[Archived] Hmrc

[Iceman]

So somebody mentions VLL could be investigated, but how does this affect Rovers?

My understanding, is that this could potentially see us put into administration/docked points. Would this see Venkys jump ship, or will we see them continue to give us a hard time.

Whether those rumours are true, and HMRC will investigate,will you be happy to see the club go into administration, but not knowing if Venkys will leave?

[gumboots]

Surely an hmrc investigation will open several cans of worms

[Roverall]

Is this really happening?

[47er]

If HMRC find "irregularities" and impose significant fines, I 'm guessing that would be the end for Venkys.

They clearly don't have the cash to pay it and there's little to sell.

What happens to Rovers is then up to all of us. One way or another!

[gumboots]

Is this really happening?

Rumours

[JohnD]

Is this really happening?

As it's on here it is highly unlikely

[wolfie]

As it's on here it is highly unlikely

Why's that then?

[DE.]

As it turns out, a lot of what was posted on here in the past and dismissed as "conspiracy theories" by a certain group of posters turned out to be pretty close to the truth in the end.

If there is an investigation, we should hear more about it in the coming days from the usual people.

[StaffsRover]

I will stand corrected if this isn't accurate, but this is what I believe, IF the reported investigation is taking place. Should the HMRC find irregularities in the books or, as is more commonly the case with them, unpaid or owing taxes; the usual course would be a time-limited demand for payment and sale of assets if not forthcoming or, worst case scenario, a winding up order. This would seem, at first glance, to be a very scary proposition but, for Venky's London Ltd. BRFC is all they have to sell, as they were set up specifically to own the club. So what is there to sell? Ewood Park? Brockhall? They can't!! Both are held under a Covenant with the Walker Estate and therefore not an 'asset' of VLL.....thank God! So would the result be a winding up order and official receivership? Yes, probably! Would the receivers be able to find a buyer?? Believe it or not, they would probably find MANY interested parties because the only reason no one appears to want the club now is 1) the Raos refuse to sell and 2) they would want to cover the £120 million losses PLUS some profit on top, if they did. That will never happen under normal circumstances but, in reality, all the HMRC will want in return for a sale would be a recouping of the money owed. There is absolutely no way that this can be anything like the debt and would, itself, undoubtedly make the club a much more attractive proposition and, at the same time, rid us of Venkys. If the issue is financial irregularities then, once again, they could force VLL to liquidate, selling all there assets......and yes, AGAIN, they only have BRFC. In reality, their attempts to distance VLL from their International assets, would actually work in our favour, as they could not be used as a lifeline to get them out of the shtuck! What about the Bank of India??? BEAUTIFULLY, they CAN attack the Indian's at home because it is, as far as they are concerned, a domestic issue and as they wouldn't be able to recoup their money from what there is to sell at Rovers. They would therefore simply start taking their chickens and eggs! So a dream scenario would be a winding up order from HMRC, followed be a domestic assault in their home assets by the Bank of India. Negatives? Well, we would almost certainly have to take a 10 point hit if we go into administration. Positives? Well they are obvious....Venkys gone and their business destroyed! At the end of the day, I guess it's just whether you feel the 10 point loss, leading to almost certain relegation, would be worth the end of the Indian nightmare. That's one I will leave with you all to decide.

I forgot to add that, off course, the HMRC could declare VLL bankrupt and, of course, would mean all the current owners and directors would be barred from owning the club anyway! I will stop now as I am making this dream scenario and, as with all rumours, it will likely come to nothing. We can but dream!

[old darwen blue]

Completely worth it pal.

[StaffsRover]

Indeed it is!

[Darth Paul]

Been waiting for this to break for ages and I always felt the key to open the door to their downfall was around a term known as 'switching' used to avoid players paying tax when they change clubs.

I am far from an expert but lets suppose at the last minute if the club 'switches' the tax liability from the player onto themselves via the agent, and receives an off the record kickback from the player or agent, then everyone wins...except the club of course who are out of pocket. May or may not implicate some players past and present as well as the Agency which is the common denominator in all this but it all fits perfectly.

Google the Gavin McCann transfer to Bolton to see an example of this...and guess who the agent was.

Couldn't get a single bit of feedback when I posted to suggest this before, but after hours of digging and following a not so well hidden trail of articles and information online this all started to make a lot of sense...anyone have a view?

