[Archived] Rovers' Debt

[ABBEY]

It does appear that Mrs and Mr D have given up or that Balaji and Venkatesh Rao have got what they want and be the owners of BRFC.

​Balaji has been the one who has the biggest interest in Football.

go on do enlighten me as to WHAT FECKING INTEREST ANY OF THE SLUMDOGS HAVE SHOWN ? IM FUMING AT THIS STATEMENT CHADDY ,THEY HAVE DONE FECK ALL AND SHOWN NO INTEREST WHAT SO FECKING EVER...STOP BEING A VENKPOLOGIST FFS !!!!!!!

SO SIDE BOOB LARDY HAS AN INTEREST IN FOOTBALL ....AS YOU SAY ...SOURCE??

[chaddyrovers]

Has he? That's a bold statement considering he couldn't give a flying one about the club he owns.

Just going off what people say and the people who met him in Pune during that trip.

[MCMC1875]

Just going off what people say and the people who met him in Pune during that trip.

You are nothing but a gossip merchant then.

[Mike E]

Just going off what people say and the people who met him in Pune during that trip.

What people say? Who??

The Pune trip that was an attempt to please the masses 5 years ago is irrelevant after the mismanagement in that time.

Even dingles have passion for football, but not our owners.

[Amo]

I dread to think how we'd be run if he didn't have a passion for football.

[ABBEY]

Just going off what people say and the people who met him in Pune during that trip.

So you have no source then

Wouldn't like to have owners that gave no passion or interest

[tomphil]

It's only the remaining fans passion that stopped Venkys & partners from pouring the entire club down the toilet very very quickly as they took a break and pacified us with Gaz for a while.

Instead they're having to break it down bit by bit but its operation go ahead again now.

[JHRover]

I've been thinking about this new information over the weekend, and it seems to fill in a few pieces of the puzzle.

If we assume that the document filed is proof that Mrs Desai and her husband have handed over control of the club to Balaji and Venkatesh and diluted their own shareholding/voting rights to less than the 25% each they previously held, then it appears to tally with the change in track from the club over the last 9-12 months. Suddenly the Bowyer sacking, Lambert appointment, Lambert departure, Coyle appointment, Shaw departure, Myers departure and perhaps most importantly the decision to sell anything of value and reinvest next to nothing in the club all has a source.

We have always been told that Balaji is the only one who has any sort of interest in football and presumably he was the driving force behind the purchase of the club. We also know he's a fairly clueless businessman going off the number of ventures he's gone into a failed with, so we can possibly presume that he is the one determined to keep hold of the club rather than admit defeat even though it is staring him in the face. It wouldn't be the first time in his business career that he's made a complete mess of an investment.

We know that Balaji was the one who spearheaded the takeover in conjunction with Jerome Anderson. He was photographed on numerous occasions during the takeover process at games with Anderson by his side. It was almost certainly Anderson's relationship with Balaji that saw him play such a prominent role post-takeover and everything that followed with Kean. Now Kean wasn't stupid, and he knew that ultimate authority in the Venky empire and the best chance for him to last in the job was to strike up a relationship with Mrs Desai, who ultimately held the pursestrings and could ensure he remained in place. This is what happened and we've heard all sorts of stories over the years about how Balaji wanted to sack Kean but ultimately Desai prevented it because she liked him and his wife. We also know that when Bowyer got the job he knew the best chance he had of getting business done was to go to the top and flew out to speak to her to get answers, and he himself had a decent working relationship with her that lasted more than 2 years.

