[Archived] Rovers' Debt

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

. So the land against which Rovers debt is secured , may not belong to Venkys ...should we be worried ?

Wouldn't surprise one bit with these Clowns.

[Dunnfc]

He allowed them to just pay him a fraction of the debt, I think 15m was the amount he was paid back. Nice bit of coin back for him and the club is relieved of its major problem. Happy Days for Notlob

His loans never used to be interest free so he was paid something like 5 million a year until the second year in the championship.

[tomphil]

. So the land against which Rovers debt is secured , may not belong to Venkys ...should we be worried ?

Could be the cause of the panic at their end but surely it's their problem if they owe their bank the thick end of 100 million.

[koi]

Just to add to this thread:

http://www.venkys.com/Venky's_FR_31.03.16.pdf

I understand the Lac as being 1m Rupees. If so, then not a great set of account considering they're supposed to be mega rich. Adds more to the conundrum how could they afford to finance the purchase?

[Dunnfc]

He allowed them to just pay him a fraction of the debt, I think 15m was the amount he was paid back. Nice bit of coin back for him and the club is relieved of its major problem. Happy Days for Notlob

What about the 5 million in interest per year payable in the PL to Moonshift? Thats about 12 Years of interest right?

He paid himself 60% back at least and kept the hotel which the club funded to construct etc.

[tomphil]

I've long believed they've had money back out of the club either to service the borrowings they've put in or as some kind of interest if it's their personal money, which I find hard accept.

I think the way things have panned out and the mess we are now in shows they haven't been whacking in several million a month to cover losses. Otherwise there wouldn't be constant talk of debt it would just be an 80 million asset to them. They've somehow guaranteed the bills paid up until last summer but that was likely from borrowings offset by income from parachutes. Funny how when the club needs almost 100% funding it virtually stops altogether.

The chickens began to trot home to roost once the end of the parachute money came hovering on the horizon. Going off the mess they've made of owning the club it would be no surprise if their whole financial situation is a right balls up now.

[JBiz]

I said in 2013 that the decisions made in the preseason to the championship could haunt this club for some years to come.

We effectively tied all support money from the premier league to a bunch of players not likely to succeed. On those costs, we needed an instant return but nearly ended up in the third tier after spending likely another 10m + on managers only to settle on a reserve manager! Is that effectively 30/40m all in on pay offs/ wages/costs/signings/loan fees etc?

Only Jordan was a success really - kazim, King etc had a few good games but the sheer cost of JR and wages meant we would end up spending 150%+ of our turnover on wages.

A severely reduced turnover, ever dropping.

The Raos have been stung big time by this club, and I'd have no problem going with the suggestion their empire is falling around them.

The only problem with that is some research shows a high share price, and practically endless capital in business and land.

We all know whom benefitted the most out of the cash pile. The interview on sky sports will haunt me until my untimely death.

[tomphil]

Some research a while back showed their core business is largely weighted with debt as I suppose most big businesses are so it has to thrive to cover it's borrowings. I'd think their profit from that is quite small in reality, certainly not enough to sustain 20 mill a year losses on another arm of the firm and just how much of VH do the family actually own ?

Also I'm sure I read somewhere that Balaji's compen as wholetime director was only around a million per year in Indian currency. Doesn't sound a right lot for someone with such flamboyant tastes.

On the money put in and taken out I'm not on about pilfering or bleeding. For once I'm looking at it through their eyes from a business point of view and thinking they might well have a system in place by stealth of getting money out to cover the interest on their borrowings or paying themselves interest on what they might have stuck in. I believe this is common practice in football also business if one company lends another money. Remember them always referring to it as a long term project and a succession of our managers going on about book value.

Maybe V's or whoever lent on the club & squads value in return for an annual repayment or interest taken out dressed as something else.

Agree on the other bit, when all the mess finally folds the only ones to have truly benefitted will be the original snakes who got in, stitched it all up then got out again (allegedly ). From a 3rd in line coach on the dole then on a grand or two a week to a millionaire in 18 months or so. Ultimate sting !

[ad0102]

My guess is that the debt is secured on the land. If the Venkys sell Rovers then there will be a clause to repay the £80m circa debt owed to the bank.

They don't have the cash available to pay this, so they will fund the annual losses instead. Even if Rovers go into administration, Venkys will need to repay the debt as it is not secured on the rovers or give up the land. They will wait and hope some idiots give them £100m for the Rovers or we get promoted. Neither will happen, so we are stuck with them.

[tomphil]

My guess is that the debt is secured on the land. If the Venkys sell Rovers then there will be a clause to repay the £80m circa debt owed to the bank.

