[Archived] Are We Entering The Final Phase?

[broadsword]

If they're looking at selling off part of the land then either they're desperate and running out of money or they're cynical and smashing as much money out of the club as possible before exiting. I'm not sure about the possibility of being left to rot.

Isn't it strange how they struggle to agree on a decision when it comes to prong money in, bit have no such problems when it comes to taking money out.

I think it will all come to a head in eighteen months. It won't be pretty at all, we may even get folded

[RevidgeBlue]

You're still obviously very bitter about Lambert selling Rhodes Rev. That happened in January and I'll tell you again that from that point, results on the field improved.

The big change occurred in the summer when Lambert asked for money to move the club forwards, was refused and was allowed to walk away. It was a policy change from the owners and had nothing to do with Rhodes leaving.

I'm not the one obssessed with Rhodes den. The figures have been done to death. Any improvement post Rhodes was extremely marginal and performances and results weren't good enough under any combination of Bowyer or Lambert either with or without Rhodes.

Plus, in our first full season without him we appear to be marooned to the foot of the table.

[philipl]

I am absolutely certain there are far too many skeletons and Rovers fans too strong and influential (for getting an official inquiry set-up) for Venky's to consider administration as anything other than an absolutely last gasp option.

I have no idea what Venky's have got in mind. Their actions are asset stripping pure and simple but that doesn't automatically presage a disposal. A club of Rovers' size would probably break even in League 1 or League 2 without any ownership injections.

What is essential is that Rovers supporters make the Venky's tenure as uncomfortable as possible so a sale becomes more likely and whoever comes in knows without any shadow of a doubt that the supporters are forces to be reckoned with.

[Lancaster Rover]

I think a club the size of Rovers and with its infrastructure would absolutely haemorrhage money in league 1. and that's with all our assets being owned, if we were to be put into a position where we are renting facilities then the numbers just don't stack up. You look at other clubs where that's happened i.e. Coventry and Stockport and look at how its panning out for them.

[RevidgeBlue]

A cynic might say the Rovers Trust think so, hence the jockeying for position.

I think when they sacked Bowyer they still thought promotion was a possibility. I think they've now given up and are happy just to let the club tick over. If they are happy to let us get relegated then they'll keep Coyle in situ. The next few weeks will tell us what their future intentions are.

One last desperate attempt for promotion with the appointment of a Warnock-type figure and then a sale in the summer if it fails would be my guess. Unless of course there are reasons they can't sell...

As regards your second para the "last roll of the dice" scenario occurred nearly 12 months ago by appointing Messrs. Lambert/Irvine and Kelly didn't it?

I'd be astounded if they went down the same route a second time. They appear to have given up on us to me.

[den]

I'm not the one obssessed with Rhodes den. The figures have been done to death. Any improvement post Rhodes was extremely marginal and performances and results weren't good enough under any combination of Bowyer or Lambert either with or without Rhodes.

Plus, in our first full season without him we appear to be marooned to the foot of the table.

Yes you are obsessed with Rhodes Rev, every post you make these days is about Lambert. I only reply to misguided comments from people about him nowadays. Obviously you despise Lambert for selling Rhodes, but I now get your argument Rev.

You think that if Lambert had kept Rhodes, we'd have been pushing for promotion. That's why you say Lambert "played us out of a play off position" - because he sold Rhodes. There's absolutely nothing to even suggest that Rhodes ever had the ability to get us up there.

By continually harbouring those beliefs, you're blinding yourself to what the real reasons for the current state of affairs are.

[davulsukur]

I think a club the size of Rovers and with its infrastructure would absolutely haemorrhage money in league 1. and that's with all our assets being owned, if we were to be put into a position where we are renting facilities then the numbers just don't stack up. You look at other clubs where that's happened i.e. Coventry and Stockport and look at how its panning out for them.

My big worry would be the funding of our academy/training ground. We actually have decent facilities but sustaining those in League 1 might be too much?

[Gav]

Yes you are obsessed with Rhodes Rev, every post you make these days is about Lambert. I only reply to misguided comments from people about him nowadays. Obviously you despise Lambert for selling Rhodes, but I now get your argument Rev.

You think that if Lambert had kept Rhodes, we'd have been pushing for promotion. That's why you say Lambert "played us out of a play off position" - because he sold Rhodes. There's absolutely nothing to even suggest that Rhodes ever had the ability to get us up there.

By continually harbouring those beliefs, you're blinding yourself to what the real reasons for the current state of affairs are.

Pot and kettle springs to mind...

[RevidgeBlue]

Yes you are obsessed with Rhodes Rev, every post you make these days is about Lambert. I only reply to misguided comments from people about him nowadays. Obviously you despise Lambert for selling Rhodes, but I now get your argument Rev.

