[Archived] Rovers' Debt

[ABBEY]

Cheers

[tomphil]

So they dribble a bit back in to cover transfers ? Or just a token gesture to make it look like they are doing something ?

With all the income the club has had over the last 12 months surely they shouldn't need to put any in.

[philipl]

Looking at the value of transfers in vs receipts from transfers out, there isn't a financial analyst in the world who wouldn't describe the current situation as asset stripping.

Wages must also be significantly reduced.

[Stuart]

With all the income the club has had over the last 12 months surely they shouldn't need to put any in.

Exactly. Where is all the money still going? Player pay-offs?

Is that an extra £2.1m added to the debt to covers losses AFTER recent player sales and wages downgrades?

We've not had a player worth a bean join the club in the last two years.

Looking at the value of transfers in vs receipts from transfers out, there isn't a financial analyst in the world who wouldn't describe the current situation as asset stripping.

Wages must also be significantly reduced.

There are plenty of analysts on here who don't believe that's happening. And that you wear a tinfoil night cap.

[yoda]

Exactly. Where is all the money still going? Player pay-offs?

Is that an extra £2.1m added to the debt to covers losses AFTER recent player sales and wages downgrades?

We've not had a player worth a bean join the club in the last two years.

There are plenty of analysts on here who don't believe that's happening. And that you wear a tinfoil night cap.

They might start believing it when we start ground sharing with Blackburn Rugby club on Ramsgreave drive

[DE.]

To be fair, on the surface it would be one of the dumbest asset stripping jobs in history. Plunge the club into a shedload of debt, mostly owed to the owners, then sell off players for amounts so small they barely cover the debt's interest rate.

But of course, that's just on the surface.

[philipl]

As I have repeatedly stated, there is no sane legal explanation for the Venky's ownership.

However, player disposal value £20m, player acquisition value £300,000 is asset stripping in anybody's language.

[yoda]

As I have repeatedly stated, there is no sane legal explanation for the Venky's ownership.

However, player disposal value £20m, player acquisition value £300,000 is asset stripping in anybody's language.

There must be an insane illegal explanation then,

we have to keep looking

[1arC]

As I have repeatedly stated, there is no sane legal explanation for the Venky's ownership.

However, player disposal value £20m, player acquisition value £300,000 is asset stripping in anybody's lT

Try £40 Million in the last 18 months.

[pedebumchin]

To be fair, on the surface it would be one of the dumbest asset stripping jobs in history. Plunge the club into a shedload of debt, mostly owed to the owners, then sell off players for amounts so small they barely cover the debt's interest rate.

But of course, that's just on the surface.

It depends on the if or how much interest there is to pay on the debt. It's true that Rovers are deep in the red. What about Venkys other businesses? What is the nature of their agreement with the BOI?

I think what some people may not realise is that they could quite easily put us into administration at any point and pay off the debtors at a rate of 10p or 15p in the pound. Or is that an incorrect assumption? But if I remember correctly most of our debts are unsecured loans to Venkys aren't they?

My gut feeling is that it could happen at any point, the only player worth any money left at the club is probably Marshall. But his value is next to nothing if he doesn't sign a new contract. Therefore it could be considered that all saleable assets have been stripped.

What are they waiting for?

[1arC]

It depends on the if or how much interest there is to pay on the debt. It's true that Rovers are deep in the red. What about Venkys other businesses? What is the nature of their agreement with the BOI?

I think what some people may not realise is that they could quite easily put us into administration at any point and pay off the debtors at a rate of 10p or 15p in the pound. Or is that an incorrect assumption? But if I remember correctly most of our debts are unsecured loans to Venkys aren't they?

My gut feeling is that it could happen at any point, the only player worth any money left at the club is probably Marshall. But his value is next to nothing if he doesn't sign a new contract. Therefore it could be considered that all saleable assets have been stripped.

What are they waiting for?

They may well be waiting for the latest crop of free/low cost signings, to do reasonably well and then, sell them on. If you look at Gestede, Cairney, Duffy, and Hanley, all these players were brought in relatively cheaply and sold on for large profits. Do that again with the players that have been signed and down grade further, repeat as often as possible and who knows.

[yoda]

It depends on the if or how much interest there is to pay on the debt. It's true that Rovers are deep in the red. What about Venkys other businesses? What is the nature of their agreement with the BOI?

I think what some people may not realise is that they could quite easily put us into administration at any point and pay off the debtors at a rate of 10p or 15p in the pound. Or is that an incorrect assumption? But if I remember correctly most of our debts are unsecured loans to Venkys aren't they?

My gut feeling is that it could happen at any point, the only player worth any money left at the club is probably Marshall. But his value is next to nothing if he doesn't sign a new contract. Therefore it could be considered that all saleable assets have been stripped.

What are they waiting for?

For the legal eagles to circumvent the community asset status of Ewood Park

[pedebumchin]

Perhaps a further relegation with selling the rest of the squad with any value will be enough then?

[The_Expert]

They might start believing it when we start ground sharing with Blackburn Rugby club on Ramsgreave drive

At least we would be amongst people who believe in their heritage and have the best interests of all stakeholders at heart.

