[Archived] England World Cup Campaign

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Sorry Chaddy, I am a bit lost. What are you asking me in your first sentence? Who else was there, is it? 

Ya, not many people queuing up for the job, but as mentioned above, Southgate would have struggled to get a Championship job. i wouldn't have been happy if we appointed him manager. 

Allardyce was a good appointment, but the corrupt organisation fired him for corrupt behavior, you couldn't make it up. 

No, you don't have the players you used to have, but under the right manager that might not matter.  Being well organised and hard working goes a long way in International football, outside of your top teams like Germany and Spain 

Yes who else was there? 

 

[punerover]

Maybe this is a bit OT but if the England manager gave the "genetic" excuse like Gordon, he would never in a million years get away with it. Saw the Scot-Slov highlights. They were dominating in the first half. God, the Slov defense was awful with all the Scot attacks coming from the left flank. This issue was addressed by the Slov manager at half time when he substituted both the players who were playing on the right flank.(Repas and Struna) I don't know enough about football to call it a masterstroke but it certainly worked for the Slovs. The less said about the goals conceded the better. In this game, the Slov attacker had to bend his head lower in order to head the ball into the net let alone having to jump high(observe the replays closely) The scot defender was not close enough to the attacker and it had nothing to do with physicality. The Scot player was not being hassled nor being pushed. It was just poor positioning. Poor Poor excuse. As for the second goal, when the corner came in, their attacker took the ball at hip level. This had nothing remotely close to do with height. Also, despite being "genetically poor" they were able to score 2 goals. So poor poor excuse. Although managers don't have the advantage of hindsight, substituting the midfielder for attacker (anya for martin)after the goal was scored was not a good idea at all. Sheer luck or tactical genius (i dont know) but the Slovenian substitutions changed the game that the scots seemed to be winning so easily looking at the first half.

[Guest]

If we appointed another Capello or Eriksson, you can bet your house on people complaining about the amount they'd be on, which would be infinitely more than Southgate, and how disappointing they would inevitably be. We'd then come full circle, yet again, and people would be arguing for the manager to be English, and less money paid out from the coffers. Once that happens, we'll once again be unhappy, when we realise that our average international players aren't going further in tournaments, that the media still pokes fun at failure, and that we're only producing narrow victories over international minnows. We'll once again conclude that we must broaden our horizons and cough up more money for another big name manager, regardless of his nationality.

No offence to those who feel passionately that they've identified England's problems and know the solutions, but I find the whole discussion really boring.

For me, international football has always been something that comes around as a fun and exciting event every two years at summer; just something to sit back and enjoy. I love the major tournaments. When they come around, I don't really care who our manager is, how good or bad our players are, how that narrow qualification victory over Lithuania sticks in the craw (which it never did anyway), or hold any anger and frustration over the whole thing. I enjoy the tournaments, and Russia will be no different.

Anyway, we're there, which can be more than said for the likes of Netherlands, Czech Republic, Norway, Austria, Ireland, Romania, Scotland, Turkey, and possibly Croatia and Italy. There are a lot of bigwigs who have already failed. Let's not beat ourselves up too much considering the playing staff that we have, and the playing staff that some of the aforementioned have!

[Bigdoggsteel]

23 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes who else was there? 

 

If you wanted to stay English, after Big Sam, not many other candidates. Hence why you got a manager who wouldn't have gotten a  job in the Championship. Pardew would have been a better choice, but he isn't as clean cut or as much of a brown noser as Southgate 

[chaddyrovers]

27 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

If you wanted to stay English, after Big Sam, not many other candidates. Hence why you got a manager who wouldn't have gotten a  job in the Championship. Pardew would have been a better choice, but he isn't as clean cut or as much of a brown noser as Southgate 

Of course the England manager should be English. We have wasted over 40 million pounds on wages on Capello and Sven

Pardew? Really. 

Like him as a pundit. Speaks well. 

Dont know how you can say he wouldnt have got a job in championship cos we dont know if he wanted to go back into club management. Got screwed over at Boro tbh.

I would like Glenn Hoddle as part of his coaching staff. Good coach..

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Of course the England manager should be English. We have wasted over 40 million pounds on wages on Capello and Sven

Pardew? Really. 

Like him as a pundit. Speaks well. 

Dont know how you can say he wouldnt have got a job in championship cos we dont know if he wanted to go back into club management. Got screwed over at Boro tbh.

I would like Glenn Hoddle as part of his coaching staff. Good coach..

I just couldn't see a Championship club appoint him prior to him getting the England job, could you? Well if you wanted English Pardew has a stronger CV than Southgate, leaving out the youth stuff obviously  

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Who else was they? 

We tried expensive 2 foriegn managers that cost us over 40 million pounds in wages. 

