[Archived] England World Cup Campaign

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Absolute bunkum.

As if John Williams took any notice of a Facebook page, sounds like a nodrog fib to me.

Do you think saying "absolute bunkum" before disagreeing with someone enhances your argument somehow? I suppose you must do.

Likeliest scenario in my opinion is Williams had narrowed it down to Allardyce and Ince and favoured Allardyce although not by much. He saw the campaign against Allardyce, unheard of amongst Rovers fans before an appointment has even been made (not even Coyle got that) and decided the decision would provoke unprecedented levels of fan discontentment so went for his close second.

Given the stick Allardyce still got in a scenario where he came to the rescue and saved us from relegation, I think Williams predicted correctly the huge animosity he would have received, and the players by proxy, appointing him right after 3 superb years under Hughes.

That doesn't make Williams weak or easily influenced, just realistic about how badly intense negativity from fans can affect a new start.

It's a paradox that you're so eager to deny it anyway. Seeing as you still clearly hate Sam and think he's a rubbish manager, shouldn't you and others be proud of having influenced events around the Ince appointment and Allardyce sackinh? Sure it nearly plunged us into the abyss the first time and did the job the second time, but from the looks of this thread his haters don't much care. Anything but "hoofball" eh.

[ABBEY]

Absolute bunkum.

As if John Williams took any notice of a Facebook page, sounds like a nodrog fib to me.

Even IF was true it shows JW to be weak and gullible

[Amo]

Even IF was true it shows JW to be weak and gullible

Even if it was true, Williams still could've hired Laudrup.

[AllRoverAsia]

Do you think saying "absolute bunkum" before disagreeing with someone enhances your argument somehow? I suppose you must do.

Likeliest scenario in my opinion is Williams had narrowed it down to Allardyce and Ince and favoured Allardyce although not by much. He saw the campaign against Allardyce, unheard of amongst Rovers fans before an appointment has even been made (not even Coyle got that) and decided the decision would provoke unprecedented levels of fan discontentment so went for his close second.

Given the stick Allardyce still got in a scenario where he came to the rescue and saved us from relegation, I think Williams predicted correctly the huge animosity he would have received, and the players by proxy, appointing him right after 3 superb years under Hughes.

That doesn't make Williams weak or easily influenced, just realistic about how badly intense negativity from fans can affect a new start.

It's a paradox that you're so eager to deny it anyway. Seeing as you still clearly hate Sam and think he's a rubbish manager, shouldn't you and others be proud of having influenced events around the Ince appointment and Allardyce sackinh? Sure it nearly plunged us into the abyss the first time and did the job the second time, but from the looks of this thread his haters don't much care. Anything but "hoofball" eh.

Totally agree

Even IF was true it shows JW to be weak and gullible

It had less than feck all to do with Facebook BACK then

[cmb211087]

I really doubt it had much to do with Facebook as Facebook as a medium was not that popular in 2008.

[Gav]

Do you think saying "absolute bunkum" before disagreeing with someone enhances your argument somehow? I suppose you must do.

It's a paradox that you're so eager to deny it anyway. Seeing as you still clearly hate Sam and think he's a rubbish manager, shouldn't you and others be proud of having influenced events around the Ince appointment and Allardyce sackinh? Sure it nearly plunged us into the abyss the first time and did the job the second time, but from the looks of this thread his haters don't much care. Anything but "hoofball" eh.

My problem with Allardyce has always been the man, his anti Walker rhetoric and general anti Blackburn stuff whilst at Bolton sawed those seeds. But I very quickly started to dislike his footballing methods having watched 2yrs of garbage served up especially away from home.

I've never doubted his managerial capabilities, he gets the job done, what he did at Sunderland last season was tremendous, a remarkable achievement.

At international level you need more in your armory, Allardyce doesn't have that in my opinion, he's just a rehash of all the other same old same old thats gone before him.

Just my opinion and time will tell SKHT.

[Gav]

Just watching the Wales game, its amazing what a tournament does for the fans, they used to have 2 songs, now they've got 22.

Great atmosphere.

Hate the England song, "don't want to go to work...." sung at the cricket now also, rubbish.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Just watching the Wales game, its amazing what a tournament does for the fans, they used to have 2 songs, now they've got 22.

Great atmosphere.

Hate the England song, "don't want to go to work...." sung at the cricket now also, rubbish.

Fully agree about that song. It's someone's else leave it alone. Don't get the national anthem either. Those times have gone. Bit of originality and coordination wouldn't go amiss.

[Ribble Rover]

My problem with Allardyce has always been the man

Interesting as many would see his personality and if you knew him personally, his kindness (apparently a very generous man) as his greatest assets.

Slightly ignorant post.

[A cup of beans]

My problem with Allardyce has always been the man, his anti Walker rhetoric and general anti Blackburn stuff whilst at Bolton sawed those seeds. But I very quickly started to dislike his footballing methods having watched 2yrs of garbage served up especially away from home.

I've never doubted his managerial capabilities, he gets the job done, what he did at Sunderland last season was tremendous, a remarkable achievement.

