[Archived] Meeting With The Club.

[tomphil]

Clear it was just an exercise to comply especially when we went from PLC to Ltd as a club.

https://audioboom.com/posts/2550969-audio-onerovers-finance-director-mike-cheston-speaks-to-andybayes-on-the-clubs-change-to-a-private-company

That's all it was and that's why Burnley Bob was forced out from under his rock because there was no one else in office to be there. All about towing the franchise line and good old Mike put a full day in working on his power point plus.

Bunch a t#ss#ers the lot of them.

[Stuart]

So no obligation in future for an AGM but a commitment to continue to hold an annual meeting [with shareholders] is what I infer.

The trouble is that there is no trust between club and fans so I fear we will need to be reminding club officials of these 'commitments' in future.

A need for a manifesto by proxy?

[1864roverite]

I have exchanged emails with Mr Cheston and I have to say he is the most ignorant of all Rovers staff that I have ever had the pleasure of exchanging views EVER

[tomphil]

This attitude must come from whoever pushes his buttons and it's clear they've been told 'sod em' in regards to fans. Blackburn Rovers the club and it's history, badge, shirt deserves 15 thousand plus everyweek but this present regime deserves an empty stadium.

Not the team, manager or general staff but every arsehole in head office, India and associates wherever they are scattered.

Next season they are in for a right shock in regards to crowds.

[JAL]

Has the club fixed the missing lettering on the wall for Rovers remembrance ?

[Paul]

So no obligation in future for an AGM but a commitment to continue to hold an annual meeting [with shareholders] is what I infer.

?

I think, but I'm not sure, this requirement, that private companies need not hold an AGM, pre dates Venky's. Some companies Articles of Association will still require an AGM to be held.

More detail would be needed to get the definitive answer.

[Jock]

Has the club fixed the missing lettering on the wall for Rovers remembrance ?

I saw a picture this week of the Remembrance Wall at Ewood. The letters have been replaced.

They cost £4 with an administration fee of £200000. Made payable to a fat slimy f__k in Switzerland.

[Stuart]

I think, but I'm not sure, this requirement, that private companies need not hold an AGM, pre dates Venky's. Some companies Articles of Association will still require an AGM to be held.

More detail would be needed to get the definitive answer.

Did you listen to the interview, Paul?

[Paul]

Did you listen to the interview, Paul?

No. I was working from what you thought was inferred.

[MGAndy]

Just as an update on a couple of mentioned topics I have already emailed Mike Cheston and Co and politely reminded them of

A ) The Clubs Charter that states emails will be answered with 3 working days or acknowledgement of email and full response within 14 working days

B ) The commitment to publicise minutes of the Bi annual meeting within 3 working days

I have received a reply from the club saying that they will speak to Mike and Lynsey about the minutes,

I also emailed Mike Cheston asking about the proposed supporter meeting with Suhail Pasha (from the Bi annual meeting) and received a reply from Mike Saying

I have indeed spoken with Mr Pasha on this matter subsequent to the meeting with the supporter groups, and, whilst the next meeting with the supporter groups is scheduled to be in March next year, he has said he will definitely consider a meeting ahead of that time (and will raise this with the owners directly).

Paul, did you ever get a follow up decision on the interim meeting with Pasha?

If not then i suggest everyone turns up to the March meeting wearing cardboard Pasha masks using the unearthed picture.

That would really pish Cheston and R2C off having to be questioned and answer fans in pasha masks.

[pk1875]

Just an update regarding minutes, I / We (BRFCAG) challenged the club regarding minutes only being issued as an audio file and an edited version in the local paper. The emails went as follows..... make up your own mind folks.

Dear Mike,

On behalf of several supporters both members and non-members of the Blackburn Rovers Football Community Action Group. We must raise our concerns at the release of an edited audio file as minutes from the meeting. This is not only unfair but potentially discriminatory on those supporters whom are hearing impaired.

The club has an anti discrimination policy that states "Blackburn Rovers is committed to ensuring everyone is welcome at Ewood Park and it's associated premises. All involved with the club have the right to be treated with respect. The club recognises it has an active role to play in ensuring players, staff,officials,fans, members of the community, partners of other stakeholders value and encourage diversity, promote inclusion and end discrimination. Equally all associated with the club have a role to play contributing to delivering our objectives."

