[Archived] England World Cup Campaign

[Gav]

It's about results Gav. Simply putting Sam into that category ignores huge chunk of his career. In one full season with us we finished tenth. That's not just keeping us up is it?

This is a discussion that you can't join in with in an unbiased way - you said it yourself, you don't like him. Debate over.

He may as well have finished 17th, its all the same to fans really, that was the height of his ambition, job done, did you ever hear him say we're pushing for Europe like Hughes did? did you hell, god forbid he ramped up expectations. ...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/37278454

I agree with the guy that 'lost the WC in 1990'.

Lost the world cup?

Rooney should have been dropped years ago, he offers nothing to the team other than experience.

[Husky]

He may as well have finished 17th, its all the same to fans really, that was the height of his ambition, job done, did you ever hear him say we're pushing for Europe like Hughes did? did you hell, god forbid he ramped up expectations. ...

I always wondered what the hell was the point in pushing for (and getting into) Europe to then play a weakened team in the competition the following season and subsequently get beat - as Hughes did.

[47er]

Gav---that's absurd. It's much better to finish 10th than 17th and you know it.

Moreover, Sam was never given the backing in the transfer market that he should have been. He got to spend what he sold basically.

But no argument from me about Hughes. Absolutely worshipped him. Perfect fit for us but let down by the Walker Trust.

Would have been a wonderful manager for England.

[den]

Suggesting that finishing 10th is not good enough, is pathetic Gav.

[Gav]

Suggesting that finishing 10th is not good enough, is pathetic Gav.

Where did I say it wasn't good enough?

[JBiz]

He may as well have finished 17th, its all the same to fans really, that was the height of his ambition, job done, did you ever hear him say we're pushing for Europe like Hughes did? did you hell, god forbid he ramped up expectations. ...

Lost the world cup?

Rooney should have been dropped years ago, he offers nothing to the team other than experience.

Do I rate Hughes higher? Ofcourse I do. What Mark Hughes achieved here was brilliant. He was one of the few responsible for making our club the best run in the country. There is no bias in me saying that either because we where!

The point is that you cannot debate the pros and cons of something you personally dislike. It's impossible to do it without bias. Did some of our away displays frustrate me? Yes. Did his "less than cavalier" approach at times frustrate? Yes. Did his arrogant interviews irk? Yes.

Despite all that - he's achieved more than you and a few others are willing to accept. I could list them, and people would back them up but you won't accept them! That to me is a bit unfair!

[Mike E]

Where did I say it wasn't good enough?

'It may as well be 17th' implies just that

[Gav]

'It may as well be 17th' implies just that

No it doesn't, but carry on.

[USABlue]

Myth? Just because you don't remember the circumstances KH, doesn't mean it was a myth. John Williams spoke to Allardyce about the job before appointing Ince. He was quoted in the LT, at the time of all the Facebook and local media abuse that Sam was getting, saying he'd spoken to Sam and told him that it probably wasn't the right time. He went for Ince then realised he should have taken no notice of the hate brigade. Not appointing him then, almost cost us our PL status at that point. That's just before sacking him actually did cost us our PL status.

Thank you den, my memories fading but I thought it was the case. But of an uproar.

[Mike E]

No it doesn't, but carry on.

It does. Your direct reply to someone saying he finished tenth with us in his only full season was that it may as well be 17th.

Or are you suggesting that 17th is as good as 10th?

I apologise if I haven't grasped what you meant and if I've misunderstood, will you please clarify the point?

[Gav]

It does. Your direct reply to someone saying he finished tenth with us in his only full season was that it may as well be 17th.

Or are you suggesting that 17th is as good as 10th?

I apologise if I haven't grasped what you meant and if I've misunderstood, will you please clarify the point?

Certainly.

When Mark Hughes was manager he would usually say his goal for the season was European qualification and a good cup run. The fans came to the first game of the season on the same page as the manager and we gave every game 110% win lose or draw, Europe here we come

Allardyce came into each season saying how we needed to finish at least 4th bottom, and for a club like ours 40 points has always to be the aim. As a fan you were left under no illusions that games away at Old Trafford, Anfield and The Emirates wouldn't be winable in Allardyce eyes, so would set the team up not to lose, as 40 points was the aim.

So finishing 4th bottom or 10th didn't matter under Allardyce because we never tried to qualify for Europe under him, that was never the aim, almost impossible due to his approach to certain games.

[jim mk2]

Whinge all you like Gav, we'd still be in the Prem now if Sam were our manager - with or without Venky's.

The Allardyce haters bring to mind the Charlton fans who forced out Alan Curbishley - and look where they are now.

[JBiz]

Certainly.

When Mark Hughes was manager he would usually say his goal for the season was European qualification and a good cup run. The fans came to the first game of the season on the same page as the manager and we gave every game 110% win lose or draw, Europe here we come

Allardyce came into each season saying how we needed to finish at least 4th bottom, and for a club like ours 40 points has always to be the aim. As a fan you were left under no illusions that games away at Old Trafford, Anfield and The Emirates wouldn't be winable in Allardyce eyes, so would set the team up not to lose, as 40 points was the aim.

So finishing 4th bottom or 10th didn't matter under Allardyce because we never tried to qualify for Europe under him, that was never the aim, almost impossible due to his approach to certain games.

Priority for a club that was at the point of being nearly 95% wage to turnover was survival. You forget to mention the lack of investment and the near relegation after Hughes, who had how many years to develop the team and club?

I can't fathom your point. We didn't "attempt to win" some away games at top teams granted - but how many times did we lose at home under Sam? 4 in 18 months? We also beat many teams around us away, two of the best wins being last minute at pool and the obvious - at Turf, which realistically could be the last time we beat them in years...

