[Archived] Coyle Out

[RevidgeBlue]

Paul Lambert at Norwich. I'm not sure Colchester counts.

Glad you said that and not me.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I wouldn't say if we finished fourth from bottom it would be a huge endorsement of his credentials Parson.

I'd say if he had us in a solid mid table position all season that would have been a huge achievement given the fact he has had various challenges. Lambert left us without a single striker under contract the at the end of last season and then the owners flogged our central defence over the manager's head.

However despite all that surely we have to set our sights somewhat higher than narrowly escaping relegation by the skin of our teeth each season?

Most Rovers fans with long memories would tell you this squad is probably the weakest we've ever had. I can remember the dark days of struggle in the old 3rd Division in the 1970's but we had several players then that would walk into this team.

How can you expect anything other than a relegation battle with the players we've got at the moment. More than one or two of them would be knocking on the door of our all time worst 11.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Oh what a muddling mess we have become.

[Parsonblue]

Most Rovers fans with long memories would tell you this squad is probably the weakest we've ever had. I can remember the dark days of struggle in the old 3rd Division in the 1970's but we had several players then that would walk into this team.

How can you expect anything other than a relegation battle with the players we've got at the moment. More than one or two of them would be knocking on the door of our all time worst 11.

Couldn't agree more Tyrone. The likes of Tony Field, Terry Garbett, Roger Jones, a young Faz, Mick Heaton, Don Martin etc., would be automatic starters today.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Paul Lambert at Norwich. I'm not sure Colchester counts.

His first season in management at Livingstone and Villa are the only places Lambert has bombed. Took Wycombe to a league cup semi and the play-offs, 44% win ratio with Colchester, better than Bowyer last season despite losing a £9m striker in January, and made a decent start at Wolves.

Hughes has to be a contender in club management. Poor at City and Fulham, dreadful at QPR, and spent a fortune by now at Stoke compared to his Rovers days with a poorer league positions return.

[Dunnfc]

His first season in management at Livingstone and Villa are the only places Lambert has bombed. Took Wycombe to a league cup semi and the play-offs, 44% win ratio with Colchester, better than Bowyer last season despite losing a £9m striker in January, and made a decent start at Wolves.

Hughes has to be a contender in club management. Poor at City and Fulham, dreadful at QPR, and spent a fortune by now at Stoke compared to his Rovers days with a poorer league positions return.

Hughes poor at Fulham? Didn't he finish 9th and qualify for Europe?

[RevidgeBlue]

Most Rovers fans with long memories would tell you this squad is probably the weakest we've ever had. I can remember the dark days of struggle in the old 3rd Division in the 1970's but we had several players then that would walk into this team.

How can you expect anything other than a relegation battle with the players we've got at the moment. More than one or two of them would be knocking on the door of our all time worst 11.

I of course remember those days and whilst we had 2 exceptional players in Jones and Field and a very good one indeed in Fazakerley you're perhaps over egging the overall quality slightly. What about Endean, O Mara, Kit Napier, Bradford, Wilkinson, Farrell etc.

As for now: Steele Marshall Mulgrew Lenihan Williams Akpan Guthrie Evans Emnes Graham Gallagher.

There's no real reason why a good manager couldn't get a mid table finish out of that lot imo

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Couldn't agree more Tyrone. The likes of Tony Field, Terry Garbett, Roger Jones, a young Faz, Mick Heaton, Don Martin etc., would be automatic starters today.

Andy Burgin was a classy left back, Graham Oates was an effective central midfield player. Little Pricey would give you a lot more than some of our recent right wingers as would David Bradford in central midfield. Shows how far we've fallen.

[jim mk2]

Glad you said that and not me.

Apart from Norwich, Lambert's done nothing really to justify his exalted reputation. Villa fans despise him. His Rovers team was awful to watch too - though it was hard to beat.

[rigger]

Andy Burgin was a classy left back, Graham Oates was an effective central midfield player. Little Pricey would give you a lot more than some of our recent right wingers as would David Bradford in central midfield. Shows how far we've fallen.

Ben Arentoft

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Hughes poor at Fulham? Didn't he finish 9th and qualify for Europe?