In issuing an edited audio file as minutes the club have not met the standards set in its own discrimination policy and more seriously has excluded sections of the supporter base which is in breach of the Equality Act 2010 which states "As a disabled person, you have rights to protect you from discrimination."

Would it be possible for the club to issue a set of detailed written and signed off minutes, which could be issues on the club website and issued to the groups present to distribute amongst the supporter base. I'm sure you will agree that this wouldn't be a big job and would be in the best interests of all concerned.

Kind Regards

Paul

Dear Paul

Thank you for your email.

I have looked into the matter and sought advice from both the EFL and our Accessibility Officer who have both confirmed they are satisfied that we have covered all areas and have not been discriminatory against supporters who are deaf or hard of hearing.

When we forwarded the audio minutes to those who attended the meeting we also included a summary as published in the Lancashire Telegraph. Given that it took the format of an open forum it would be difficult for any member of staff to accurately minute who and what was said and therefore ahead of the meeting it was agreed that these two platforms would be used to communicate the dialogue between the attendees and club representatives.

The EFL recommends is that there is some form of public record of a consultation be it minutes, audio or a summary article. Given that we communicated it via two different mediums, and the fact that no attendee advised us of any additional needs requiring a reasonable adjustment prior to the meeting, we are confident that we have fulfilled our obligations under The Equality Act 2010 and with regard to our Equality Commitment.

Kind regards

Mike Cheston

[Stuart]

No use playing games with them. They have people paid to respond to things like this.

We just want very simple things, like assurance that the future of the club is in safe hands and that steps are being taken to address poor performance of the first team (e.g. transfer funds). People like Cheston et al saying "Venkys remain committed to the club [because they've not said otherwise]" is not enough of an assurance. Actions speak louder than words.

[JHRover]

Just an update regarding minutes, I / We (BRFCAG) challenged the club regarding minutes only being issued as an audio file and an edited version in the local paper. The emails went as follows..... make up your own mind folks.

Dear Mike,

On behalf of several supporters both members and non-members of the Blackburn Rovers Football Community Action Group. We must raise our concerns at the release of an edited audio file as minutes from the meeting. This is not only unfair but potentially discriminatory on those supporters whom are hearing impaired.

The club has an anti discrimination policy that states "Blackburn Rovers is committed to ensuring everyone is welcome at Ewood Park and it's associated premises. All involved with the club have the right to be treated with respect. The club recognises it has an active role to play in ensuring players, staff,officials,fans, members of the community, partners of other stakeholders value and encourage diversity, promote inclusion and end discrimination. Equally all associated with the club have a role to play contributing to delivering our objectives."

In issuing an edited audio file as minutes the club have not met the standards set in its own discrimination policy and more seriously has excluded sections of the supporter base which is in breach of the Equality Act 2010 which states "As a disabled person, you have rights to protect you from discrimination."

Would it be possible for the club to issue a set of detailed written and signed off minutes, which could be issues on the club website and issued to the groups present to distribute amongst the supporter base. I'm sure you will agree that this wouldn't be a big job and would be in the best interests of all concerned.

Kind Regards

Paul

Dear Paul

Thank you for your email.

I have looked into the matter and sought advice from both the EFL and our Accessibility Officer who have both confirmed they are satisfied that we have covered all areas and have not been discriminatory against supporters who are deaf or hard of hearing.

When we forwarded the audio minutes to those who attended the meeting we also included a summary as published in the Lancashire Telegraph. Given that it took the format of an open forum it would be difficult for any member of staff to accurately minute who and what was said and therefore ahead of the meeting it was agreed that these two platforms would be used to communicate the dialogue between the attendees and club representatives.

The EFL recommends is that there is some form of public record of a consultation be it minutes, audio or a summary article. Given that we communicated it via two different mediums, and the fact that no attendee advised us of any additional needs requiring a reasonable adjustment prior to the meeting, we are confident that we have fulfilled our obligations under The Equality Act 2010 and with regard to our Equality Commitment.

Kind regards

Mike Cheston

Thanks for putting this up. At least you got a response to your email.

That response is nothing short of an outrage.

If the most senior board/staff member at Blackburn Rovers seriously believes that this is acceptable practice then this alone shows why he isn't fit to hold the position he does.

