[Archived] An Entirely Different Perspective

[JohnD]

Stuart getting them on side is most important but how? Ridicule isn't the way but that is the real battle.

[Stuart]

We keep being told 'don't bother', 'just get on with it without them', 'leave the dinosaurs to it'.

But I'm not sure we can.

There are a minority of real protesters and a minority of real anti-protesters. But sandwiched in between are a lot of busy people so find it easier to do nothing. Maybe it's only a game. These people are more likely to be persuaded by the hardcore types like Birdy and Parson, than overt protesters like Glen or Abs.

We need as many voices of reason speaking out against Venkys as possible. WAR were supposed to be that group but they have stalled. I do wonder what WAR patron Simon Garner thinks of what has gone on (or not) so far. People will pay attention to him. He needs to speak out.

[JohnD]

There really was fantastic momentum but WAR snuffed it out

[Leonard Venkhater]

Stuart getting them on side is most important but how? Ridicule isn't the way but that is the real battle.

Ridicule is not an intervention to get people on side, but a way of venting frustration. I get the frustration...believe me, I do...but it will only ever be counter productive

[47er]

I'm not even sure what he's trying to say. The poster or his mate.

Thanks for that! I thought it was just me!

[gumboots]

No it was me too but I'm trying not to post so I didn't comment.

[JohnD]

The original post really wasn't so obtuse, quite simple actually.

For 6 years posters on here (and not other forums as far as I can see) have been shouting the odds about the corrupt owners. Furthermore they have attempted to ridicule anyone with a different opinion. Wait while the dossier is published, newspapers won't publish because of injunctions ...... it's all @#/?, there's nothing illegal and there are no injunctions, nothing to see here.

If posters on here really believe Venkys must go (surely they must!) it is their responsibility to educate other fans and get them on board and protesting. Some might say that the fact that has never happened makes those "itk" more culpable for our predicament than the so called "Rovers Fans" who continue to support the team in blissful ignorance.

If the posters on this mb, who have known each other for years, can't stop the infighting and pull together then there is just no hope. Perhaps moaning and groaning is all this place is about?

Jesus we can't even post h a p p y c l a p p e r s without it being censored wtf?

[Rover_Shaun]

If fans haven't got the intelligence NOW to realise their club is fkd and not likely to last to see it's 150th anniversary in the hands of Venkys then they are beyond hope.

[LewisF]

Edit: nevermind

[ABBEY]

The original post really wasn't so obtuse, quite simple actually.

For 6 years posters on here (and not other forums as far as I can see) have been shouting the odds about the corrupt owners. Furthermore they have attempted to ridicule anyone with a different opinion. Wait while the dossier is published, newspapers won't publish because of injunctions ...... it's all @#/?, there's nothing illegal and there are no injunctions, nothing to see here.

If posters on here really believe Venkys must go (surely they must!) it is their responsibility to educate other fans and get them on board and protesting. Some might say that the fact that has never happened makes those "itk" more culpable for our predicament than the so called "Rovers Fans" who continue to support the team in blissful ignorance.

If the posters on this mb, who have known each other for years, can't stop the infighting and pull together then there is just no hope. Perhaps moaning and groaning is all this place is about?

Jesus we can't even post h a p p y c l a p p e r s without it being censored wtf?

Aye 3 party n jerome totally legal

[Hasta]

For 6 years posters on here (and not other forums as far as I can see) have been shouting the odds about the corrupt owners. Furthermore they have attempted to ridicule anyone with a different opinion. Wait while the dossier is published, newspapers won't publish because of injunctions ...... it's all @#/?, there's nothing illegal and there are no injunctions, nothing to see here.

If posters on here really believe Venkys must go (surely they must!) it is their responsibility to educate other fans and get them on board and protesting. Some might say that the fact that has never happened makes those "itk" more culpable for our predicament than the so called "Rovers Fans" who continue to support the team in blissful ignorance.

If the posters on this mb, who have known each other for years, can't stop the infighting and pull together then there is just no hope. Perhaps moaning and groaning is all this place is about?

Jesus we can't even post h a p p y c l a p p e r s without it being censored wtf?

So based on the documents you have seen, and the comments made by Ferguson, do you believe Kentaro were controlling transfers rather than the manager/board?

I don't see how anyone can answer no to that question if they are in possession of all information,

If you think that is 'nothing to see here' then fair enough but it's a huge breach of FA rules and shows the club has been run for other people's financial gain regardless of performance on the pitch. Just because they have (so far) been clever enough to cover their backs doesn't mean it has all been above board.

However you are correct that educating people about this is key. Even you, who are in possession of the facts, seem in denial about my above points. I've said all along that we need local media on board to question what's in the documents but for what ever reason, Radio Lancs, The Lancashire Telegraph and every other printed media have not even mentioned them.

In a time when football corruption is at the forefront, why does no media even mention that the leaked documents exist?

[JohnD]

The full quote was "there's nothing illegal and there are no injunctions, nothing to see here".

What I believe is irrelevant until there is proof or an investigation.

Like most people on here I find it incredibly frustrating that the real "enemy" is agreed upon but we still continue to snipe and bitch between ourselves.

[Hasta]

The full quote was "there's nothing illegal and there are no injunctions, nothing to see here".

.

There's nothing we can prove is illegal but evidence points to it being against FA rules, there may or may not be any injunctions although nobody will print anything, and there is plenty to see in the documents.

Like most people on here I find it incredibly frustrating that the real "enemy" is agreed upon but we still continue to snipe and bitch between ourselves.

