[Archived] Rovers' Debt

[Leonard Venkhater]

Surely the time has come for everyone to leak everything they had via foreign news sources as this is beyond the remit of the English courts remit. We need to get creative with how we an force this to happen

Well said.

Actually, I am getting more and more frustrated with hints and allusions, when our club is so vulnerable.

In my own experience, no-one is expected to maintain confidentiality if there is risk of harm.

If it is not clear after the last 6 years that this club is at risk of significant harm, then it never will be.

Everything needs to be out there. For instance, it would be dynamite if other football supporters heard that the FA was implicated in stopping the truth from coming out.

If the Vs are selling assets it is to strip the cash out of the club and leave it to die. In theory we owe countless millions to them but that is just debt and I'm pretty sure that won't be funded by Vs so if they dump the club there will be a debt to the BofI to pay and nothing else. In these kinds of deal you can get away with virtually anything and that is what they are now trying to do. It's been coming, we shouldn't be surprised. From the moment they walked in the door it was only going to end 1 way.

Where the **** is the FA?...Oh right....just remembered....

[PAFELL]

Surely the time has come for everyone to leak everything they had via foreign news sources as this is beyond the remit of the English courts remit. We need to get creative with how we an force this to happen

I have often wondered if anybody has actually taken the documents gathered to a lawyer / sports lawyer - to see if anything can be done.

We keep hearing words of corruption etc

[yoda]

The Venky's plan

Now you see it, now you don't

[DE.]

Witchcraft...

[tomphil]

I wonder how much of that debt is actually real. My thinking is Venky's give Rovers unsecured loans to buy players, commission paid to friendly agents. Friendly agents with 'brown paper envelopes' toodle over to Pune for a purely coincidental visit. Split the cash.

In addition to that big bets made on long odds becoming managers, sacking managers etc.

Then when Venky's have sucked enough cash out of the club they sell the club and transfer the debt to the new owners a la Ken Bates buying Chelsea for £1.

That, added to the player sales that HAVENT gone back to paying off the debt and seemingly into some sort of black hole.

The more you think about it, the more shocking it appears to be...

Allegedly.

I've often thought a big chunk of money goes around in circles just for book cooking purposes. As we've said all along balance sheets are balance sheets, cash is cash and real debtors are banks etc. As for the rest of it who knows.

[yoda]

Witchcraft...

Feel the force

[koi]

There is a whisper that investigations are/have been done regarding the riverside area.

[Paul]

I follow the reasoning behind these new concerns though struggle to see how they will be realised.

The one which seems least likely is sale and lease back. The only thing Ewood Park can be used for, without knocking it down and rebuilding, is football. Seems to me any company prepared to buy Ewood and lease it to Venky's, whose track record is open for all to see, would be a very special sort of idiot.

[Stuart]

There is a whisper that investigations are/have been done regarding the riverside area.

Is this ahead of some completely surprising and unpredictable scheme to close it and move everyone in front of the cameras?

[koi]

Who knows with this lot. I didn't get time to ask more but my guess would be they were looking at the structural integrity of the stand and area. Saying that, wouldn't surprise me if an architects impression of a new stand is released to wind the fans up.

[McClarky]

I follow the reasoning behind these new concerns though struggle to see how they will be realised.

The one which seems least likely is sale and lease back. The only thing Ewood Park can be used for, without knocking it down and rebuilding, is football. Seems to me any company prepared to buy Ewood and lease it to Venky's, whose track record is open for all to see, would be a very special sort of idiot.

True, but Brockhall? Land in the Ribble Valley is at a premium and that's a lot of land.

[arbitro]

I'm no expert on these matters but could it be that the Indians (or a prospective buyer) are trying to put a value on the land to sell (or buy) the club? This would fit with the recouping of money through player sales which some see as (hopefully) their exit strategy.

[philipl]

Is the Dingles training ground on what was or is still National Trust land? if it is the case then they appear to have got change of use.

I dont know myself just a thought that came up when I Gooled it after reading an earlier post.

IF I was a property speculator I would look to stick houses on the Senior part and on part of the Academy with a token as 'parkland'

I believe there is a specific split of land usage stipulated. Existing buildings in the already developed area would need to be demolished and returned to parkland to keep within the legally enforceable development limits.

[JHRover]

If they wanted to sell the ground and then lease it back they would be able to do it. In recent times Leeds and Portsmouth have both sold off their grounds to private owners to generate some instant cash and then rented it back from them. I think Portsmouth have once again taken ownership of Fratton Park since the supporters trust took over, but Leeds are still renting Elland Road for a substantial amount, along with their training ground at Thorpe Arch. Infact it is this situation which is partly responsible for a lack of prospective new owners at Leeds, as anyone buying that club would be getting a name and badge, but no property or real assets as they are owned by a third party and cost the club a fortune every year to lease.