We tried 2 experience England managers in Hodgson and Allardyce. 

We tried a Fan favourite in Kevin Keegan. 

Southgate did a fairly good job with England under 21's and did win the Toulan tournement. 

We dont have the quality of the centre back or midfielders we had in 90's and 00's. 

The quality of the football isnt good but that is to be expected.

I'm pleased to see us playing 3 at the back. 

I wouldnt have Henderson in the team either

Chaddy, he finished bottom of the group in 2015 at the European Championships. Can you please explain how this warrants promotion to the senior team? (apart from his face fitting with the FA)

People like Sean Dyche and Eddie Howe have teams who have identities, and much more limited players in attack.

I'd rather not have a foreign manager but I'd much prefer it to the clown we have now

Why is poor quality football "to be expected?" We may not be a France, Brazil or Spain but we have alot of talent. International football has a much wider spread of quality. You look at countries like Wales, Chile, Colombia, Poland, Croatia, they all have star players but whilst people bemoan our depth, these countries have players in the first team that wouldn't probably get in our squad, but youd fancy all of them to beat us because they have a set style of play and presumably a good manager.

We have Harry Kane, someone whose proven to score as many as Aguero/Lukaku, we have Rashford and Sterling who have been integral to the Manchester clubs this season, you have Dele Alli, one of Europes best players, yet we never have any urgency to get the ball to these players. Even the rest of the team are mainly regulars at clubs like Tottenham, Liverpool, Man City and Man United. Southgates been hiding behind the lack of quality in the squad but hes sapping all the remaining excitement out.

And he plays 3 at the back one game, then 4, and constantly changes and fails to give the team any sort of identity. Is that the hallmark of a good manager?

There is literally no rationale behind your defence of Southgate.

[USABlue]

6 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

He's the new Trevor Brooking. Polite, knows the right blazers, and sucks up to those in power by being nice to their wives. His coaching has nothing to do with his job, he is a 'good chap' who will not complain about the corruption.

England jobs have never been about managerial ability.  Hence some of the better managers through the years have nit been selected.  A certain Mr Clough being the prime example.

[roverandout]

So glad the arrogant welsh are out. The way bellamy dismissed ireland before the game. Sour grapes after. Wales are still one of the smaller football nations and they believed the hype that they were one of the big boys based on one tournament in which they had one player to thank for. They were even top seeds in this group so no exuses. Hopefully they go back to the backwaters of world football.

[chaddyrovers]

14 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Chaddy, he finished bottom of the group in 2015 at the European Championships. Can you please explain how this warrants promotion to the senior team? (apart from his face fitting with the FA)

People like Sean Dyche and Eddie Howe have teams who have identities, and much more limited players in attack.

I'd rather not have a foreign manager but I'd much prefer it to the clown we have now

Why is poor quality football "to be expected?" We may not be a France, Brazil or Spain but we have alot of talent. International football has a much wider spread of quality. You look at countries like Wales, Chile, Colombia, Poland, Croatia, they all have star players but whilst people bemoan our depth, these countries have players in the first team that wouldn't probably get in our squad, but youd fancy all of them to beat us because they have a set style of play and presumably a good manager.

We have Harry Kane, someone whose proven to score as many as Aguero/Lukaku, we have Rashford and Sterling who have been integral to the Manchester clubs this season, you have Dele Alli, one of Europes best players, yet we never have any urgency to get the ball to these players. Even the rest of the team are mainly regulars at clubs like Tottenham, Liverpool, Man City and Man United. Southgates been hiding behind the lack of quality in the squad but hes sapping all the remaining excitement out.

And he plays 3 at the back one game, then 4, and constantly changes and fails to give the team any sort of identity. Is that the hallmark of a good manager?

There is literally no rationale behind your defence of Southgate.

Did Southgate not win the Toulan tournement in 2016? Plus has international football experience as a player..

Eddie Howe has said he didnt want the England manager job. As he was too young as manager for the job.. Clearly you ignore this? 

Kane, Rasford and Ali will be our front 3 now. Sterling rarely performs at this level. But we lack a quality passing midfielders and quality centre half. 

Henderson, Livermore and Winks are clearly quality wise miles behind Gerrard, Scholes and Lampard. 

Plus Keane, Mcguire and Jones are clearly quality wise miles behind Terry, Rio and Campbell..

If we could get Wilshere playing and fit then it would be a great bonus and the ideal passing attacking mid along side Eric Dier. 

Man City and Spurs managers play both 3 and 4 at the back so some players should be good enough to switch system as they are uses to it

My team with everyone fit is

                          Butland

              Jones Stones Cahill

         Tripper Dier Wilshere Rose

                   Rashford Ali

                          Kane

What your opinion on this line up?

