[Archived] Attendances Once We Get The Club In Better Hands?

[No Nay Never]

All this talk of boycotters and non boycotters has got me thinking, what sort of attendances could we expect at Ewood if they were to say, sell up this summer?

Of course this all depends on how many boycotters (I know I will) return.

So what do people think would be an average crowd for an average game in:

A - Championship

B - League One

[Madon]

Championship average: 14,000

League one average: 9,000

[J*B]

Championship (initially): 15k home fans

League One (initially): 12,500 home fans.

Stats prove once a customer is gone, in most cases they're gone forever. Unfortunately a lot of the fan base will never come back, however there would be an initial burst.

[tomphil]

It's always easier and should be the first option to try and keep what you've got. We managed that for 4 seasons but have taken a hit this season for understandable reasons. A big turn around in the way things are done and a decent effort pushing for the top 6 might see those just gone come back.

Drop in league one and it becomes very hard to entice people back even if you are doing ok unless there is a change in ownership and something to buy into, see Bolton.

Venkys go; Stable upper half champ club ave back to 12/13k. pushing in the top 6 14/17k

League 1 upper half stable ave 8/10k pushing top 2 10/12k

No end to how low it'll go if they stay and continue this path. Maybe not a massive upturn straightaway if they left but it would be a starting point and the club wouuld have to be built back up again and trust regained.

Sadly though apart from odd games and barring genuine very wealthy owners with genuine ambitions thousands of regulars are lost for good.

Well done you set of con artists. venkys OUT !

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

They won't be good, but that's part of a long-term, wider problem in my opinion. Attendances were dropping throughout the 00s after the peak of our first season back under Souness. We went on to an extremely successful period for the club, a trophy, numerous cup semi finals, top half finishes and European campaigns. And all the while our average attendances slowly dropped from 26,000 to 21,000 before severe price cuts stopped the slide. Who knows how far they would have fallen had we kept STs at around £450 like they were, or worse continued to follow the inflation every other team was following.

So why was that? This is years before Venkys, when pretty much everything was going right for the club. Well in my opinion it's the changing demographic of the town. The further away a fan lives from the ground, the less likely they are to go. There's a reason Mill Hill and Darwen have always been massive Rovers strongholds and say Langho hasn't.

You need at least a half decent percentage of fans to live within say a half an hour walk of the ground. They're the ones who have no parking hassle, no traffic hassle, the tradition of a pub or 2 on the way, and who are immersed in the club culture even during weekdays. Blackburn is swiftly becoming an Asian town and long-term the fanbase size will continue to decrease whilst they don't want to go en masse. Venkys have still done untold damage though, if you've got something that's slowly weakening anyway, taking a blummin baseball bat to it is gonna cause serious damage.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

As soon as they feck off, and they haven't sold the club to the dark lords auntie, shoots of a proper club will have me & my son back, and I would hope a couple of thousand others?

Any more and there would need to be the chances of some success. The club will continue to struggle without some investment and I'm afraid the rest will take some persuading to return.

We are entering a substantial period of rebuilding, and that's only if they leave soon. The chuckle brothers continued mismanagement will only end in greater turmoil, as if their gross incompetence hasn't been enough?

[USABlue]

Sadly I think many of those staying away cos of boycott won't come back when they leave

[JHRover]

People just want to be treated with respect. They want to be made to feel wanted and be made to feel as though they are part of something. Sadly the club has lost that. John Williams had it down to a fine art, not because he offered cheap tickets, but because any fan unhappy with anything could get in touch with him and he would nearly always give that person a response and an explanation.

Huddersfield are another club that have this going for them. A local chairman who understands the club and town. No illusions of grandeur. No nonsense. Just in touch with their support base, know what the people want and have given them hope and something to buy into with a solid managerial appointment and some exciting signings. Hey presto they're getting 20,000 crowds in the Championship.

Now I accept that we're unlikely to get that sort of number unless we're in the top 2 of the Championship. That isn't because we're a smaller club or have less potential, but just a reflection of the differences in standards and expectations. For Huddersfield to be near the top of the Championship is a dream scenario for their fans, most of whom won't be able to remember times as good as they're having at the moment, whereas for Rovers, after the last 25 years, top end of the Championship isn't the pinnacle, and as such the town wouldn't see such excitement.