You think that if Lambert had kept Rhodes, we'd have been pushing for promotion. That's why you say Lambert "played us out of a play off position" - because he sold Rhodes. There's absolutely nothing to even suggest that Rhodes ever had the ability to get us up there.

By continually harbouring those beliefs, you're blinding yourself to what the real reasons for the current state of affairs are.

You make arguments up for me and put words in my mouth if you like den. We'd obviously played our way out of play off contention long before Rhodes was sold.

Just as I wasn't trying to make a point about Lambert earlier I was trying to make a point about the owners rather than turn it into another debate about Rhodes merits.

For the sake of argument had Hanley been our most valuable (money wise) player and not Rhodes and he'd been sold on the last day of the transfer window I'd be making exactly the same point.

[Gav]

My big worry would be the funding of our academy/training ground. We actually have decent facilities but sustaining those in League 1 might be too much?

Word has it Venkys have certain agents looking for accademy kids to flood the place hoping to fulfill their vision and make a few quid.

So they're not looking to exit if that's true.

[broadsword]

Jesus wept, chatting about Lambert and Rhodes like these two are our biggest problem.

God, let it bloody go man.

[Jock]

They're going for the Scorched Earth Policy. There won't be anything left when the Vultures have gone.

[Lancaster Rover]

My big worry would be the funding of our academy/training ground. We actually have decent facilities but sustaining those in League 1 might be too much?

There is absolutely no way we would be able to sustain the academy in league 1, it would be a two fold problem as the costs of running it would be prohibitive and the quality of players we would attract would mean it wouldn't have the income potential as it does now.

[tomphil]

Word has it Venkys have certain agents looking for accademy kids to flood the place hoping to fulfill their vision and make a few quid.

So they're not looking to exit if that's true.

That's the most terrifying scenario for me if they are stripping it all back to the bare bones then continuing to fund the academy whilst the first team funds itself from the clubs income.

You can just see it now the lightbulb going off in Barrys head after the usual crims have been blowing I his ear. A grand vision of building the club up with nothing but youth and young freebies then a conveyer belt of players filling the squads and bringing in nice fees. Just the type of thing the project partners would recommend, plays right into their hands of moving players and gaining commissions. Cheap for V's at a few mill a year with a kick back everytime a player s sold for decent money.

Except it just won't work or every club would be doing it. They'll end up funding an large expensive academy operation that turns out players for lower league clubs for a few hundred grand whilst the lightweight underfunded first team continues to plummet down the leagues.

Whether it's next March or March 2021 this club will eventually go bust under these lot it's been on the cards since they first began and it's written in the stars.

[Lancaster Rover]

That's the most terrifying scenario for me if they are stripping it all back to the bare bones then continuing to fund the academy whilst the first team funds itself from the clubs income.

You can just see it now the lightbulb going off in Barrys head after the usual crims have been blowing I his ear. A grand vision of building the club up with nothing but youth and young freebies then a conveyer belt of players filling the squads and bringing in nice fees. Just the type of thing the project partners would recommend, plays right into their hands of moving players and gaining commissions. Cheap for V's at a few mill a year with a kick back everytime a player s sold for decent money.

Except it just won't work or every club would be doing it. They'll end up funding an large expensive academy operation that turns out players for lower league clubs for a few hundred grand whilst the lightweight underfunded first team continues to plummet down the leagues.

Whether it's next March or March 2021 this club will eventually go bust under these lot it's been on the cards since they first began and it's written in the stars.

That model is basically what prem clubs have been operating since EPP was brought in, incurring huge losses on academies each year. It only 'works' in the prem due to the vat amounts of money and the pressure put on them to operate their academies by the PL. There is a reason lots of Lg 1 and Lg 2 clubs abandoned their academies once EPP was brought in.

[The_Expert]

The Raos just see us as an embarrassing mistake now, and other than wanting to kick us for venting our frustration with their failure in public, they have to all intents and purposes already walked away from Blackburn Rovers.

They are despicable scum.

Venkys OUT!!

[OJRovers]

I've got a feeling that they have a clause in the over-riding agreement with Cresendo that says that if Venkys want to sell the club they must make-good the other parties involved. Hence why they are trying to flog the club at a ridiculous price. I'm guessing that the cheaper option for them is to continue to hold the club, take as much money out as possible whilst putting none in. Maybe there's a time deadline on the Cresendo agreement? 10 years?

[ABBEY]

Would be OK if they had walked away but they aint

[tomphil]

That model is basically what prem clubs have been operating since EPP was brought in, incurring huge losses on academies each year. It only 'works' in the prem due to the vat amounts of money and the pressure put on them to operate their academies by the PL. There is a reason lots of Lg 1 and Lg 2 clubs abandoned their academies once EPP was brought in.

Exactly, although we've turned out the odd biggie now and again there was a time not long ago that the bottom two leagues were littered with players that came through out academy but didn't make it here. Also I'm sure the Duffs & Dunns etc were more a product of the old youth system rather than coming through the academy from scratch.