At international level you need more in your armory, Allardyce doesn't have that in my opinion, he's just a rehash of all the other same old same old thats gone before him.

Just my opinion and time will tell SKHT.

Heard a reference to Big Sam 's football earlier today.

John Brewen discussing England's performance said : " A friend of mine, covered every Blackburn game for a season and said it was the dullest of his life"

As Michael Jackson sang: "You are not alone"

[Gav]

Interesting as many would see his personality and if you knew him personally, his kindness (apparently a very generous man) as his greatest assets.

Slightly ignorant post.

As i said earlier him slagging of Jack and Rovers fans in general whilst at Bolton soured relations.

My old boss was in the family so to speak, the stories from that soured them even more.

[47er]

It was abysmal, the whole country agrees, read the media, do they hold prejudices?

It was worse than last time we played them thats for sure, but like I said last night after the game, its not the managers fault, but it won't be long before we have Caroll leading the front line if that lot last night don't shape up.

Its a load of old bunkum that, I never heard of any protests about appointing Allardyce.

I just did say we played on the floor

Andy Caroll is currently out injured, when he returns we'll probably see plenty of hoof ball den, especially if that lot last night don't shape up.

And all this WHEN WE WON!

[Gav]

Heard a reference to Big Sam 's football earlier today.

John Brewen discussing England's performance said : " A friend of mine, covered every Blackburn game for a season and said it was the dullest of his life"

As Michael Jackson sang: "You are not alone"

Having just had Mark Hughes as manager with the attitude we try to win every game, we give the opposition nothing, great time to be a Rover, most exciting times since the early to mid 90's.

Then Allardyce comes along and saves us from relegation, fantastic, but we then wanted to build on that and it was the same old surrender away from home and get to 40 points as quickly as possible, job done, lets see how far up the league we finish but my jobs done, anything else is a bonus.

Like chalk and cheese those two, give me a Mark Hughes over an Allardyce every day of the week.

Been avoiding an Allardyce debate for 6yrs now and finally got drawn back in.

Thankfully I'm still right, thats all that matters

And all this WHEN WE WON!

Just trying to keep it real 47er.

It was a terrible performance, but we won and thats all that counts at international level....

[47er]

I wish Rovers could put lots of terrible performances in like this!

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I wish Rovers could put lots of terrible performances in like this!

Absolutely, we need a few terrible performances to stay up, that's for sure. I don't know what we're seeing at the moment, is it worse than terrible or better because Sam isn't the manager?

[A cup of beans]

For someone who prides himself being his own man, steadfast in his beliefs, a manager in every sense of the word, his comments on Rooney: "Wayne played where he wanted to," "I can't tell him where to play" are incredible and staggeringly surprising.

He's either got himself caught down a cul de sac and doesn't know how to get out of it, and tried to save face, or he's scared to shatter any confidences so soon in his reign.

Either way, he's showing weakness and confusion.

The opposite of 'Big Sam'

[JBiz]

For someone who prides himself being his own man, steadfast in his beliefs, a manager in every sense of the word, his comments on Rooney: "Wayne played where he wanted to," "I can't tell him where to play" are incredible and staggeringly surprising.

He's either got himself caught down a cul de sac and doesn't know how to get out of it, and tried to save face, or he's scared to shatter any confidences so soon in his reign.

Either way, he's showing weakness and confusion.

The opposite of 'Big Sam'

Or he's trying to motivate an improvement from our most experienced player?

I can't abide by the press twisting of the words on that. Wayne has played enough of these games to know what to do, if he's given a "free role", it's a tactical/motivational decision based on his intention to get the best out of him IMO, not a veteran manager thinking "sod it lets get on't beer and let these lads sort it"...

I've never doubted Rooneys talent, I've only ever been irked by his attitude. I think Sam is the perfect manager to get the best out of him.

Gav - you are right? It's impossible to discuss the merits of a professionals ability to do the job when you have personal dislike to such levels.

In my opinion, you've never been or ever will be right about Allardyce, but at least you are honest enough to admit it's a personal thing, not based on any element of rationale. It's like my inability to listen to placebo, I just can't stick Brian Molko, despite knowing they have some good songs.

The good news is, this can change. Once upon a time, Rob Smith's voice used to drive me crazy but then I heard "Disintegration" and it changed my life...

All Big Sam needs to do is win a World Cup then

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

For someone who prides himself being his own man, steadfast in his beliefs, a manager in every sense of the word, his comments on Rooney: "Wayne played where he wanted to," "I can't tell him where to play" are incredible and staggeringly surprising.

He's either got himself caught down a cul de sac and doesn't know how to get out of it, and tried to save face, or he's scared to shatter any confidences so soon in his reign.

Either way, he's showing weakness and confusion.

The opposite of 'Big Sam'

I think he's just being more honest than managers usually are personally. There's always this impression of managers hovering like a giant over the pitch, pulling strings which the players are literally compelled to obey.