I believe that a club of our size should aspire to gates of at least 15,000 per week in this league. I think that is an achievable and competitive number, and were we to get people running the club who understood the club and football then this figure would be achievable. Lets remember that we've had average gates of 14,000+ for the last 3 years at Ewood DESPITE Venkys and on the whole mediocre displays and mid-table at best performances. So I don't think that another 1,000 or so on top of that would be expecting too much.

Start showing some ambition to get promoted from this league under new ownership and if we're knocking on the door of the top 6 then I would expect 16,000+ crowds. Bottom half/fighting relegation then anything between 12,000-14,000 would probably be the level, which is a reasonable number in this league in comparison to what other clubs get.

In League One without Venkys and with proper owners then I'd like to think we'd get similar to what we're getting at the moment. A minimum of 8,000 a week but hopefully in excess of 10,000 a week if things were done properly.

With Venkys in League One, which is where we are going without a shadow of a doubt, and we can look at 5 or 6 thousand gates.

[Hasta]

Sadly I think many of those staying away cos of boycott won't come back when they leave

... until we start winning again.

[dallydally]

Most of us will be dead by the time the Venkys leave

[rigger]

People just want to be treated with respect. They want to be made to feel wanted and be made to feel as though they are part of something. Sadly the club has lost that. John Williams had it down to a fine art, not because he offered cheap tickets, but because any fan unhappy with anything could get in touch with him and he would nearly always give that person a response and an explanation.

Huddersfield are another club that have this going for them. A local chairman who understands the club and town. No illusions of grandeur. No nonsense. Just in touch with their support base, know what the people want and have given them hope and something to buy into with a solid managerial appointment and some exciting signings. Hey presto they're getting 20,000 crowds in the Championship.

Now I accept that we're unlikely to get that sort of number unless we're in the top 2 of the Championship. That isn't because we're a smaller club or have less potential, but just a reflection of the differences in standards and expectations. For Huddersfield to be near the top of the Championship is a dream scenario for their fans, most of whom won't be able to remember times as good as they're having at the moment, whereas for Rovers, after the last 25 years, top end of the Championship isn't the pinnacle, and as such the town wouldn't see such excitement.

I believe that a club of our size should aspire to gates of at least 15,000 per week in this league. I think that is an achievable and competitive number, and were we to get people running the club who understood the club and football then this figure would be achievable. Lets remember that we've had average gates of 14,000+ for the last 3 years at Ewood DESPITE Venkys and on the whole mediocre displays and mid-table at best performances. So I don't think that another 1,000 or so on top of that would be expecting too much.

Start showing some ambition to get promoted from this league under new ownership and if we're knocking on the door of the top 6 then I would expect 16,000+ crowds. Bottom half/fighting relegation then anything between 12,000-14,000 would probably be the level, which is a reasonable number in this league in comparison to what other clubs get.

In League One without Venkys and with proper owners then I'd like to think we'd get similar to what we're getting at the moment. A minimum of 8,000 a week but hopefully in excess of 10,000 a week if things were done properly.

With Venkys in League One, which is where we are going without a shadow of a doubt, and we can look at 5 or 6 thousand gates.

I remember Huddersfield coming to Ewood with thousands And getting promotion, with players like Frank Worthington and Dick Krizwicki forgive my spelling

[McClarky]

Most of the stay aways aren't boycotting imo but have been driven away by the Vs. They find different things to do and to spend their time and money on and don't come back. i reckon you could add a couple of thousand on tops, maybe more after a good run but no more than that. I can't see myself buying another season ticket, don't think I could be doing with the hassle. Would come down for the odd game, which is more than now, but that's about it.

[gumboots]

I think, unless you support a club with an ST waiting list, or can guarantee that you won't miss a match, sts are not necessarily worth having. But, whilst we probably wouldn't buy ST'S we'd be back if the owners changed. We'd have to give any new owners a chance at least

[Stuart]

We are on a downward curve at the moment. This won't change overnight but with renewed optimism there will be a few return.

The first match post-Venkys (assuming we are still a Championship club) should see attendances swell but continued crap football will make many stay away longer term.

A lot will depend on what level we end up by the time Venkys are done with us, and we have served whatever purpose the club serves for them.

For me the fundamental question remains: why are they here?

[Rover_Shaun]

Excellent topic. Allows posters to stick the knives in with more snidey comments?

[chaddyrovers]

will alot of the 15k fans that have walked away ever come back? who knows? I think 5 or 6 thousands fans would come back but alot of fans have found other things to do now

[Mattyblue]

The Rovers matchgoing support has always been season ticket holder heavy, in the PL days I remember looking at season ticket sales of other clubs and our figures were certainly competitive, our problem was that we always struggled to get walk ons of any great number- though not a surprise, I suppose if the STs are cheap.