Lets suppose that by the summer of 2015, with promotion gone and parachute money going, Desai knew that the game was up. She knew that the club would continue to hemorrhage money and was going to need massive further investment to even have a chance of getting back up. After 3 failed attempts at going back up she had had enough of it. She wasn't prepared to carry on with it, she wasn't prepared to continue to allow company funds to underwrite £20 odd million losses any more and certainly wasn't prepared to allow another spending spree to try and get back up. Infact she and her husband might even have decided it was time to sell the club and might have been willing to do business with Seneca. Unfortunately Balaji put a spanner in those works, unwilling to let go of his project, stubbornly believing something can be rescued from this. Because of this position Mrs Desai and her husband have wiped their hands of the club. No more involvement from them. Its Balaji's mess and he can sort it. Hence why all of a sudden everyone is for sale, including golden boy Rhodes who was previously held on to at any price. The reason for this is that money has to be generated from somewhere else with Desai stopping the funding from her side. Alternatively the huge cash raised from player sales might have been Desai's 'pay off' for her to take out as repayment for her previous investment before she relinquished control to Balaji and Venkatesh. Either way, the sudden sea chance in financial model from being able to keep players to selling everyone has coincided with the change in ownership/voting structure.

Lo and behold this also coincides with the end of Bowyer's tenure. We know that Bowyer got the job in May 2013 when he flew out to India and spoke to Mrs Desai directly, and up until the summer of 2015 he was able to speak to her directly and he was safe in his job. My theory is that when Desai's involvement ceased in summer 2015 (as seen by only the financial men going to India rather than Bowyer) then Bowyer became a dead man walking, as he was Desai's man rather than Balaji's.

Interesting that Balaji's right hand man Suhail Pasha has suddenly taken on an active role in the operation of the club since the Summer of 2015 after Desai stepped back from involvement. It left Balaji free to install his own confidant behind the scenes who would report back directly to him and who Balaji would entrust to make decisions. Hence the Bowyer sacking and his replacement with Lambert. Bowyer's days had been numbered since that summer.

I also believe that this change behind the scenes is what caused the departures of Shaw and Myers. I expect both of them had some sort of working relationship with 'madame' who they could try and contact and sort things out with, and with her stepping out of the way and Balaji taking central position they knew it was time to get out.

As the 'football man' of the family, I expect Balaji has at least some sort of puddled understanding of the importance of experience in a football manager. That's why Lambert got the job on the back of his Norwich success, why Coyle got the job on the back of his Burnley success, why Jokanovic was linked last year on the back of his Watford success. Balaji, whilst undoubtedly clueless, at least realises the relevance of the manager in the football operation. That's why we carried out the impressive Lambert appointment. Only problem is that its easy appointing proper managers, but only the desperate ones will put up with a shambolic operation like we've got here.

A lot of things can be explained if the above link is true and Desai and her husband are out of the loop. The managerial changes, player sales, boardroom departures - all make more sense when viewed in this context.

[tomphil]

There are a lot of things that may tally up and without a shadow of doubt a marker was put down last summer behind the scenes, for what who knows but the funding wherever it came from certainly stopped. The out of the blue sale of Cairney showed that a quick cash injection was desperately needed right there and then and of course all the assets have been cashed since, too much coincedence in my opinion.

Just how are these two now going to fund this venture i wonder, if there is any intention to fund it or will it continue in full wind down mode ? Surely Balaji could've paid big Sis back out of his own millions or is he as i suspect nowhere near as wealthy as he cracks on to be when independant from the rest of them. And what of this land that was allegedly borrowed against to fund the club ? Has he made a right almighty royal mess of it and pished that down the drain or borrowed up to the hilt on it and Mrs D has said enough is enough ?

So far though the paperwork says they are all still active directors and VH still owns VLL and maybe the wording just means IF the others leave neither bro can own more than 50% without paying the other out. Also never less than a quarter so they can't be squeezed out completely ?

[AdamRochina]

.

[Iceman]

I've been thinking about this new information over the weekend, and it seems to fill in a few pieces of the puzzle.