That's because after 6 years nobody seems to know what we can actually do about this - united or not. If someone tries to come up with some action (boycott or 18/75), other naturally won't agree.

[tomphil]

Nearly everything in those documents points to a 3rd party running the club for their own means which is a direct breaking of rules. However because they fired a few solicitors letters to each other (window dressing?) and signed a few documents they have been able to pass it off as advisory although it's blatantly obvious it's more than that.

A proper investigation at the time by the FA probably would have exposed the goings on particularly if they'd followed the money trail but they chose to say they couldn't do it. Once the door had closed no doubt there was a lot of phone calls telling people to get their house in order. That 3rd party will then have gone into full cover up mode and just look at the way things have been done since, directors moved on, managers moved on and a revolving door of players and coaches.

Plan B kicks in with keep the staff and the money moving in a million different directions that makes it almost impossible for anyone but the likes of the FBI to trace. Unlikely that they are going to bother and we might have a period of stillness again now the spotlight is on dodgy goings on but don't tell me there is nothing to see here.

There is plenty but if people choose to ignore it it's up to them but don't come on here telling the rest of us it's bull.

[JohnD]

I don't think I've said it's bull?

[Hasta]

I don't think I've said it's bull?

The full quote was "there's nothing illegal and there are no injunctions, nothing to see here".

What I believe is irrelevant until there is proof or an investigation.

.

I still don't get your point.

Either the documents point to third party ownership and the club being run for other people financial gains or it doesn't.

If it does then your mate (and everyone else) should be horrified and supporting those trying to make a difference.

If you don't believe it does then you think it's bull.

You can't take the viewpoint "well it looks dodgy but I'm doing nothing until proper authorities confirm its dodgy" because that's obviously not going to happen at the moment.

[47er]

As discussed many times,actual illegality isn't necessary to bring the authorities down on Venkys like a ton of bricks. 3rd party ownership is against FA rules if proved.There isn"t the will though is there?

(Not saying there hasn't been illegality of course which a proper enquiry would or would not reveal.)

[Blue blood]

I still don't get your point.

Either the documents point to third party ownership and the club being run for other people financial gains or it doesn't.

If it does then your mate (and everything else) should be horrified and supporting those trying to make a difference.

If you don't believe it does then you think it's bull.

You can't take the viewpoint "well it looks dodgy but I'm doing nothing until proper authorities confirm its dodgy" because that's obviously not going to happen at the moment.

It's a bit like seeing a mugging taking place and saying I think I see a man stealing a woman's purse but till a policeman arrests him I'll assume there's no problem...

[JohnD]

I still don't get your point.

Either the documents point to third party ownership and the club being run for other people financial gains or it doesn't.

If it does then your mate (and everything else) should be horrified and supporting those trying to make a difference.

If you don't believe it does then you think it's bull.

You can't take the viewpoint "well it looks dodgy but I'm doing nothing until proper authorities confirm its dodgy" because that's obviously not going to happen at the moment.

Sorry but I don't see any logic in your replies, none whatsoever, neither do I follow your assumptions.

As far as I recall I have never said the documents are bull, nor have I said I don't believe them. I've never said I think they're dodgy but I'm doing nothing about them until proper ..... etc

Don't mind me though, you just make it up as you think best.

[tomphil]

Yep it's all make believe a bit like you John Dingle.

[JohnD]

That comment is pathetic and an exact indication of my point.

[tomphil]

That comment is pathetic and an exact indication of my point.

And that over reaction is exactly why your here looking for a bit more divide and conquer. Put me on ignore before I really let rip I'm up to the gills with WUMs like you who come on disagreeing with the general consensus yet completely fail to put their own counter point across...because you haven't got one I don't think.

[philipl]

When the "dossier" was published or linked to on here a few weeks ago I gave it to a work colleague. He and his family are very longstanding Rovers fans, albeit he has moved away and is now busy taking his son to play sport on Saturdays. I also suggested he looked at this forum.

He thought the dossier was certainly an interesting read and nothing surprises him when it comes to Venkys but he didn't see anything illegal. He knows that they aren't the best owners in the world, wishes they would go etc, etc.

As regards this forum and its passionate posters he simply asked me what would have happened if I had employed him six years ago and given him the task of bringing the appalling management of BRFC to the notice of all Rovers fans.........

My point, if I have one, is that he makes a very, very good point.

As do many supporters on here, irrespective of their views.

So you are saying you and your pal are both bone idle, uninformed and have achieved nothing yourselves?

Oh and you have no concept of the words "voluntary" or "concerned citizens".

[Hasta]

Wait while the dossier is published, newspapers won't publish because of injunctions ...... it's all @#/?, there's nothing illegal and there are no injunctions, nothing to see here

As far as I recall I have never said the documents are bull, nor have I said I don't believe them.

.

Do you forget what you actually post?

[JohnD]

And that over reaction is exactly why your here looking for a bit more divide and conquer. Put me on ignore before I really let rip I'm up to the gills with WUMs like you who come on disagreeing with the general consensus yet completely fail to put their own counter point across...because you haven't got one I don't think.

My point is clear tough if you don't like it but, again, you make it for me.

Do you forget what you actually post?

Difficult discussing things with people who see what they want rather than what's written.

So you are saying you and your pal are both bone idle, uninformed and have achieved nothing yourselves?

Oh and you have no concept of the words "voluntary" or "concerned citizens".

I thought you had more intelligence