So as our season ticket sales drop so do our attendances by a matching figure- ergo ST sales are 1500 down this season- as is our average crowd.

Losing season ticket holders is always more problematic than a floating fan, the floater has always 'picked their games', so you can see those returning in any Venky free future, however ST holders are often there out of habit, 'same seat since t'Riverside was built' and so on, once they are out of the habit it is extremely difficult to get them back, many have simply moved on- anecdotally I bet we all know plenty that this applies to.

The problem with brfcs is that it is not representative of the larger fanbase, but boycotters on here believe that the missing fans have the same motivations they do. BRFCS-ers are fans that spend hours of our time on an internet messageboard dissecting every bit of news and gossip in regards to Blackburn Rovers, organising protests, social media campaigns etc- most fans don't.

When people on here say they are 'boycotting', I don't dispute it for one minute, you are massively invested in the club, however thousands have just walked away without a second glance- 'f*** Kean and Venky's' for some certainly, however 'Ewood is a morgue these days', 'the level of football's s****, not wasting me time' for plenty of others- they are not waiting with bated breath to return, they've gone, for good. This is especially acute for a club like Rovers in which the fanbase is increasingly drifting further away from the boundaries of the town.

As Rovers simply don't have the fanbase to replenish this lost 15000, plus the ever changing demographics of the town, I think it will be fiendishly difficult to ever recover. Just tragic.

[MCMC1875]

Jumping the gun with this topic

[Athlete]

The Rovers matchgoing support has always been season ticket holder heavy, in the PL days I remember looking at season ticket sales of other clubs and our figures were certainly competitive, our problem was that we always struggled to get walk ons of any great number- though not a surprise, I suppose if the STs are cheap.

So as our season ticket sales drop so do our attendances by a matching figure- ergo ST sales are 1500 down this season- as is our average crowd.

Losing season ticket holders is always more problematic than a floating fan, the floater has always 'picked their games', so you can see those returning in any Venky free future, however ST holders are often there out of habit, 'same seat since t'Riverside was built' and so on, once they are out of the habit it is extremely difficult to get them back, many have simply moved on- anecdotally I bet we all know plenty that this applies to.

The problem with brfcs is that it is not representative of the larger fanbase, but boycotters on here believe that the missing fans have the same motivations they do. BRFCS-ers are fans that spend hours of our time on an internet messageboard dissecting every bit of news and gossip in regards to Blackburn Rovers, organising protests, social media campaigns etc- most fans don't.

When people on here say they are 'boycotting', I don't dispute it for one minute, you are massively invested in the club, however thousands have just walked away without a second glance- 'f*** Kean and Venky's' for some certainly, however 'Ewood is a morgue these days', 'the level of football's s****, not wasting me time' for plenty of others- they are not waiting with bated breath to return, they've gone, for good. This is especially acute for a club like Rovers in which the fanbase is increasingly drifting further away from the boundaries of the town.

As Rovers simply don't have the fanbase to replenish this lost 15000, plus the ever changing demographics of the town, I think it will be fiendishly difficult to ever recover. Just tragic.

Another poster mentioned the hard core fan comes from within walking distance of Ewood this is certainly becoming more and more truer as traffic on match day is now virtually non existant

A lot of fans living outside of these areas even in areas of the town were you Need to either use public transport or drive have now got out of the habit of going another factor is the lack of pubs between Ewood and the town Centre only the railway Club is left.. What a sorry state of affairs

[AshleyClifford]

What would attendances be if promoted to the premier league:

With:

Without venkys :

Difficult question as we will have had some success. Attendances will have already risen a little a lot depending on the factors discussed.premier league has a much wider appeal and the quality of the football makes every game a big event. I think either way we would be over 22000. The premier league is now even bigger draw than it was 5 years ago and I feel local demographic is more interestered in premier league football if at all. The games against United , Liverpool City could most likely need additional capacity. All in all I think games would sell out either way. But it's difficult to say whether the average would be higher with or with out venkys after a promotion. Bizarrely I think attendances would go up after a relation to league 1 then a promotion back to championship. Success is a funny thing.