If we assume that the document filed is proof that Mrs Desai and her husband have handed over control of the club to Balaji and Venkatesh and diluted their own shareholding/voting rights to less than the 25% each they previously held, then it appears to tally with the change in track from the club over the last 9-12 months. Suddenly the Bowyer sacking, Lambert appointment, Lambert departure, Coyle appointment, Shaw departure, Myers departure and perhaps most importantly the decision to sell anything of value and reinvest next to nothing in the club all has a source.

We have always been told that Balaji is the only one who has any sort of interest in football and presumably he was the driving force behind the purchase of the club. We also know he's a fairly clueless businessman going off the number of ventures he's gone into a failed with, so we can possibly presume that he is the one determined to keep hold of the club rather than admit defeat even though it is staring him in the face. It wouldn't be the first time in his business career that he's made a complete mess of an investment.

We know that Balaji was the one who spearheaded the takeover in conjunction with Jerome Anderson. He was photographed on numerous occasions during the takeover process at games with Anderson by his side. It was almost certainly Anderson's relationship with Balaji that saw him play such a prominent role post-takeover and everything that followed with Kean. Now Kean wasn't stupid, and he knew that ultimate authority in the Venky empire and the best chance for him to last in the job was to strike up a relationship with Mrs Desai, who ultimately held the pursestrings and could ensure he remained in place. This is what happened and we've heard all sorts of stories over the years about how Balaji wanted to sack Kean but ultimately Desai prevented it because she liked him and his wife. We also know that when Bowyer got the job he knew the best chance he had of getting business done was to go to the top and flew out to speak to her to get answers, and he himself had a decent working relationship with her that lasted more than 2 years.

Lets suppose that by the summer of 2015, with promotion gone and parachute money going, Desai knew that the game was up. She knew that the club would continue to hemorrhage money and was going to need massive further investment to even have a chance of getting back up. After 3 failed attempts at going back up she had had enough of it. She wasn't prepared to carry on with it, she wasn't prepared to continue to allow company funds to underwrite £20 odd million losses any more and certainly wasn't prepared to allow another spending spree to try and get back up. Infact she and her husband might even have decided it was time to sell the club and might have been willing to do business with Seneca. Unfortunately Balaji put a spanner in those works, unwilling to let go of his project, stubbornly believing something can be rescued from this. Because of this position Mrs Desai and her husband have wiped their hands of the club. No more involvement from them. Its Balaji's mess and he can sort it. Hence why all of a sudden everyone is for sale, including golden boy Rhodes who was previously held on to at any price. The reason for this is that money has to be generated from somewhere else with Desai stopping the funding from her side. Alternatively the huge cash raised from player sales might have been Desai's 'pay off' for her to take out as repayment for her previous investment before she relinquished control to Balaji and Venkatesh. Either way, the sudden sea chance in financial model from being able to keep players to selling everyone has coincided with the change in ownership/voting structure.

Lo and behold this also coincides with the end of Bowyer's tenure. We know that Bowyer got the job in May 2013 when he flew out to India and spoke to Mrs Desai directly, and up until the summer of 2015 he was able to speak to her directly and he was safe in his job. My theory is that when Desai's involvement ceased in summer 2015 (as seen by only the financial men going to India rather than Bowyer) then Bowyer became a dead man walking, as he was Desai's man rather than Balaji's.

Interesting that Balaji's right hand man Suhail Pasha has suddenly taken on an active role in the operation of the club since the Summer of 2015 after Desai stepped back from involvement. It left Balaji free to install his own confidant behind the scenes who would report back directly to him and who Balaji would entrust to make decisions. Hence the Bowyer sacking and his replacement with Lambert. Bowyer's days had been numbered since that summer.

I also believe that this change behind the scenes is what caused the departures of Shaw and Myers. I expect both of them had some sort of working relationship with 'madame' who they could try and contact and sort things out with, and with her stepping out of the way and Balaji taking central position they knew it was time to get out.