So he prioritised fixtures, many managers do. I can't see any merit in the idea that he was a poor Rovers manager based on "attempting to qualify for Europe"... Are you aware of how Bolton went from Burnden to a Stadium? Do you know they played in Europe? Isn't it plausible that, with time, he could've achieved the same with us?

[Mike E]

Certainly.

When Mark Hughes was manager he would usually say his goal for the season was European qualification and a good cup run. The fans came to the first game of the season on the same page as the manager and we gave every game 110% win lose or draw, Europe here we come

Allardyce came into each season saying how we needed to finish at least 4th bottom, and for a club like ours 40 points has always to be the aim. As a fan you were left under no illusions that games away at Old Trafford, Anfield and The Emirates wouldn't be winable in Allardyce eyes, so would set the team up not to lose, as 40 points was the aim.

So finishing 4th bottom or 10th didn't matter under Allardyce because we never tried to qualify for Europe under him, that was never the aim, almost impossible due to his approach to certain games.

I see. Well I actually agree with all of that apart from believing Allardyce was nearer to our normal, while Hughes was simply spectacular (my best years as a fan).

[JBiz]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I_GdNhNp6FY

Will cheer up anyone with an hour or so to spare.

[47er]

Certainly.

When Mark Hughes was manager he would usually say his goal for the season was European qualification and a good cup run. The fans came to the first game of the season on the same page as the manager and we gave every game 110% win lose or draw, Europe here we come

Allardyce came into each season saying how we needed to finish at least 4th bottom, and for a club like ours 40 points has always to be the aim. As a fan you were left under no illusions that games away at Old Trafford, Anfield and The Emirates wouldn't be winable in Allardyce eyes, so would set the team up not to lose, as 40 points was the aim.

So finishing 4th bottom or 10th didn't matter under Allardyce because we never tried to qualify for Europe under him, that was never the aim, almost impossible due to his approach to certain games.

All through much of last season Ranieri stated his aim was to get to 40 points, even when it was obvious his team were in the mix for the Premiership!

Yet it didn't stop them winning it.

I think you've made some daft comments Gav and can't see a way out!

[Gav]

Its all about opinions 47er and the majority of 'daft comments' you think I've made I probably never did, but thats the nature of this site these days.

For the record I hope we win the world cup and Allardyce becomes a national hero.

[47er]

Yes but you are dodging the Ranieri reference which was the CENTRAL point of my post! And that's the nature of this site these days too!

You have condemned Allardyce for having modest ambitions at the start of the season but can't criticise Ranieri for it cos he won the title!

Anyway time to give it a rest eh?

[Mike E]

Yes but you are dodging the Ranieri reference which was the CENTRAL point of my post! And that's the nature of this site these days too!

You have condemned Allardyce for having modest ambitions at the start of the season but can't criticise Ranieri for it cos he won the title!

Anyway time to give it a rest eh?

There is a difference though.

Allardyce - it was his actual aim every season, although 40 points ASAP is no bad thing imo.

Ranieri - purely to take the pressure off his players imo and worked wonders.

[perthblue02]

England kit deal with Nike in jeoparday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3778428/England-kit-deal-jeopardy-Euro-2016-disaster-sent-replica-kit-sales-tumbling.html

Blamed on the euros, so nothing to do with it looking like a 5 year olds baseball shirt then.

Poor Nike screwed over umbro to get their hands on the England deal and its not working out

[47er]

There is a difference though.

Allardyce - it was his actual aim every season, although 40 points ASAP is no bad thing imo.

Ranieri - purely to take the pressure off his players imo and worked wonders.

If we are taking about Newcastle--on the road to relegation, Rovers almost relegated, West Ham--first season back in Premier league, Sunderland--miracle needed to stay up then 40 points is no modest aim.

Its an achievement. Had he managed Manure 40 points would not have been his aim!

[speeeeeeedie]

England kit deal with Nike in jeoparday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3778428/England-kit-deal-jeopardy-Euro-2016-disaster-sent-replica-kit-sales-tumbling.html

Blamed on the euros, so nothing to do with it looking like a 5 year olds baseball shirt then.

Poor Nike screwed over umbro to get their hands on the England deal and its not working out

That's poor from Nike.

The kit was awful, and expensive. Plain and simple. They used their boilerplate template and pushed as many out as they could. It was nearly identical to the USA Copa America kit.

It should be; plain white top, dark navy shorts, white socks.

[AllRoverAsia]

If we are taking about Newcastle--on the road to relegation, Rovers almost relegated, West Ham--first season back in Premier league, Sunderland--miracle needed to stay up then 40 points is no modest aim.

Its an achievement. Had he managed Manure 40 points would not have been his aim!

The sooner people accept that Sam can walk on water the better they will sleep at night.

[onlyonejackwalker]

There is a difference though.

Allardyce - it was his actual aim every season, although 40 points ASAP is no bad thing imo.

Ranieri - purely to take the pressure off his players imo and worked wonders.

Ranieri's target was also 40 points. The same as this year. Survival is the aim of about 15 clubs in that division. Note I said clubs. Not managers. They would all love to wax fortunes and try and win the league.

Citing Leicester as an example is quaint. What about the other 40 years or so since Forest managed it? It is hardly representative of normal events.

[joey_big_nose]

Allardyce's comments about Rooney are so bizarre there has to be a reason for it. My guess is Allardyce has decided confidence boosting the players is the way forward. Will be interesting to see how he handles press conferences going forward.