Why on earth does an 'open forum' format prevent accurate minutes being taken? Meetings up and down the country every day take place in similar formats and have minutes taken without problem. From Parliament to board meetings people produce accurate records of meetings for future reference.

He doesn't seem to grasp that a 'summary in the Lancashire Telegraph' is not an acceptable, possibly even reliable account of what went on, and certainly doesn't make up for a lack of minutes taken.

If they want to continue to play games then so be it, but I hope nobody falls for their stunts. For whatever reason they are desperate to avoid officially produced minutes being accessible to all supporters. Hiding behind League regulations in an attempt to fend off calls for proper minutes to be produced is pathetic.

They seem to have no problem producing minutes of the Fans Forum meetings which take place numerous times a year, so how come this is such a problem?

Simple answer is that Cheston has been told that he can't put his signature to a document in which he confirms Pasha is an employee of the club and in which Coar has threatened supporters with legal action.

[Paul]

Did anyone from BRAG or the Trust minute or record the meeting?

[rigger]

Just do not go any more

[pk1875]

Did anyone from BRAG or the Trust minute or record the meeting?

Unfortunately no, not on this occasion, but I feel that for the March meeting we should ensure a full recording and set of minutes are issued. If the club won't then those present should.

[MGAndy]

Unfortunately no, not on this occasion, but I feel that for the March meeting we should ensure a full recording and set of minutes are issued. If the club won't then those present should.

everyone in pasha cardboard masks

some will say dont attend but more to be gained from being there

[Norbert Rassragr]

Maybe a "I'm Pasha/Sparticus" moment should happen. With people wearing paper plates with eye and mouth holes cut out."

"I'm Pasha and so is my wife."

[AggyBlue]

Unfortunately no, not on this occasion, but I feel that for the March meeting we should ensure a full recording and set of minutes are issued. If the club won't then those present should.

That's not the point. Next time they'll get it right.

We wanted the club to officially admit, through the meetings minutes, that Burnley Bob lost his head and threatened court action against a fan for asking awkward questions.

They've got away with it and totally pushed it under the carpet.

[den]

MY EMAILS TO THE EFL AND CLUB.............

Me to the EFL.....

Hi,

Blackburn Rovers FC recently held the first meeting with supporters groups, which they are obliged to hold twice a year in response to the EFL initiative. I didn't attend the meeting, but I am concerned that the club isn't fulfilling their obligation.

Two points. The meeting took place over a month ago, yet there have been no minutes of the meeting published. I have no idea who attended, or what questions were asked. I believe the club have recently been asked for the minutes to be published. The club have said that the recording of the meeting by radio Lancashire will act as the minutes? Surely that's not good enough? Surely the minutes should be published in full and circulated to the attendees and be able to be read by anyone, at any time?

Secondly I'm not convinced that the people representing the club are able to answer relevant questions. Apparently Suhail Pasha is the owners representative and is based in this country, yet he wasn't invited to the meeting. He's the man who people like Mike Cheston (financial director) must talk to the owners through. Pasha hasn't even been announced as a director yet. Why not?

I don't believe the club are committed to holding these meetings in the Frank and open way the EFL want them to be. Can you please ensure that the minutes of the last meeting - and all future ones will be published properly, so that the meetings are properly recorded and are accessible to anyone who wishes to read them?

Regards. Den

Leyland

.................

Hi again Lynsey. I emailed you last Friday asking for a full copy of the minutes of the EFL meeting between the club and fans group/s. I haven't had any kind of reply.

I contacted the EFL and asked them for their views about the fact that BRFC don't seem prepared to publish a full, printed version of the minutes of that meeting. They asked me firstly to go through the clubs channels. I'm trying to do that, but you haven't answered. There is an obvious reluctance from the club to be open and honest about that meeting. Given the mistrust between the fans and the owners and management over the last 6 years, don't you think openness and honesty from the club is one way forward? Therefore, could you please let me have a full copy of the minutes from that meeting? I would like to be able to read a full list of who was there, what questions were raised and what answers were given. I've already told you that there are rumours that one of the fans groups walked out, so I would like to know if that's true - and if it did happen, what caused it. Why are the club avoiding publishing a full account of the minutes? An audio recording of the minutes seems to imply that things are being hidden.

Regards. Den.

............

From Lynsey.....