Thing is though if your only after getting players through good enough to sustain lge 1 or 2 standard and being happy to fund it whilst you find your odd gems and flog players cheaply to other lower league clubs regularly to pay bills it puts a different slant on it worryingly. Just the kind of plan that the agents would sell to their sponsors and the kind that would appeal to a pile em high sell em cheap Indian mentality.

just like a chicken rearing unit !

[Dunnfc]

Exactly, although we've turned out the odd biggie now and again there was a time not long ago that the bottom two leagues were littered with players that came through out academy but didn't make it here. Also I'm sure the Duffs & Dunns etc were more a product of the old youth system rather than coming through the academy from scratch.

Thing is though if your only after getting players through good enough to sustain lge 1 or 2 standard and being happy to fund it whilst you find your odd gems and flog players cheaply to other lower league clubs regularly to pay bills it puts a different slant on it worryingly. Just the kind of plan that the agents would sell to their sponsors and the kind that would appeal to a pile em high sell em cheap Indian mentality.

just like a chicken rearing unit !

True Phil Jones & Grant Hanley was mainly down to Hughes switching/changing the academy set up.

[47er]

As much as I think a lot of the things that are going on behind the scenes are against FA, EFL rules and morally reprehensible I don't think they are actually breaking any laws that would particularly interest national and/or international crime agencies.

The documents released and those that are said to be circling are pretty damning toward the management or lack of at Rovers and some very shady agreements with agents, use of different companies as investment (or not) vehicles but none of them point to illegality, christ they barely even break any Company Law. We all have suspicions about betting syndicates but that is virtually impossible to ever prove and to get a link back to the owners is never ever going to happen. As much as its painful to us, buying a club, stripping it of assets and letting it rot is not illegal, its the prerogative of the owners unfortunately.

And that is what is wrong with English football. Those in power disregard the connection between the clubs and their communities.

It should not be a personal toy for a spoilt owner to play with.

There are community and family connections in English football that go back decades. This ought to count for a lot. It's pi**ing all over our history.

I'm not the one obssessed with Rhodes den. The figures have been done to death. Any improvement post Rhodes was extremely marginal and performances and results weren't good enough under any combination of Bowyer or Lambert either with or without Rhodes.

Plus, in our first full season without him we appear to be marooned to the foot of the table.

And Rhodes can't get a game!

[Lancaster Rover]

Exactly, although we've turned out the odd biggie now and again there was a time not long ago that the bottom two leagues were littered with players that came through out academy but didn't make it here. Also I'm sure the Duffs & Dunns etc were more a product of the old youth system rather than coming through the academy from scratch.

Thing is though if your only after getting players through good enough to sustain lge 1 or 2 standard and being happy to fund it whilst you find your odd gems and flog players cheaply to other lower league clubs regularly to pay bills it puts a different slant on it worryingly. Just the kind of plan that the agents would sell to their sponsors and the kind that would appeal to a pile em high sell em cheap Indian mentality.

just like a chicken rearing unit !

The plan falls down though if we are no longer in the Championship, if we are relegated the academy will almost certainly lose its current status and we will be playing in the central league rather than the premier development league, so the kids coming to us will have been turned down by every prem and champ club, which when you look at the amount of kids they take a punt on each year it gives us an insight into the sorts of scholars we would be signing.

At the moment prem and champ clubs are largely turning out players fit for lg 1 and lg 2 with lg 1 clubs turning out conference players, by the time all the prem and championship clubs have had their pick of the kids, each club taking on roughly 30 scholars a year, circa 1300 kids, whats left is generally the dross that has little to no hope of making a career from football. Those are the kids we will be looking at, for venkys plan to make money from selling kids to lower league clubs we need to be in the championship at least.

[Mercer]

I think it's almost certain that our next owners will be Asian, most likely Chinese.

[philipl]

I think it's almost certain that our next owners will be Asian, most likely Chinese.

The Chinese are going big- look at the Liverpool offer.

It is such a shame the Trust could not have hung on for a few years longer. We wouldn't have been relegated from the Premier League, would not have been tainted and destroyed by Crescendo and we would now be looking at new owners who could be capable of reviving past glories.

Too many supporters got on the backs of the Trust in my opinion and have duly been rewarded by this horrific mess.

[eddy11d]

I've got a feeling that they have a clause in the over-riding agreement with Cresendo that says that if Venkys want to sell the club they must make-good the other parties involved. Hence why they are trying to flog the club at a ridiculous price. I'm guessing that the cheaper option for them is to continue to hold the club, take as much money out as possible whilst putting none in. Maybe there's a time deadline on the Cresendo agreement? 10 years?

They are trying to flog the club at a ridiculous price? Have I missed something?