They don't have the cash available to pay this, so they will fund the annual losses instead. Even if Rovers go into administration, Venkys will need to repay the debt as it is not secured on the rovers or give up the land. They will wait and hope some idiots give them £100m for the Rovers or we get promoted. Neither will happen, so we are stuck with them.

That's pretty much where I'm at with it and they or at least some of them would probably gladly walk away but they just can't. Not as simple as just writing off their losses like Davies because they may be tied in hook line and sinker to the borrowings.

They themselves will be ok for cash but they won't have enough to pay off that debt and any other huge borrowings their core business might have. They'll just sit on their personal cash pile and try and ride it out on both fronts.

[Athlete]

That's pretty much where I'm at with it and they or at least some of them would probably gladly walk away but they just can't. Not as simple as just writing off their losses like Davies because they may be tied in hook line and sinker to the borrowings.

They themselves will be ok for cash but they won't have enough to pay off that debt and any other huge borrowings their core business might have. They'll just sit on their personal cash pile and try and ride it out on both fronts.

Thats what I conclude with the end being liquidation unless a creditor ie Boi a bit similar to Liverpool can somehow make them relinquish the club

[47er]

That's pretty much where I'm at with it and they or at least some of them would probably gladly walk away but they just can't. Not as simple as just writing off their losses like Davies because they may be tied in hook line and sinker to the borrowings.

They themselves will be ok for cash but they won't have enough to pay off that debt and any other huge borrowings their core business might have. They'll just sit on their personal cash pile and try and ride it out on both fronts.

They surely had their best chance of getting their money back with Lambert? He needed investment, they panicked.

Conclusion? They don't have the dosh.

[yoda]

Well it pleases me that more and more people are now realising that the Rao's don't have the dosh to own a football club.

This should change the whole way of dealing with the Venky exit, for example could they even afford to take legal action against any protesters/posters.

Would they even take the risk of any protesters coming to court and informing the court as to why they have been protesting.

[philipl]

Well it pleases me that more and more people are now realising that the Rao's don't have the dosh to own a football club.

This should change the whole way of dealing with the Venky exit, for example could they even afford to take legal action against any protesters/posters.

Would they even take the risk of any protesters coming to court and informing the court as to why they have been protesting.

Raises the question of where the money came from for the initial purchase and capital injection, doesn't it everyone who met Richard Scudamore?.....

[funny-old-game]

Raises the question of where the money came from for the initial purchase and capital injection, doesn't it everyone who met Richard Scudamore?.....

Don't know if your can answer this Philip but do you think or have suspicions of someone else involved regarding monies used to purchase the club?

[philipl]

Don't know if your can answer this Philip but do you think or have suspicions of someone else involved regarding monies used to purchase the club?

You are right, I cannot answer, but you and several other people are asking the same question and we got a very interesting answer from Richard Scudamore.

[K-Hod]

You are right, I cannot answer, but you and several other people are asking the same question and we got a very interesting answer from Richard Scudamore.

Which was? Come on, you can't dangle a carrot like that and not explain yourself!

[philipl]

It was a private meeting but I think all of us were amazed when he confirmed what we put to him.

[G Somerset Rover]

Well if that were the case then we'd be wasting our time targeting solely Venkys. So it's kinda important really Philip...

[OJRovers]

If the initial funds were sourced from a 3rd party (eg an agency), these could have been personal 'gifts' to the owners, who used the cash to set up Venkys London Limited.

The missing piece is how the agency was expecting to get a return on this cash gift?

As we know, such agreements between football clubs and agencies are against the rules. Surely an agreement between the ultimate controlling party of a football club and an agency would be against the rules too?

[yoda]

Well if that were the case then we'd be wasting our time targeting solely Venkys. So it's kinda important really Philip...

Unless they have "retired" run

[tomphil]

I certainly think another party or parties pitched in for a stake in it. It would explain a lot like why certain people always seem to have representation at the club.

For the initial asking price it would only take 4 lots to pitch in with 6 million a piece. Maybe with the idea of get the stake money back as quick as possible then a guaranteed annual return of 2 mill each or something over the long term. Perfectly doable whilst in the Prem I suppose.

[DE.]

Well if that were the case then we'd be wasting our time targeting solely Venkys. So it's kinda important really Philip...

Evidence being hidden from the wider fanbase is a big part of the problem. Either the information needs to be put out there somehow (anonymously or through somebody willing to do so) or not mentioned at all.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Which was? Come on, you can't dangle a carrot like that and not explain yourself!

Yep. Too much of this over the years. In whose interests was it to maintain such secrets?!

[Paul]

Yep. Too much of this over the years. In whose interests was it to maintain such secrets?!

It's in the interests of any fan who might know the answer but couldn't prove this in a court of law.

No doubt it's in the interest of others but I wouldn't know about that.