Yeah you're right actually, weird, I vaguely remember him being very average there. Getting old! Qualified through the ridiculous fair play league but did finish 8th apparently.

[jim mk2]

Andy Burgin was a classy left back, Graham Oates was an effective central midfield player. Little Pricey would give you a lot more than some of our recent right wingers as would David Bradford in central midfield. Shows how far we've fallen.

I thought Oates was awful - had concrete in his boots instead of feet. David Bradford never recovered after Furphy said he'd be a £1 miillion player.

[Mike E]

Apart from Norwich, Lambert's done nothing really to justify his exalted reputation. Villa fans despise him. His Rovers team was awful to watch too - though it was hard to beat.

I wouldn't say it was awful to watch Jim, it was more exciting than most games under Bowyer imo, and certainly better than under any other Venkys-era manager.

Mind you, that's the faintest of faint praise, eh?

[arbitro]

Andy Burgin was a classy left back, Graham Oates was an effective central midfield player. Little Pricey would give you a lot more than some of our recent right wingers as would David Bradford in central midfield. Shows how far we've fallen.

The players you have mentioned in this post (and your previous post) confirmed to me that with sound management and moderate financial backing some success can be achieved. Furphy, Lee, Smith and Kendall all proved that.

[Mattyblue]

Apart from Norwich, Lambert's done nothing really to justify his exalted reputation. Villa fans despise him. His Rovers team was awful to watch too - though it was hard to beat.

Awful to watch but hard to beat? Sounds like the grudging praise King Sam used to get from his detractors, didn't expect it from you Jim.

Lambert had us looking like a proper outfit around February time, the form dipped when it became clear he wouldn't be sticking around.

[jim mk2]

Lambert promised to get "fans on the edge of their seats" but I nearly fell off going to sleep. His stuff was worse than anything under Sam - and he didn't do it in the top league.

[RevidgeBlue]

Slightly harsh to condemn Lambert as a one hit wonder at this stage but I would say the jury is still most definitely out.

"Better than Bowyer" just about sums up his time here and even that was a close run thing. He was here for 30 games and his middle 23 produced just 21 points before he announced he was leaving and the team unexpectedly pulled out a couple of wins the last two games.

Good luck to him at Wolves but if he doesn't shine there either it could be his last big (ish) job.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Slightly harsh to condemn Lambert as a one hit wonder at this stage but I would say the jury is still most definitely out.

"Better than Bowyer" just about sums up his time here and even that was a close run thing. He was here for 30 games and his middle 23 produced just 21 points before he announced he was leaving and the team unexpectedly pulled out a couple of wins the last two games.

Good luck to him at Wolves but if he doesn't shine there either it could be his last big (ish) job.

Doesn't that imply Bowyer was complete rubbish then if you can be better than him whilst still apparently being poor? I was no big fan of Bowyer but below average is the harshest I'd describe him, which would make Lambert average at worst. I don't see the validity in plucking out a middle 23 games, surely you could do that with any manager or player, even Shearer who went 5-10 games without scoring every once in a blue moon. As Matty said, his time here was rudely interrupted by Venkys sticking a big Rhodes-shaped knife in his back after the club made £9m at Lambert's expense and he realised he wasn't going to see a penny of it.

Its a moot point these days of course, but it does unnerve me that a not insignificant proportion of fans enthusiastically slate the only proper manager Venkys have ever hired. I get the same feeling of irritated despair I got when you had fan after fan crowing on Talksport about how Big Sam's sacking was a blessing in disguise. Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Coyle, all managers with poor or non-existent track records all hired for no good reason whatsoever, and the Championship relegation zone is exactly where you deserve to be if you do idiotic things like that. Lambert was a brief, solitary interlude from that procession of circus clowns so I honestly don't know what it says about some of our fanbase that they were glad to get shut of him.