Back up 11

                       Hart

         Keane Smalling Mcguire

Walker Henderson Winks Bertend

              Sterling Barkley

                      Vardy

[JacknOry]

Wilshere? Give over.

[J*B]

Jack Wilshere is a fraud. 

[philipl]

Never expected the Republic to pull that one off- O'Neill set his squad up perfectly and it is interesting to watch Duffy when he is not scoring own goals for fun..

In the event, a Welsh equaliser would have eliminated both of them. The weakness of the England Group is illustrated by Slovakia looking likely to be the 9th best 2nd placed country and therefore facing elimination.

There is nothing genetic about the Scots which a few less fried Mars Bars won't fix...

Having said that, I am left reflecting on Iceland marching into the World Cup Finals as winners of a tough group from 330,000 population and Malta scrimping 1 point from England's weak group (440,000 population).

One very obvious difference is probably 4 or 5 inches height per player on average. The Maltese side is well coached and the players have fitness and ability but in the end football is a physical sport and physique counts. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The front page of " Private Eye " had a great cartoon just before the last World Cup. The England players are coming down the steps from the plane in Rio. The cockpit window is open and the pilot is saying to the players - " Shall I leave the engines running lads ? "

They can run the same cartoon next time with the same outcome. I can't recall a less inspiring team playing for England in 50 years.

To win the World Cup you need at least 3 players who'd be in a World 11 and another 2 who might be knocking on the door.  IE in 1966 we had the best goalkeeper in Gordon Banks, the best left back in Ray Wilson and the best sweeper in Bobby Moore. Charlton, Hurst and Ball would be on the edge of that team. 

Today we haven't got anybody in that category.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Wilshere? Give over.

The passing midfielder we got. 

If not Wilshere then who? Rest of line up opinion?

[chaddyrovers]

If Coleman does leave the Wales job wonder if Sam Allardyce would be imterested in job? 

Said he would only be interest in a national team manager job recently

[philipl]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

If Coleman does leave the Wales job wonder if Sam Allardyce would be imterested in job? 

Said he would only be interest in a national team manager job recently

Taffy Allardyce

[roverandout]

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The front page of " Private Eye " had a great cartoon just before the last World Cup. The England players are coming down the steps from the plane in Rio. The cockpit window is open and the pilot is saying to the players - " Shall I leave the engines running lads ? "

They can run the same cartoon next time with the same outcome. I can't recall a less inspiring team playing for England in 50 years.

To win the World Cup you need at least 3 players who'd be in a World 11 and another 2 who might be knocking on the door.  IE in 1966 we had the best goalkeeper in Gordon Banks, the best left back in Ray Wilson and the best sweeper in Bobby Moore. Charlton, Hurst and Ball would be on the edge of that team. 

Today we haven't got anybody in that category.

Kane, alli and rashford would. Walker and butland would be knocking on the door

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, roverandout said:

Kane, alli and rashford would. Walker and butland would be knocking on the door

In the immortal words of John McEnroe - " You cannot be serious  ".

[speeeeeeedie]

13 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Kane, alli and rashford would. Walker and butland would be knocking on the door

I have more hope for England than most but we don't have any world class players at the moment. Kane is decent. Alli and Rashford have potential. The other 2 certainly not - although Walker was our best player at Euro 2016.

Tyrone mentioned a world 11. I'd put the usual suspects of Ronaldo, Suarez, Neymar, Messi, Lewandowski, and even Aguero ahead of Kane. Lukaku is up there too. I'm sure I could find more too if I thought about it for longer.

The last truly "world 11" player England had was Ashley Cole. He'll never be remembered as such due to his media intolerance, his autobiography comments, and his marriage/break up to UK darling Cheryl.

[chaddyrovers]

Walker isnt world class. Butland deffo isn't.

Kane is the one of the best striker in the world. 

Ali and Rashford have huge potential and could be world class in future but arent yet or even close. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

9 hours ago, philipl said:

Never expected the Republic to pull that one off- O'Neill set his squad up perfectly and it is interesting to watch Duffy when he is not scoring own goals for fun..

In the event, a Welsh equaliser would have eliminated both of them. The weakness of the England Group is illustrated by Slovakia looking likely to be the 9th best 2nd placed country and therefore facing elimination.

There is nothing genetic about the Scots which a few less fried Mars Bars won't fix...

Having said that, I am left reflecting on Iceland marching into the World Cup Finals as winners of a tough group from 330,000 population and Malta scrimping 1 point from England's weak group (440,000 population).

One very obvious difference is probably 4 or 5 inches height per player on average. The Maltese side is well coached and the players have fitness and ability but in the end football is a physical sport and physique counts. 