I'll predict

With: 23400

Without 24000

[gumboots]

Another poster mentioned the hard core fan comes from within walking distance of Ewood this is certainly becoming more and more truer as traffic on match day is now virtually non existant

A lot of fans living outside of these areas even in areas of the town were you Need to either use public transport or drive have now got out of the habit of going another factor is the lack of pubs between Ewood and the town Centre only the railway Club is left.. What a sorry state of affairs

car parking is an issue too. We used to park by the travellers site there. That has now gone. Many people used to park at the aqueduct. That's gone. The club charge the earth to park on the big car park. Much of the street parking is now residents only which is fair enough. We found somewhere further away to park and it was fine for us now, but as we get older it will harder to walk any distance. It's not a reason not to attend but it is an added factor if you're reluctant to go in the first place or if the weather is horrid.

[Paul]

I've been considering using the No. 24 Chorley Blackburn bus which now goes via Ewood. Lots of places to park and catch enroute.

At out age we're not far off bus passes!!!! 😀

[JHRover]

At the end of the day attendances will continue to drop under Venkys, and I personally don't think there's a limit to how low we could fall both in terms of league position and attendances. That won't change as there has been too much water pass under the bridge with this lot over the last 6 years. A lot of people, my dad being one of them, will not even contemplate buying tickets for Rovers until they have cleared off and fit and proper owners have taken over. He had the foresight and threw in the towel as soon as they sacked Allardyce as he could see through them from the off so he's now into Year 7 of his Ewood exile.

A short term improvement, as we saw under Gary Bowyer for 18-24 months, may see an improvement in the atmosphere around the place and a slight increase in attendances, but deep down those attending would know that it was a temporary reprieve and that these fools would find a way to undo the good work and set us back on a downwards trajectory once again.

I don't accept that Blackburn as a town or Blackburn Rovers suffers from some sort of unique set of 21st century problems that prevent our fanbase growing again in future or means we are destined for falling gates and terminal decline. Of course Blackburn is from a relatively poor area and incomes are lower in this part of the Country than many others, and that should be reflected in the ticket prices and cost of following the team. Entering into kit deals with Umbro to charge £100 for a duffel coat an example that is absolutely ridiculous behaviour.

The town has a lot of immigrants. The job therefore is to get those people interested in supporting Rovers. It might not be quick, it might not be easy, but shrugging shoulders and saying there's nothing we can do is simply not an option.

When these people finally leave and hopefully they are replaced by someone fit and proper who wants the club to improve and grow then efforts must be concentrated on re-engaging the town, surrounding areas and lost supporters. This might mean several years of offering knock down ticket prices, heavily incentivised to lure people back, pioneering initiatives to make the whole experience of going to Ewood Park on a Saturday an experience that people enjoy and want to be part of.

If MK Dons can build up an 8,000+ fanbase out of nothing, in a manufactured town in a manufactured stadium only offering League One football despite being hated by most of the country and if Brighton can go from gates of 8,000 on an athletics ground to 25,000 at the Amex virtually overnight offering Championship football then Rovers can entice people to come and watch the club. It might take time, it might take a hit financially, but I'm absolutely sure there is a way to do it. That's why other clubs employ specialists in these areas to improve the matchday experience and build up their fanbases. The people are there, as evidenced by 14,000 gates for the last 3 years despite being treated like dirt and 20,000+ gates in the Premier League. The job, and its a tough job but not impossible, is to tap into as many of those and other people in the town, to follow the club.

Our decline isn't natural, it isn't inevitable and it isn't irreversible. The people running the club no doubt want us to believe it is to justify the decline they are delivering and avoid the need to do anything to sort it out. As soon as these crooks are gone, whenever that might be, then the new owner needs to make serious and sustained efforts to bring through a new generation of Rovers fans as we're already 6 years behind rivals.

[gumboots]

A successful team at whatever level would do a lot. I don't mean winning things or promotion necessarily although we'd hope for some of that eventually, but a team that generally won its home games with more than one goal scored would be encouraging

[tomphil]

Yes it's been a 99% manufactured decline whether purposely or not and that's what makes our case slightly different to one or two other clubs in a similar boat. Some have been given a boom and bust scenario i.e Blackpool, Pompey whilst Charlton is similar but they'd become a steady championship club under natural regression really before they were pulled to bits.

Non of these were established Prem clubs like us, run like us and with our infrastructure. The worst case of the lot is probably Coventry but that started a long time ago before the so called fit and proper. What's been allowed to happen to them is beyond criminal but for my money that's exactly the reverse trajectory we are on as well.