Venkys OUT!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Try £40 Million in the last 18 months.

I think our friend Mr Cheston needs a reet good grilling tbh,like a very stern....where's the coin gone?

The man is an accountant by all accounts,no bullshyte glazed eye replies of 'I don't know' not required by the masses here.

The carcass is being stripped bare...the club is a flurking shambles

[tomphil]

I think our friend Mr Cheston needs a reet good grilling tbh,like a very stern....where's the coin gone?

The man is an accountant by all accounts,no bullshyte glazed eye replies of 'I don't know' not required by the masses here.

The carcass is being stripped bare...the club is a flurking shambles

Exactly. If he can't give answers to these very simple questions then there's no point in bothering with this guy again. His words so far have proved completely contradictory so it's time he laid out the truth or buggered off.

Maybe that's a bit harsh as for all we know he may be the one holding the club together with a financial juggling act but I've not much time for people who don't tell it like it is. We are owed that much at least.

[philipl]

For the legal eagles to circumvent the community asset status of Ewood Park

Hopefully, the Trust did a good enough job to prevent any compromise on this. We will know soon enough.

[MCMC1875]

Hopefully, the Trust did a good enough job to prevent any compromise on this. We will know soon enough.

Has there been a challenge philip?

[Paul]

Has there been a challenge philip?

It was myself who formulated and submitted the application. Supporters Direct checked the final draft before submission. After submission the club had the opportunity to and did challenge the application. The ACV is in place and should not now be challenged until it comes up for renewal which from memory is summer 2018. ACVs are in place for five years. I know of many ACVs relating to football grounds but as this is a recent development I don't believe there have been any renewals to date.

Do keep in mind this is protection in one sense only - the Trust as the applicant must be given six months in which to make a bid should Ewood be offered for sale. There is a two month period in which the Trust can consider whether or not to make a bid and a further four months during which a bid is prepared and submitted. There is no obligation on the owners to accept such a bid.

The real protection comes in relation to planning permission and possible change of use. Ewood is established as an ACV and planners having acknowledged this may well have strong views on whether or not it is appropriate to grant a change of use. If planners feel change of use is inappropriate the valuation of the ground could be substantially different and obviously have a rather limited market potential.

The requirements at renewal have to be investigated. For the moment I'm very satisfied the ACV is as rock solid as it could be.

[philipl]

Has there been a challenge philip?

There are rumours circulating that having tried and been blocked from doing anything with Brockhall, the same people are looking at how they could mortgage or sell Ewood.

Brockhall in effect has a double lock on it as does Ewood but in a different way- the protection Paul mentioned and a twist in the Jack Walker legacy as well.

The ACV protection will bring the Rovers fans and Venky's into very direct confrontation if there is any attempt to mortgage or sell the ground. It might even bring the Walker Trust back into play.

[ChrisyG]

There are rumours circulating that having tried and been blocked from doing anything with Brockhall, the same people are looking at how they could mortgage or sell Ewood.

Jesus. Who's behind this Phillip, is it Venky's?

[Gav]

There are rumours circulating that having tried and been blocked from doing anything with Brockhall, the same people are looking at how they could mortgage or sell Ewood.

Philipl we've been here before

This is just rumour and should be treated as such until some hard evidence comes forward.

It shouldn't be to difficult to obtain some evidence if it exists, lets get someone looking into it.

[philipl]

Jesus. Who's behind this Phillip, is it Venky's?

yes- if the rumours are true and I have to stress these are rumours at this stage. I don't know of anyone having any direct evidence other than some pretty persistent and consistent hearsay from within the Blackburn community and a leaky London lawyer...

One of the reasons I used the term asset stripping on the transfer thread where sales in the last 18 months yielded £40m and transfers spent amount to less than £300,000. Plus the wage benefits of employing cheaper players.

[tomphil]

Wouldn't be surprised to see the car parks sold off first if other avenues fail. The bit that had the church on Rovers bought under the instruction of Williams must be worth a quid or two.

Enough to waste on contracts for injury prone players maybe

[Paul]

There are rumours circulating that having tried and been blocked from doing anything with Brockhall, the same people are looking at how they could mortgage or sell Ewood.

Brockhall in effect has a double lock on it as does Ewood but in a different way- the protection Paul mentioned and a twist in the Jack Walker legacy as well.

The ACV protection will bring the Rovers fans and Venky's into very direct confrontation if there is any attempt to mortgage or sell the ground. It might even bring the Walker Trust back into play.

Should that confrontation should come about, which a large part of me hopes it will, this will be the biggest test yet to Rovers fans and Blackburn as a whole in their commitment to the club. It is very likely there would have to be a very large scale funding exercise with people asked to make real, tangible financial commitments to a bid. No pledges, just hard cash.

I should state I am only a Trust member and don't represent any RT view.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the car parks sold off first if other avenues fail. The bit that had the church on Rovers bought under the instruction of Williams must be worth a quid or two.

Enough to waste on contracts for injury prone players maybe

Which they can be as the ACV does not cover the car parks. They lay outside the boundaries of Ewood Park as shown on the relevant OS maps.