Thank you for your email. We do ensure we respond within three working days to all correspondence and therefore your email was to be responded to today - unfortunately I was in meetings all day yesterday

I understand your frustration in not having a copy of the written minutes from the meeting. We took a decision that the best way to record these would be to invite both BBC Radio Lancashire and the Lancashire Telegraph to attend in order for these to be independent. I have attached the link from the Lancashire Telegraph. This refers to all the topics discussed on the evening and clearly notes the quotes made by those on the panel, also referring to the incident set out in your email.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/14774858._They_have_no_intention_of_selling_the_club____report_on_Blackburn_Rovers_supporters____consultation_meeting/

I hope this is helpful to you.

Kind regards

Lynsey Talbot

Office Manager

............................

Me.......

Thanks for the reply Lynsey.

You probably think I'm just looking for confrontation, or trouble. I can assure you I'm not.

Look. I believe the EFL initiative that puts the fans into contact with the club's management and allows them to put questions directly to them is an excellent initiative for both the fans and the club. You know as well as I do, that some of the fans, probably many of the fans - don't believe a word that comes out of the club these days. Harsh I know, but it's true. These meetings can go some way to redressing this. Surely Mike Cheston - or whoever is overseeing this EFL initiative realises the need for professionalism and honesty from the club - and doing the simple things like recording proper minutes of these meetings is important?

I'm told that the LT report that you link to doesn't cover the meeting properly and doesn't cover all of the questions asked or the responses. Without being there, I can't possibly know whether that's true or not. It certainly doesn't list the attendees either. I'm not only interested in why the action group walked out, I'm interested in all of the questions and answers. As a supporter of 54 years, why shouldn't I be? I'm sure other fans are interested as well. So the question begs an answer - why won't the club publish full minutes of the meeting? It beggars belief that they won't do it.

......".....................

From Lynsey....

Dear Dennis

Thanks for your further response.

The minutes and record of the meeting that have been released are far more detailed than any written version of the meeting that the Club has released of previous meetings with supports and shareholders. They were also prepared independently, in the case of the audio file, by Radio Lancashire (this is a recording of the programme that went on air on (Radio Lancashire the day following the supporter meeting), and in the case of the written report, by the Lancashire Telegraph. The audio file does not cover the presentation made by Mike Cheston prior to the Q & A because it was felt that, since this was a visual presentation, it would not come across on audio, so a copy of the presentation was also released at the same time as the minutes, for completeness.

It was felt that, were the club to prepare written minutes, then we would be subject to claims of bias and interpretation whatever version was released, and so we felt the release of the audio file as described above addressed that.

However, I take on board your comments and will address this with the various supporter groups prior to the next meeting.

Kind regards

Lynsey Talbot

Office Manager

"...................

Me to Lynsey......

Thanks for the reply Lynsey.

You probably think I'm just looking for confrontation, or trouble. I can assure you I'm not.

Look. I believe the EFL initiative that puts the fans into contact with the club's management and allows them to put questions directly to them is an excellent initiative for both the fans and the club. You know as well as I do, that some of the fans, probably many of the fans - don't believe a word that comes out of the club these days. Harsh I know, but it's true. These meetings can go some way to redressing this. Surely Mike Cheston - or whoever is overseeing this EFL initiative realises the need for professionalism and honesty from the club - and doing the simple things like recording proper minutes of these meetings is important?

I'm told that the LT report that you link to doesn't cover the meeting properly and doesn't cover all of the questions asked or the responses. Without being there, I can't possibly know whether that's true or not. It certainly doesn't list the attendees either. I'm not only interested in why the action group walked out, I'm interested in all of the questions and answers. As a supporter of 54 years, why shouldn't I be? I'm sure other fans are interested as well. So the question begs an answer - why won't the club publish full minutes of the meeting? It beggars belief that they won't do it.

.................

The EFL then replied to this by suggesting that I continued the dialogue with the club.

...........

My reply to the EFL....

Hi Andrew,

There is no more dialogue to have with the club. There is nothing else I can do. I can't put into words how disappointed I am with your stance (or lack of it) on this matter. It seems that you're not prepared to do anything at all about how they refuse to publish the meetings minutes on their own website, or even "advertise" that these meetings are open to all supporters in the first place. Did they link the audio file on the website as you told me they would?