As the 'football man' of the family, I expect Balaji has at least some sort of puddled understanding of the importance of experience in a football manager. That's why Lambert got the job on the back of his Norwich success, why Coyle got the job on the back of his Burnley success, why Jokanovic was linked last year on the back of his Watford success. Balaji, whilst undoubtedly clueless, at least realises the relevance of the manager in the football operation. That's why we carried out the impressive Lambert appointment. Only problem is that its easy appointing proper managers, but only the desperate ones will put up with a shambolic operation like we've got here.

A lot of things can be explained if the above link is true and Desai and her husband are out of the loop. The managerial changes, player sales, boardroom departures - all make more sense when viewed in this context.

I have to say, that was a good read and possibly spot on with those points. Btw, i was reading, and was like, i hope the next book will be just as good [emoji14]

[OJRovers]

I think it's more of a change in who has control of their top company rather than Rovers who are still 100% owned by VLL who are 100% owned by Venkatesh Pvt Ltd.

So it's a change in control of Venkatesh Pvt Ltd, which will most likely be nothing to do with Rovers, more likely a tax decision within the family.

[chaddyrovers]

JHRover, I think your post is an excellent explantion of whats happened to the club over last 12 months.

I notice that you have said that Balaji is one with the interest in football like I did on Saturday. But notice certain members havent starting having a go at you tho. But no surprise there

[ABBEY]

I was in bed when he posted . Please explain how certain members can reply whilst asleep . .... and you don't do wind up posts do you .

FTR Fat Venky has shown no interest in rovers .

[martonrover]

I've been thinking about this new information over the weekend, and it seems to fill in a few pieces of the puzzle.

If we assume that the document filed is proof that Mrs Desai and her husband have handed over control of the club to Balaji and Venkatesh and diluted their own shareholding/voting rights to less than the 25% each they previously held, then it appears to tally with the change in track from the club over the last 9-12 months. Suddenly the Bowyer sacking, Lambert appointment, Lambert departure, Coyle appointment, Shaw departure, Myers departure and perhaps most importantly the decision to sell anything of value and reinvest next to nothing in the club all has a source.

We have always been told that Balaji is the only one who has any sort of interest in football and presumably he was the driving force behind the purchase of the club. We also know he's a fairly clueless businessman going off the number of ventures he's gone into a failed with, so we can possibly presume that he is the one determined to keep hold of the club rather than admit defeat even though it is staring him in the face. It wouldn't be the first time in his business career that he's made a complete mess of an investment.

We know that Balaji was the one who spearheaded the takeover in conjunction with Jerome Anderson. He was photographed on numerous occasions during the takeover process at games with Anderson by his side. It was almost certainly Anderson's relationship with Balaji that saw him play such a prominent role post-takeover and everything that followed with Kean. Now Kean wasn't stupid, and he knew that ultimate authority in the Venky empire and the best chance for him to last in the job was to strike up a relationship with Mrs Desai, who ultimately held the pursestrings and could ensure he remained in place. This is what happened and we've heard all sorts of stories over the years about how Balaji wanted to sack Kean but ultimately Desai prevented it because she liked him and his wife. We also know that when Bowyer got the job he knew the best chance he had of getting business done was to go to the top and flew out to speak to her to get answers, and he himself had a decent working relationship with her that lasted more than 2 years.

Lets suppose that by the summer of 2015, with promotion gone and parachute money going, Desai knew that the game was up. She knew that the club would continue to hemorrhage money and was going to need massive further investment to even have a chance of getting back up. After 3 failed attempts at going back up she had had enough of it. She wasn't prepared to carry on with it, she wasn't prepared to continue to allow company funds to underwrite £20 odd million losses any more and certainly wasn't prepared to allow another spending spree to try and get back up. Infact she and her husband might even have decided it was time to sell the club and might have been willing to do business with Seneca. Unfortunately Balaji put a spanner in those works, unwilling to let go of his project, stubbornly believing something can be rescued from this. Because of this position Mrs Desai and her husband have wiped their hands of the club. No more involvement from them. Its Balaji's mess and he can sort it. Hence why all of a sudden everyone is for sale, including golden boy Rhodes who was previously held on to at any price. The reason for this is that money has to be generated from somewhere else with Desai stopping the funding from her side. Alternatively the huge cash raised from player sales might have been Desai's 'pay off' for her to take out as repayment for her previous investment before she relinquished control to Balaji and Venkatesh. Either way, the sudden sea chance in financial model from being able to keep players to selling everyone has coincided with the change in ownership/voting structure.