[Darth Paul]

I must add that all of this has been complete guesswork and as I am not a tax expert I might not be totally on the mark but I am convinced I am in the right area.

The time, emotion and late nights I have put into all this behind the scenes contributed (in part) to me ending up in A and E on an ECG a few weeks ago, and I had to take a step back from this board, and any involvement in general, on doctors orders. However if I am right I will feel totally vindicated for getting myself into this state.

I really hope this is the start of the recovery for the club, regardless of the 10 point deduction, as I am unconvinced anything else being attempted by the fans is going to work, despite my support for the effort.

[47er]

I do remember your original post. I thought "this is interesting, wonder what switching is?"!

Meant to ask you but never got round to it. Sorry.

So, you could well be on the right track. But don't kill yourself following it up will you?

We are going to need every fan we can get. Soon I hope!

[McClarky]

Ten points or Venkys. No brainer really.

[MarkBRFC]

I'm calling @#/? on this.

Who started the rumour?

How would they know?

By Christmas this will have passed and will have been completely forgotten about.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Good stuff Darth. Care yourself going forward. The Venkys have made us all ill but no point getting really poorly over them.

[Iceman]

I'm calling @#/? on this.

Who started the rumour?

How would they know?

By Christmas this will have passed and will have been completely forgotten about.

Well, as it was indicated Mark, this is just a rumour for now.

And even if its just a rumour, the fans should actually find a way to get HMRC to investigate. If that now means administration, so be it.

Btw, are Seneca not known to assist companies going into administration?

[philipl]

I'm calling @#/? on this.

Who started the rumour?

How would they know?

By Christmas this will have passed and will have been completely forgotten about.

Nobody has any evidence beyond a well respected poster reporting it as reliable hearsay and everybody and his dog knowing that the HMRC has been itching to find a soft football target where big names and significant amounts of money are involved.

The HMRC don't launch investigations without good reason- also known as a reliable tip-off.

Now how many thousand Rovers fans would give them the tip-off given half a chance? And perhaps the provider of the tip-off has found a secure anonymous way also of getting the HMRC response into the public domain?

This is in the category of it would be really tasty if true so the chances are it is wishful thinking.

But then again, put yourself in the shoes of an HMRC investigator and VLL are the dream football target to investigate. No fans, no MPs, no local councillors, no Ministers are going to get upset if you clean them out and the people they have transacted with (especially as Huber and Anderson have had businesses bankrupted in the recent past but are running around with phoenixes)... Hitting VLL makes far more sense than hitting BRFC.

[Darth Paul]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/football/350828/agents-shadowy-world-is-laid-bare-by-court/

Not quite a smoking gun but it doesn't take much imagination to see how unscrupulous owners and/or agents could make a couple of quid off the books here. Makes the bizarre transfer policy a lot more understandable, perhaps some players are more willing to take part than others?

[Reedy You're A Star]

Isn't Dave Sheron Owen Coyle's agent? Not suggesting anything untoward involving Coyle, but it's a hell of a coincidence that all the same people keep being mentioned together.

Could it be yet another coincidence that this rumour and last weeks rumours of them looking into whether Ewood and Brockhall can be sold emerge at the same time? If either or both are true, let's hope those covenants are rock solid and HMRC force them to sod off and take their debt with them. I'm sure their shareholders will love the BOI taking a £100m chunk out of Venkys. I wouldn't even ask for anything else for Christmas, except maybe a half season ticket.

[ABBEY]

I refuse to feel any emotion until I see it in black n white. As someone alluded to earlier , how would anyone know and more to the point let's hope "IF"'it is true then it becoming public knowledge that it does not affect the end result .

I just hope IF it's true the layers peel offl like an onion and anderscum, the lunes , shagnew , chestnut and Ke@@ all end up eating porridge alongside any others like Coar , PL & the FA .

Let's take what's thrown at us as a club and rise like the proverbial Phoenix from the ashes , whether it's a new rovers in non league or L2 .

#venkysout ... Time to feed the hangover

[adsfortheblues]

I am meeting up with the person who I have gathered this information from, today. I will post later this afternoon around 4ish and let you all know what info I gather and if there is anything I can publish, I will.

[47er]

As it's on here it is highly unlikely

Yeah---like Bellamy signing for us.

[ABBEY]

I am meeting up with the person who I have gathered this information from, today. I will post later this afternoon around 4ish and let you all know what info I gather and if there is anything I can publish, I will.

If it effects the case don't .