 

Ya, Duffy got man of the match. He cleared over 25 balls into the Ireland box. He was immense, but so were a lot of others. The Burnley 3; Brady, Ward and Hendrick were brilliant as well, along with Meyler and Harry Arter. We play a specific game ,which isn't pretty, but it is hard to play against. Wales bottled it a bit last night, which surprised me. No easy teams in the play-offs though. This seeded craic is just to ensure the big countries get to the word cup. Hopefully we can put a spanner in the works. I would be happy with Denmark or Switzerland. I would not be happy if we got Croatia, Italy or Portugal. Croatia would probably be the team I want least. 

[roversfan99]

16 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Did Southgate not win the Toulan tournement in 2016? Plus has international football experience as a player..

Eddie Howe has said he didnt want the England manager job. As he was too young as manager for the job.. Clearly you ignore this? 

Kane, Rasford and Ali will be our front 3 now. Sterling rarely performs at this level. But we lack a quality passing midfielders and quality centre half. 

Henderson, Livermore and Winks are clearly quality wise miles behind Gerrard, Scholes and Lampard. 

Plus Keane, Mcguire and Jones are clearly quality wise miles behind Terry, Rio and Campbell..

If we could get Wilshere playing and fit then it would be a great bonus and the ideal passing attacking mid along side Eric Dier. 

Man City and Spurs managers play both 3 and 4 at the back so some players should be good enough to switch system as they are uses to it

My team with everyone fit is

                          Butland

              Jones Stones Cahill

         Tripper Dier Wilshere Rose

                   Rashford Ali

                          Kane

What your opinion on this line up?

Back up 11

                       Hart

         Keane Smalling Mcguire

Walker Henderson Winks Bertend

              Sterling Barkley

                      Vardy

As ever you've missed my point. The team has no identity, someone like Dyche would identify that we are poor technically and in terms of creating, but have plenty of pace and dribbling ability wide and a front 2 who score goal after goal, and play a style to get the most from them. If we cant get a Dyche, or even a Howe, then even though a foreigner isnt ideal (and I dont want to hear the cost of hiring Capello and Eriksson for a millionth time), surely an Ancelotti if we could make it happen would be better than having Southgate and literally no chance before we start.

The same players (Rashford, Sterling, Alli) all play 100mph for their clubs, yet for England they dont know their roles, England play boring, slow, side to side, wasting the talents of our best players and highlighting the weaknesses of the worst and that comes from the manager. Line-ups are secondary to style of play. 

I'm not asking for world class players like we have had in the past, I just want our best players to play as they do for their club.

Southgate has a terrible CV chaddy and you know full well that hes only got the job through who he knows, yet constantly blindly defend him. He failed at Middlesbrough. He failed at his only major tournament for the under 21s and having researched that Toulon tournament, it seems an almost irrelevant trophy v under 20 teams.

Your predicted teams are irrelevant under Southgate.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

As ever you've missed my point. The team has no identity, someone like Dyche would identify that we are poor technically and in terms of creating, but have plenty of pace and dribbling ability wide and a front 2 who score goal after goal, and play a style to get the most from them. If we cant get a Dyche, or even a Howe, then even though a foreigner isnt ideal (and I dont want to hear the cost of hiring Capello and Eriksson for a millionth time), surely an Ancelotti if we could make it happen would be better than having Southgate and literally no chance before we start.

The same players (Rashford, Sterling, Alli) all play 100mph for their clubs, yet for England they dont know their roles, England play boring, slow, side to side, wasting the talents of our best players and highlighting the weaknesses of the worst and that comes from the manager. Line-ups are secondary to style of play. 

I'm not asking for world class players like we have had in the past, I just want our best players to play as they do for their club.

Southgate has a terrible CV chaddy and you know full well that hes only got the job through who he knows, yet constantly blindly defend him. He failed at Middlesbrough. He failed at his only major tournament for the under 21s and having researched that Toulon tournament, it seems an almost irrelevant trophy v under 20 teams.

Your predicted teams are irrelevant under Southgate.

Ancelotti? Why would he be interest in taking the England job apart from the money side. Plus dont think he ready to give up day to day football management. Plus linked with Arsenal job recently. 

Plus you are missing the point. Not since England had Glenn Hoddle as Manager have we performance. 

18 years of wasting talent players like Rooney, Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Owen, Joe Cole, Rio, Terry, Ashley Cole. The current crop arent anywhere near that quality. 

You just ignore my line ups if you want but the players I selected and in that formation is the best way to give those players quality playing to their best. 

Read Howe's comments why he didnt want the job. He was clear as days

[roversfan99]

What about Dyche?

Can you please answer why Southgate was the correct appointment in the first place?

And it doesn't matter if we spend the whole game passing slowly around the back where our worst technical players are, allowing our opponents to get in shape and closing up the space for our quick players.

I know they arent but with Kane, Sterling, Alli, Rashford etc we should at least be alot more exciting than we are.