Dennis.

...............

Final reply from the EFL.....

Hello Dennis,

Thank you for your reply.

We understand the club has contacted you to pass on links to the audio of the meeting. To confirm - the link is active on the club website via this link: http://www.rovers.co.uk/fans/fansforum/

And can be listened to directly here: http://tickets.rovers.co.uk/Forum_3009.mp3

Thank you for contacting the EFL.

Regards,

Andrew Pomfret

Supporter Services Department

EFL.

............

Make your own minds up. After all my emails, I finally got the club to put the audio file onto the website (which hadn't happened) - and they put them under the minutes of the fans forum.

[Al]

Did anyone from BRAG or the Trust minute or record the meeting?

I've already asked why someone who was at the meeting doesn't write up the minutes, sign them, publish them and submit them to Rovers for approval. It is important to make them factual so that Rovers cannot pick holes in them.

[ABBEY]

Any mention of coar threatenng court action?

[Norbert Rassragr]

Probably not Abbey. We all know how these things fall between the cracks.

[den]

Any mention of coar threatenng court action?

Yes. In the LT link on my post.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/14774858._They_have_no_intention_of_selling_the_club____report_on_Blackburn_Rovers_supporters____consultation_meeting/

The problem with the club using the LT for minutes, is that it disappears from the front page very quickly.

[47er]

MY EMAILS TO THE EFL AND CLUB.............

Me to the EFL.....

Hi,

Blackburn Rovers FC recently held the first meeting with supporters groups, which they are obliged to hold twice a year in response to the EFL initiative. I didn't attend the meeting, but I am concerned that the club isn't fulfilling their obligation.

Two points. The meeting took place over a month ago, yet there have been no minutes of the meeting published. I have no idea who attended, or what questions were asked. I believe the club have recently been asked for the minutes to be published. The club have said that the recording of the meeting by radio Lancashire will act as the minutes? Surely that's not good enough? Surely the minutes should be published in full and circulated to the attendees and be able to be read by anyone, at any time?

Secondly I'm not convinced that the people representing the club are able to answer relevant questions. Apparently Suhail Pasha is the owners representative and is based in this country, yet he wasn't invited to the meeting. He's the man who people like Mike Cheston (financial director) must talk to the owners through. Pasha hasn't even been announced as a director yet. Why not?

I don't believe the club are committed to holding these meetings in the Frank and open way the EFL want them to be. Can you please ensure that the minutes of the last meeting - and all future ones will be published properly, so that the meetings are properly recorded and are accessible to anyone who wishes to read them?

Regards. Den

Leyland

.................

Hi again Lynsey. I emailed you last Friday asking for a full copy of the minutes of the EFL meeting between the club and fans group/s. I haven't had any kind of reply.

I contacted the EFL and asked them for their views about the fact that BRFC don't seem prepared to publish a full, printed version of the minutes of that meeting. They asked me firstly to go through the clubs channels. I'm trying to do that, but you haven't answered. There is an obvious reluctance from the club to be open and honest about that meeting. Given the mistrust between the fans and the owners and management over the last 6 years, don't you think openness and honesty from the club is one way forward? Therefore, could you please let me have a full copy of the minutes from that meeting? I would like to be able to read a full list of who was there, what questions were raised and what answers were given. I've already told you that there are rumours that one of the fans groups walked out, so I would like to know if that's true - and if it did happen, what caused it. Why are the club avoiding publishing a full account of the minutes? An audio recording of the minutes seems to imply that things are being hidden.

Regards. Den.

............

From Lynsey.....

Thank you for your email. We do ensure we respond within three working days to all correspondence and therefore your email was to be responded to today - unfortunately I was in meetings all day yesterday

I understand your frustration in not having a copy of the written minutes from the meeting. We took a decision that the best way to record these would be to invite both BBC Radio Lancashire and the Lancashire Telegraph to attend in order for these to be independent. I have attached the link from the Lancashire Telegraph. This refers to all the topics discussed on the evening and clearly notes the quotes made by those on the panel, also referring to the incident set out in your email.http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/14774858._They_have_no_intention_of_selling_the_club____report_on_Blackburn_Rovers_supporters____consultation_meeting/

I hope this is helpful to you.

Kind regards

Lynsey Talbot

Office Manager

............................

