[Archived] Rovers' Debt

[tomphil]

Well I think car park sales was the first route Bolton went down and it seems we are set to follow them, albeit with a far more shady version !

[47er]

Car park sales means that if we ever did get back up, many supporters wouldn't turn up because they would have nowhere to park with a 25000 crowd!

On the sale of Ewood, I doubt it tbh. Too difficult and who would be interested? Chorley?

Much more likely that they will borrow against it ie mortgaging a capital asset to meet recurrent expenditure.

It's a slow death we are facing I tell you, if it's not nailed down it'll be flogged off.

[philipl]

There are people who know far more detail about how the Trust legally secured Jack's benevolence with regards to Ewood. I believe the most recent protection was introduced after the Trust decided to seek a buyer for the club so it is possible that all the car parks which are owned by Rovers currently have been swept up into the protection but I am idly speculating.

Again I must stress this is totally separate from the ACV and there could be holes in what the Walker Trust tried to achieve in safeguarding Ewood. However, the gossipy lawyer in London suggested that a firm of legal hole seekers are at work.

[AggyBlue]

This sort of talk is outrageous. If these scumbags can't afford to run the club as it is there should be a mechanism in place to force them to off load it.

Have we any posters that sit on the town council?

[Gav]

There are people who know far more detail about how the Trust legally secured Jack's benevolence with regards to Ewood. I believe the most recent protection was introduced after the Trust decided to seek a buyer for the club so it is possible that all the car parks which are owned by Rovers currently have been swept up into the protection but I am idly speculating.

Again I must stress this is totally separate from the ACV and there could be holes in what the Walker Trust tried to achieve in safeguarding Ewood. However, the gossipy lawyer in London suggested that a firm of legal hole seekers are at work.

With all due respect Philipl you've set the hares running in all directions previously with information that was proven to be incorrect, not always your fault I know.

But if their is one ounce of truth in any of this, I'd expect you to be talking the newspapers at both local and national levels. The momentum is with the fans, the papers will lap this up, it needs looking into immediately.

[RoverInverness]

There are rumours circulating that having tried and been blocked from doing anything with Brockhall, the same people are looking at how they could mortgage or sell Ewood.

Brockhall in effect has a double lock on it as does Ewood but in a different way- the protection Paul mentioned and a twist in the Jack Walker legacy as well.

The ACV protection will bring the Rovers fans and Venky's into very direct confrontation if there is any attempt to mortgage or sell the ground. It might even bring the Walker Trust back into play.

Hi,

What is the "double lock" on Brockhall please?

Thanks.

[Mercer]

Well I think car park sales was the first route Bolton went down and it seems we are set to follow them, albeit with a far more shady version !

Bolton's car parks are a different proposition given they are adjacent / part of a huge retail complex.

[broadsword]

If they're trying tomortgage Ewood then I would assume administration cannot be far away.

[yoda]

Should that confrontation should come about, which a large part of me hopes it will, this will be the biggest test yet to Rovers fans and Blackburn as a whole in their commitment to the club. It is very likely there would have to be a very large scale funding exercise with people asked to make real, tangible financial commitments to a bid. No pledges, just hard cash.

I should state I am only a Trust member and don't represent any RT view.

Which they can be as the ACV does not cover the car parks. They lay outside the boundaries of Ewood Park as shown on the relevant OS maps.

Now you see that worries the hell out of me,

when you have a venue that admits the public you need to provide an agreed amount of car park spaces to accommodate them or the license to operate can be revoked,

Fyled FC are having issues with the council on such matters, seems they included the car park spaces at the adjacent Aldi in the minimum car park spaces needed to operate!.

[Paul]

I agree yoda. The problem from the ACV perspective was this. The submission requires a VERY precise definition of proposed asset. I concluded the definition which could not be argued with was that provided by local OS mapping. This was mapped before Jack rebuilt Ewood but fortunately the current stadium falls within the boundaries of the original ground. The boundary runs behind the club shop but this was deliberately excluded as it clearly is not part of the football ground. The car parks are outside these boundaries.

The ACV has to be clearly definable and shown to be one which has benefitted the community. The club argued, and other clubs have done the same, that only the DE and pitch qualified and the hospitality, conferencing, offices etc. should be excluded. My view these are integral to the running of a modern football club was accepted.

[PeteJD13]

So are venkys looking at re mortgaging club assets? it again begs the age old question if they cannot afford to run the club why don't they offload it, or is it rinse all the cash possible then put a set of padlocks up and walk away

[yoda]

I agree yoda. The problem from the ACV perspective was this. The submission requires a VERY precise definition of proposed asset. I concluded the definition which could not be argued with was that provided by local OS mapping. This was mapped before Jack rebuilt Ewood but fortunately the current stadium falls within the boundaries of the original ground. The boundary runs behind the club shop but this was deliberately excluded as it clearly is not part of the football ground. The car parks are outside these boundaries.