Lo and behold this also coincides with the end of Bowyer's tenure. We know that Bowyer got the job in May 2013 when he flew out to India and spoke to Mrs Desai directly, and up until the summer of 2015 he was able to speak to her directly and he was safe in his job. My theory is that when Desai's involvement ceased in summer 2015 (as seen by only the financial men going to India rather than Bowyer) then Bowyer became a dead man walking, as he was Desai's man rather than Balaji's.

Interesting that Balaji's right hand man Suhail Pasha has suddenly taken on an active role in the operation of the club since the Summer of 2015 after Desai stepped back from involvement. It left Balaji free to install his own confidant behind the scenes who would report back directly to him and who Balaji would entrust to make decisions. Hence the Bowyer sacking and his replacement with Lambert. Bowyer's days had been numbered since that summer.

I also believe that this change behind the scenes is what caused the departures of Shaw and Myers. I expect both of them had some sort of working relationship with 'madame' who they could try and contact and sort things out with, and with her stepping out of the way and Balaji taking central position they knew it was time to get out.

As the 'football man' of the family, I expect Balaji has at least some sort of puddled understanding of the importance of experience in a football manager. That's why Lambert got the job on the back of his Norwich success, why Coyle got the job on the back of his Burnley success, why Jokanovic was linked last year on the back of his Watford success. Balaji, whilst undoubtedly clueless, at least realises the relevance of the manager in the football operation. That's why we carried out the impressive Lambert appointment. Only problem is that its easy appointing proper managers, but only the desperate ones will put up with a shambolic operation like we've got here.

A lot of things can be explained if the above link is true and Desai and her husband are out of the loop. The managerial changes, player sales, boardroom departures - all make more sense when viewed in this context.

A very good post and you may well be on the right lines.

I would take issue with your theory in regard of Coyle's appointment though.

Surely he got the job because he was a cheaper option. No-one with an ounce of football sense would've appointed a guy who has been hopeless for years and had been written off in this country.

There was no justification for the appointment for footballing reasons.

[PLJPB]

I think it's more of a change in who has control of their top company rather than Rovers who are still 100% owned by VLL who are 100% owned by Venkatesh Pvt Ltd.

So it's a change in control of Venkatesh Pvt Ltd, which will most likely be nothing to do with Rovers, more likely a tax decision within the family.

This is correct. The filing at companies house has nothing to do with actual day to day decision making. Rather it is simply who has major shareholdings in the ultimate parent company.

OJ could be right about tax reasons but I would say it's just as likely that someone has made a cock up in the filing. It wouldn't be the first time!

[47er]

It could be that we are over-thinking this. There is no funding available other than what comes from the club itself. When a bill arrives or a loan repayment is due what other source of fund is available other than that a player must be sold to raise cash? Replacement must be loan or freebie. Hence Cairney to Fulham. Hence a summer of selling with nothing spent.

Coyle must be under enormous pressure to persuade Marshall to sign a contract extension! Otherwise we can't sell him!

The question is where does all this take us if not to oblivion? Is that the end-game? Why?

We wonder where all the millions have gone from players transferred out. It is probably funding recurrent expenditure including player wages.

This cannot continue forever, there has to be an end-date when the money runs out.

[tomphil]

That's when they'll start remortgaging the fixed assets and throwing youth in several areas of the team. That will equal league 1 if we aren't already there.