[RevidgeBlue]

Doesn't that imply Bowyer was complete rubbish then if you can be better than him whilst still apparently being poor? I was no big fan of Bowyer but below average is the harshest I'd describe him, which would make Lambert average at worst. I don't see the validity in plucking out a middle 23 games, surely you could do that with any manager or player, even Shearer who went 5-10 games without scoring every once in a blue moon. As Matty said, his time here was rudely interrupted by Venkys sticking a big Rhodes-shaped knife in his back after the club made £9m at Lambert's expense and he realised he wasn't going to see a penny of it.

Its a moot point these days of course, but it does unnerve me that a not insignificant proportion of fans enthusiastically slate the only proper manager Venkys have ever hired. I get the same feeling of irritated despair I got when you had fan after fan crowing on Talksport about how Big Sam's sacking was a blessing in disguise. Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer, Coyle, all managers with poor or non-existent track records all hired for no good reason whatsoever, and the Championship relegation zone is exactly where you deserve to be if you do idiotic things like that. Lambert was a brief, solitary interlude from that procession of circus clowns so I honestly don't know what it says about some of our fanbase that they were glad to get shut of him.

As Jim says it's still a moot point whether Lambert is actually any good or not. On the basis of the old adage that you're only as good as your last job he's struggling a bit as he's been extremely disappointing in his last two.

On the Coyle debate a better example of someone else who did well then has bombed everywhere else is Ince. Brilliant at Macclesfield and MK Dons, shocking here, at MK Don's again, Notts County and Blackpool.

[jim mk2]

I was disappointed when Lambert left even though he failed to sparkle here. The point is there's a host of reasons why managers are successful at one club and not at another but I'm stumped how Coyle did so well at Burnley - he was obviously doing something right.

[Lancaster Rover]

The night it clicked for Lambert against Fulham was the best I've seen Rovers play in 6 years, you could see what he was trying to do, just a shame the V's reverted to type and stitched him up with the Rhodes episode.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The players you have mentioned in this post (and your previous post) confirmed to me that with sound management and moderate financial backing some success can be achieved. Furphy, Lee, Smith and Kendall all proved that.

None of those players mentioned with the possible exception of Don Martin came for big money either. They were in the main shrewd signings from the lower leagues by managers who knew how to fit the players into an established system of play.

I thought Oates was awful - had concrete in his boots instead of feet. David Bradford never recovered after Furphy said he'd be a £1 miillion player.

Oates was good enough to go with Gordon Lee to Newcastle for a decent fee. If you didn't rate David Bradford what about Stuart Metcalfe then Jim, do you reckon he'd get into our current team ?

[Mercer]

None of those players mentioned with the possible exception of Don Martin came for big money either. They were in the main shrewd signings from the lower leagues by managers who knew how to fit the players into an established system of play.

Oates was good enough to go with Gordon Lee to Newcastle for a decent fee. If you didn't rate David Bradford what about Stuart Metcalfe then Jim, do you reckon he'd get into our current team ?

The centre circle at Ewood is still rutted from where Metcalfe spun in circles !

Seriously, he was decent but, IMV, didn't fulfil his potential owing to the distractions that come footballers' ways. Metcalfe and the unsung Parkes were formidable in our engine room. Oates was another unsung hero who was a bargain buy from Bradford and provided a physical presence and athleticism.

Any of those three would walk into our midfield today.

As for Burgin, a super signing from Halifax - really turned out to be a classy full back.

[onlyonejackwalker]

I would't call Lambert's time at Villa a failure. Look what happened the minute he left, plus they chucked 50 odd million at it that year. I think he did exactly what was demanded by the owner, reduce outgoings (Bent and others were ostracised), work to a tight budget, keep the club in the PL / solvent, develope youth if possible. No mean feat for any club, even one as big as Villa. As was proven hence playing us now.

[jim mk2]

None of those players mentioned with the possible exception of Don Martin came for big money either. They were in the main shrewd signings from the lower leagues by managers who knew how to fit the players into an established system of play.

Oates was good enough to go with Gordon Lee to Newcastle for a decent fee. If you didn't rate David Bradford what about Stuart Metcalfe then Jim, do you reckon he'd get into our current team ?

Gordon Lee obviously liked Oates. I didn't say I didn't rate Bradford - but he never realised his potential. Metcalfe was a good player.