The ACV has to be clearly definable and shown to be one which has benefitted the community. The club argued, and other clubs have done the same, that only the DE and pitch qualified and the hospitality, conferencing, offices etc. should be excluded. My view these are integral to the running of a modern football club was accepted.

PM'd you

[JHRover]

Now you see that worries the hell out of me,

when you have a venue that admits the public you need to provide an agreed amount of car park spaces to accommodate them or the license to operate can be revoked,

Fyled FC are having issues with the council on such matters, seems they included the car park spaces at the adjacent Aldi in the minimum car park spaces needed to operate!.

This must be a new requirement as part of planning regulations for new stadia. The likes of Fulham, QPR and Brentford have no parking spaces but must get away with it because they are old grounds. Likewise Everton and Spurs.

[yoda]

This must be a new requirement as part of planning regulations for new stadia. The likes of Fulham, QPR and Brentford have no parking spaces but must get away with it because they are old grounds. Likewise Everton and Spurs.

Spurs new ground has 4 stations close by and the club are actively working to get the amount of fans arriving by car to less than 24% of the total, not sure about the other London clubs. Could be an age aspect to it as well. New places of employment have minimum requirements for parking, especially disabled parking.

Maybe there is some leeway for individual planning authorities.

[MCMC1875]

.

[tomphil]

Bolton's car parks are a different proposition given they are adjacent / part of a huge retail complex.

May not be as in demand as there but BBE car park & DE coach park are a fair old size plus the bit on Bolton Rd. Add Ewood together with all that and you could mortgage for a fair bit I reckon.

Maybe enough for a seasons budget in league 1 .....

[PeteJD13]

May not be as in demand as there but BBE car park & DE coach park are a fair old size plus the bit on Bolton Rd. Add Ewood together with all that and you could mortgage for a fair bit I reckon.

Maybe enough for a seasons budget in league 1 .....

that's assuming the cash will be used for a budget I can see it being funnelled to pune ( if they find a way round the contract clauses ) - I think we are very much in the end game now, if they cannot re mortage I suspect they will look to offload the club, if they can its a full asset strip and liquidate

[tomphil]

that's assuming the cash will be used for a budget I can see it being funnelled to pune ( if they find a way round the contract clauses ) - I think we are very much in the end game now, if they cannot re mortage I suspect they will look to offload the club, if they can its a full asset strip and liquidate

Maybe although that doesn't fit with all the face saving and skeleton covering that they seem to have gone to great lengths to protect. If they are truly skint and can't or won't provide proper finance anymore the end game will end up forced when everything falls in arrears etc.

I reckon they are more likely just ignoring everything and expect the club to wash its own face come what may which would force the finance people at both ends scrambling around for short term solutions. That will sooner or later come to borrowing against fixed assets maybe like they borrowed against parachute payments in advance of receipt. Probably hoping future player sales every year could square it off then borrow again and so on.

[darrenrover]

The Dingles making an offer for Brockhall lock, stock and barrel is my concern. It's only a thought but one worth consideration as a danger to us all IMO.

[koi]

There wont be that much value in Ewood Park, certainly nothing to dent the debt with any great conviction but when you have a club run by our lot anything could happen!

[tomphil]

Only saving thing there is I think Burnley are halfway through building their own aren't they ? Or is that just an academy or something ?

There wont be that much value in Ewood Park, certainly nothing to dent the debt with any great conviction but when you have a club run by our lot anything could happen!

I don't think it's about the debt I reckon it would be more to do with finding ways to finance day to day running costs now that parachutes are over and most valuable playing assets have gone.

[ABBEY]

The Dingles making an offer for Brockhall lock, stock and barrel is my concern. It's only a thought but one worth consideration as a danger to us all IMO.

Thought they'd built a state of the art place?

[darrenrover]

Thought they'd built a state of the art place?

Just had a Quick Google and you're right, I wasn't aware of that. Phewww!

[ABBEY]

I recalled a dingle sprouting about it

[JHRover]

Burnley's facility is under construction. It's worth noting that when completed it will still be some way short of the standards of Brockhall, which even now are among the best in the country. At present Burnley have the equivalent of a League One/Two training facility down at Gawthorpe. The construction work there will give them a new indoor centre and some other things which should bring them up to Championship standard, but not at the level we have which is probably better than all but about 7-8 Premier League clubs.