Going off the companies house thing they've stuck about 3 mil in shares in this year and that's it. Think we'll have to get used to that now but hey all this will be easier to carry on implementing in a midtable league 1 club with a tiny wage bill and budget !

[JHRover]

It could be that we are over-thinking this. There is no funding available other than what comes from the club itself. When a bill arrives or a loan repayment is due what other source of fund is available other than that a player must be sold to raise cash? Replacement must be loan or freebie. Hence Cairney to Fulham. Hence a summer of selling with nothing spent.

Coyle must be under enormous pressure to persuade Marshall to sign a contract extension! Otherwise we can't sell him!

The question is where does all this take us if not to oblivion? Is that the end-game? Why?

We wonder where all the millions have gone from players transferred out. It is probably funding recurrent expenditure including player wages.

This cannot continue forever, there has to be an end-date when the money runs out.

On the contrary I imagine Coyle is under no pressure at all to get Marshall tied to a new contract. When January comes round if he hasn't put pen to paper then the club will either have to sell him for a few hundred grand or risk losing him for nothing in the summer. Therefore they will be able to cash in on him and dress it up as having no choice but to let him go in view of his contract situation.

The other way of looking at it is that if Marshall does sign a new deal it suddenly puts interested clubs off bidding for him, whereas at the moment there will undoubtedly be several clubs preparing bids for January. The only pressure Coyle will be under is from within the support base. He's spouted off in the press several times about wanting to keep Marshall and being in discussions over a new deal, so when he's sold for a knock down fee in January one or two will be asking why discussions haven't been finalised by now.

As it happens I don't believe for one single minute that discussions are ongoing or that Marshall has been offered a proper contract extension. Coyle thinks he can string fans along by pretending that an offer is on the table and that a pay rise for Marshall is in the pipeline, I refuse to believe that. I think its more likely to be another Junior Hoilett scenario aimed at dragging the process along. Only when Marshall is unveiled at his next club will the truth emerge when he says that there was never any offer and he wanted to stay but the club did nothing to keep him.

The almost £40 million pocketed in recent times by my reckoning will cover 2 years or so of running costs and wages going off how much we lost in the last set of accounts (wage bill dropping significantly but also a big drop in parachute money), so by this time next year they will need to find another £10-15 million from somewhere to keep things ticking over. They've no doubt dropped the wage bill down to the bottom end of the Championship scale and by next summer we'll only have about 12 players left under contract when all the loans go back.

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens next. The last 3 transfer windows they've picked up £10 million from each. They can forget about that happening in January/next Summer. The way things are going apart from Marshall at his knock down fee and Craig Conway for perhaps a million at most I can't see anyone fetching any money for them, so its time for them to put their hands in their pockets or clear off.

[47er]

They can forget about that happening in January/next Summer. The way things are going apart from Marshall at his knock down fee and Craig Conway for perhaps a million at most I can't see anyone fetching any money for them, so its time for them to put their hands in their pockets or clear off.

That's a happy outcome either way so why am I thinking it won't happen?

[booth]

I imagine Desai and husband where the only reasons for them being deemed fit and proper in the first place, which I know is a joke. So how bad is it now that we have the John Belushi* of the family in charge?

Edit: *minus wit, talent, success or any other redeeming qualities.

[tomphil]

I think it's probably a case of whatever money was available from where ever it came from has been spent. Maybe some has gone back the other way so now there is nowt left she's finally giving baby bro the keys and letting him play with what's left, unsupervised.

[1arC]

Maybe it is wishful thinking, but if Mrs D and her husband want out, then would the Seneca bid not now be acceptable? I am not too sure if that bid is still there, but for the brothers it's a win, won, as they get some funding, don't have to worry about the money for now and also have football people installed as joint owners.

[Madon]

This is a rough idea for design number 1.

Design number 2 should be available soon.

Thoughts?

Sorry wrong thread!!

[MGAndy]

.