.

Agreed, disappointing. As always, football fans are on their own.

Morally repugnant contracts paying inexperienced people exorbitant amounts to deliver failure to the detriment of a community are of no consequence.

[tomphil]

  On 22/08/2016 at 14:37, USRoverME said:

I'm not sure this is true. Even in lower leagues, we'd be an asset to an agent. Got a kid under contract out of favor, and need to get him some playing time to hope for a better deal (and more agent money) loan him to Blackburn. Got a Wes Brown type still holding on... send him to Rovers. Have an unknown foreign player u want to hit it big in England, but need to test the waters first, if he can adapt, try Ewood...

Sadly, i think the agents can make use of us as a printi g press wherever we are, just at smaller amounts per transaction, initially.

Agree with this the lower the cost base goes and the lower the league the easier and cheaper it is to run players through the books and fill the squad with youth.

Those with fingers in it will be telling these clowns they can sell 20 mill worth of players every few years with this model. They are still probably to stupid to realise it will never happen. If you were agents or an agency with some sort of control then that is just the kind of platform you'd want.

[1arC]

  On 22/08/2016 at 11:55, Liam0001 said:

Chaps,

I posted in another topic but this could be interesting... Apologies if it has been previously discussed:

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/blackburn-rovers-business-networking-tickets-26879410039

I have had an E Mail, inviting me and the Mrs to it. I won't be going, but if anyone wants my invite, let me know.

[1arC]

  On 22/08/2016 at 11:02, Kamy100 said:

Heidi Blake has looked through all of the leaked material from last week and also done her own checks and has comeback with “the situation sounds dire but I’m afraid there is no evidence of criminality and therefore it is not something that we can take on, due to our limited resources. You are all obviously doing sterling work on this though and I wish you all the very best with it”.

It is just a thought and it might be me, being far too cynical. We all knew that Heidi was looking at these documents as did anyone who cared to check on Twitter. What if someone got to her first and decided to ensure that she found nothing illegal. So far as I am concerned, the documents I have read, suggest that things are certainly bordering on being illegal. Assaulting a fan for starters and threatening to kill him and harm his family, is hardly legal is it? Not only that, but if you are prepared to look hard enough, you may find further evidence of wrong doing. I watched the Mark Williams Thomas drama on TV recently, where a guy was convicted of murdering his wife Carole Packman, even though no body was ever found. Now I know this is not as serious as murder, but plenty of evidence points to some serious crimes being carried out. Threatening to kill someone or to bodily harm someone IS a criminal offence and carries maximum penalty of 5 years in prison. This HAS happened to one of our fans, so come on, lets get this statement out in the open and start some proper criminal proceedings. This statement is off the record at the minute so get it on the record and it will attract some media attention and perhaps someone will be brought to justice.

[Iceman]

Just had to laugh at the Collymore tweet to that Danny Guy