Me.......

Thanks for the reply Lynsey.

You probably think I'm just looking for confrontation, or trouble. I can assure you I'm not.

Look. I believe the EFL initiative that puts the fans into contact with the club's management and allows them to put questions directly to them is an excellent initiative for both the fans and the club. You know as well as I do, that some of the fans, probably many of the fans - don't believe a word that comes out of the club these days. Harsh I know, but it's true. These meetings can go some way to redressing this. Surely Mike Cheston - or whoever is overseeing this EFL initiative realises the need for professionalism and honesty from the club - and doing the simple things like recording proper minutes of these meetings is important?

I'm told that the LT report that you link to doesn't cover the meeting properly and doesn't cover all of the questions asked or the responses. Without being there, I can't possibly know whether that's true or not. It certainly doesn't list the attendees either. I'm not only interested in why the action group walked out, I'm interested in all of the questions and answers. As a supporter of 54 years, why shouldn't I be? I'm sure other fans are interested as well. So the question begs an answer - why won't the club publish full minutes of the meeting? It beggars belief that they won't do it.

......".....................

From Lynsey....

Dear Dennis

Thanks for your further response.

The minutes and record of the meeting that have been released are far more detailed than any written version of the meeting that the Club has released of previous meetings with supports and shareholders. They were also prepared independently, in the case of the audio file, by Radio Lancashire (this is a recording of the programme that went on air on (Radio Lancashire the day following the supporter meeting), and in the case of the written report, by the Lancashire Telegraph. The audio file does not cover the presentation made by Mike Cheston prior to the Q & A because it was felt that, since this was a visual presentation, it would not come across on audio, so a copy of the presentation was also released at the same time as the minutes, for completeness.

It was felt that, were the club to prepare written minutes, then we would be subject to claims of bias and interpretation whatever version was released, and so we felt the release of the audio file as described above addressed that.

However, I take on board your comments and will address this with the various supporter groups prior to the next meeting.

Kind regards

Lynsey Talbot

Office Manager

"...................

Me to Lynsey......

Thanks for the reply Lynsey.

You probably think I'm just looking for confrontation, or trouble. I can assure you I'm not.

Look. I believe the EFL initiative that puts the fans into contact with the club's management and allows them to put questions directly to them is an excellent initiative for both the fans and the club. You know as well as I do, that some of the fans, probably many of the fans - don't believe a word that comes out of the club these days. Harsh I know, but it's true. These meetings can go some way to redressing this. Surely Mike Cheston - or whoever is overseeing this EFL initiative realises the need for professionalism and honesty from the club - and doing the simple things like recording proper minutes of these meetings is important?

I'm told that the LT report that you link to doesn't cover the meeting properly and doesn't cover all of the questions asked or the responses. Without being there, I can't possibly know whether that's true or not. It certainly doesn't list the attendees either. I'm not only interested in why the action group walked out, I'm interested in all of the questions and answers. As a supporter of 54 years, why shouldn't I be? I'm sure other fans are interested as well. So the question begs an answer - why won't the club publish full minutes of the meeting? It beggars belief that they won't do it.

.................

The EFL then replied to this by suggesting that I continued the dialogue with the club.

...........

My reply to the EFL....

Hi Andrew,

There is no more dialogue to have with the club. There is nothing else I can do. I can't put into words how disappointed I am with your stance (or lack of it) on this matter. It seems that you're not prepared to do anything at all about how they refuse to publish the meetings minutes on their own website, or even "advertise" that these meetings are open to all supporters in the first place. Did they link the audio file on the website as you told me they would?

Dennis.

...............

Final reply from the EFL.....

Hello Dennis,

Thank you for your reply.

We understand the club has contacted you to pass on links to the audio of the meeting. To confirm - the link is active on the club website via this link: http://www.rovers.co.uk/fans/fansforum/

And can be listened to directly here: http://tickets.rovers.co.uk/Forum_3009.mp3

Thank you for contacting the EFL.

Regards,

Andrew Pomfret

Supporter Services Department

EFL.

............

Make your own minds up. After all my emails, I finally got the club to put the audio file onto the website (which hadn't happened) - and they put them under the minutes of the fans forum.

Big, big effort Den. Well done! The lengths you have to go to these days to get any progress, no wonder fans give up.