Sometimes you hear holes blown in this idea in post match interviews when managers admit most of what they shout on the touchline, the players can't hear. Or that the only time they can affect proceedings is before the game and at half time. I don't think many managers stand in the technical area barking at every player who strays out of a rigid position. I bet Wenger never did it with his Invincibles.

Rooney is the captain, talisman, easily most senior and probably most aggressive player in the England squad. Guys like that utterly dominate a dressing room and in my opinion it'd be stupid not to be a bit flexible in your set-up to avoid an unnecessary falling out with them. Sam was happy with a draw so at 11 v 11 Rooney playing deep wasn't the end of the world. At 11 v 10 he decided bringing on fresh, quick legs in Ali was a better option than pushing Rooney forward to exploit the man advantage, which it was. So still not a problem.

Like I said I'm at a loss as to the media's obsession and the very, very basic view they seem to have on it. It's a bit like their last obsession: stop playing big club Champions League players who think their England place is guaranteed. So out go Cole, Johnson, Terry, Gerrard, Lampard and in come Lallana, Kane, Vardy, Henderson, Ali and England do even worse in tournaments! The media and their nursery school-level solutions usually amount to nothing. Personally I'd rather Allardyce and Rooney came to an agreement on where he should play than pander to where a bunch of clown journalists think he should.

[Gav]

Or he's trying to motivate an improvement from our most experienced player?

I can't abide by the press twisting of the words on that. Wayne has played enough of these games to know what to do, if he's given a "free role", it's a tactical/motivational decision based on his intention to get the best out of him IMO, not a veteran manager thinking "sod it lets get on't beer and let these lads sort it"...

I've never doubted Rooneys talent, I've only ever been irked by his attitude. I think Sam is the perfect manager to get the best out of him.

Gav - you are right? It's impossible to discuss the merits of a professionals ability to do the job when you have personal dislike to such levels.

In my opinion, you've never been or ever will be right about Allardyce, but at least you are honest enough to admit it's a personal thing, not based on any element of rationale. It's like my inability to listen to placebo, I just can't stick Brian Molko, despite knowing they have some good songs.

The good news is, this can change. Once upon a time, Rob Smith's voice used to drive me crazy but then I heard "Disintegration" and it changed my life...

All Big Sam needs to do is win a World Cup then

I think I've already made it quite clear that Allardyce is very good at what he does, getting 40 points and never building expectations beyond that.

If you want to remain in the premiership he's your man, that is based on an element of rational wouldn't you say?

[ABBEY]

Or he's trying to motivate an improvement from our most experienced player?

I can't abide by the press twisting of the words on that. Wayne has played enough of these games to know what to do, if he's given a "free role", it's a tactical/motivational decision based on his intention to get the best out of him IMO, not a veteran manager thinking "sod it lets get on't beer and let these lads sort it"...

I've never doubted Rooneys talent, I've only ever been irked by his attitude. I think Sam is the perfect manager to get the best out of him.

Gav - you are right? It's impossible to discuss the merits of a professionals ability to do the job when you have personal dislike to such levels.

In my opinion, you've never been or ever will be right about Allardyce, but at least you are honest enough to admit it's a personal thing, not based on any element of rationale. It's like my inability to listen to placebo, I just can't stick Brian Molko, despite knowing they have some good songs.

The good news is, this can change. Once upon a time, Rob Smith's voice used to drive me crazy but then I heard "Disintegration" and it changed my life...

All Big Sam needs to do is win a World Cup then

thanks spat brew over keyboard.

[JBiz]

I think I've already made it quite clear that Allardyce is very good at what he does, getting 40 points and never building expectations beyond that.

If you want to remain in the premiership he's your man, that is based on an element of rational wouldn't you say?

It's about results Gav. Simply putting Sam into that category ignores huge chunk of his career. In one full season with us we finished tenth. That's not just keeping us up is it?

This is a discussion that you can't join in with in an unbiased way - you said it yourself, you don't like him. Debate over.

thanks spat brew over keyboard.

No worries

[Amo]

For someone who prides himself being his own man, steadfast in his beliefs, a manager in every sense of the word, his comments on Rooney: "Wayne played where he wanted to," "I can't tell him where to play" are incredible and staggeringly surprising.

He's either got himself caught down a cul de sac and doesn't know how to get out of it, and tried to save face, or he's scared to shatter any confidences so soon in his reign.

Either way, he's showing weakness and confusion.

The opposite of 'Big Sam'

That's because the Sponsors pick the team.

[A cup of beans]

That's because the Sponsors pick the team.

In this instance, it's hard to argue. His quotes don't add up.

Rooney shouldn't be an automatic pick, due to his experience, leadership or past form. Judged dispassionately, where he is right now, he should be clinging onto his place, at best.

[philipl]

Fully expect England to emerge from this group with a 100% win record. That will be no guide to how we will do in the World Cup Finals.

As for Hamish MacTavish, the Ukranian referee in Malta v Scotand....

[Husky]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37278454

I agree with the guy that 'lost the WC in 1990'.