Its more likely they are going to attempt to close the Riverside in the near future as a cost cutting exercise. Cheston has already embarked on his plan to move as many people as possible willingly to the Jack Walker by offering cheaper tickets, I expect the next phase will be to close the Riverside 'temporarily' due to 'structural issues' and this will then become a permanent arrangement. Its certainly easier to get 2,000 long term season ticket holders in there to give up their seats of 30 years if you can convince them the stand is sinking and its a health and safety issue rather than cost cutting.

[tomphil]

If they are struggling to think of ways to finance the club or indeed squeeze as much as possible back before basically just selling the name then why not contact Seneca or the Walker Trust ? I'm sure these guys would be very interested in buying and leasing back Brockhall or/and Ewood, job done.

Would be a great way to get a foot in the door to get the whole club as well.

[ad0102]

They could use any receipt from a sale and leaseback arrangement to reduce the debt that is not secured on the football club.

In return there would be annual lease payments, the question would be what would happen if the payments were not met. I would be very surprised if any company would finance this unless they were convinced there was value in the assets

[Boz]

They could use any receipt from a sale and leaseback arrangement to reduce the debt that is not secured on the football club.

In return there would be annual lease payments, the question would be what would happen if the payments were not met. I would be very surprised if any company would finance this unless they were convinced there was value in the assets

Indeed.

Which is why any protest movement should include a commitment that Rovers supporters will never financially bequeath a penny on any businesses or properties that might ever follow in perpetuity on any land that once was Blackburn Rovers, i.e. the land and adjoining land around Ewood Park, plus any land at Brockhall.

Thus tainting the value of the land to any developer and future business venture.

[PeteJD13]

my only hope is the covenants are water tight and this forces venkys hand to sell, my thought is that if the core business is still failing are venkys going to try and use the football clubs assets to borrow money for venkys core business

[tomphil]

my only hope is the covenants are water tight and this forces venkys hand to sell, my thought is that if the core business is still failing are venkys going to try and use the football clubs assets to borrow money for venkys core business

That did cross my mind infact I wouldn't be surprised if some of that 'missing' 100 million has been propping up or helping expand the chicken business all along.

Maybe some clever accountants could weigh the debt on the clubs or holding companies accounts whilst flowing cash the other way ?

[koi]

Let's not get too carried away at the moment; it's not happened so lets just fight the battles as they come.

As for what I originally posted about the Riverside, I made it up. Okay I didn't but you felt batter for a second. I would suspect that the health and safety angle will be used to close it but this bitter pill could be sugar coated (their opinion, not ours) with some pretty sketches of what the Riverside could look like post redevelopment. A few clubs have used this to tactic to keep the supporters collective pecker up.

[JHRover]

The thing is that the Riverside stand could be rebuilt or at least restructured for a fairly cheap price. When we consider the £40 million brought into the club from player sales alone, the cost of rebuilding the Riverside would be only a small fraction of that money. So the excuse, if they are going to go down that route, of closing the Riverside due to structural issues, is not valid. Even if the old stand was collapsing (which it isn't) the club could easily afford to rebuild that stand if they wanted to. It needn't be massive or state of the art, but something similar to Deepdale's main stand could be built at an affordable price and thrown up relatively quickly.

If there's any truth in this its just Cheston onto phase two of his operation to save a few bob by shutting another stand down.

[tomphil]

The first thing a club usually does if there is a small hint of a structural problem is just reduce capacity unless the stand is ready to sink to Australia or fall down which it isn't. As there is no chance of it being full again anytime soon anyway and only has about 1 to 2 k spread about on a good day which is less than half full there is no valid reason to close it. Other than being truthful maybe for once !

They are going to have to come up with a whopper for this one if it happens

[ABBEY]

The thing is that the Riverside stand could be rebuilt or at least restructured for a fairly cheap price. When we consider the £40 million brought into the club from player sales alone, the cost of rebuilding the Riverside would be only a small fraction of that money. So the excuse, if they are going to go down that route, of closing the Riverside due to structural issues, is not valid. Even if the old stand was collapsing (which it isn't) the club could easily afford to rebuild that stand if they wanted to. It needn't be massive or state of the art, but something similar to Deepdale's main stand could be built at an affordable price and thrown up relatively quickly.

If there's any truth in this its just Cheston onto phase two of his operation to save a few bob by shutting another stand down.

The riverside terrace is still underneath

[SoldierMo]

Who knows with this lot. I didn't get time to ask more but my guess would be they were looking at the structural integrity of the stand and area. Saying that, wouldn't surprise me if an architects impression of a new stand is released to wind the fans up.

how do you Add a pic

As i have seen an image i would like to upload from my phone of fans with glowing arrows pointing to empty seats behind the goals...could be a nice way to show in front of tv cameras

[AggyBlue]

If there's any truth in this its just Cheston onto phase two of his operation to save a few bob by shutting another stand down.

If this is the case I hope the Riversiders refuse to relocate and demand a refund