[Archived] Coyle Out

[Glosrover]

They can borrow against these fixed assets though .....

not sure they'll be able to in this country, as I remember it, Barclays saw through the Venky scam and called in their loan when we were relegated from the Prem, that was secured against the ground and fixed assets,.

A replacement lending facility was then secured from the Bank of India set against Fat Barry's land assets. It looks like the financial mechanics are kindov - debt secured against BoI loan, running costs and expenses against EFL revenue and gate receipts, player sales revenues to 'the consortium's' trouser pockets.

[tomphil]

I think all that happens at Rovers in international brakes is they all clock off for a full week if they want. Think that's been happening a good while.

[PeteJD13]

I think Nixon's quote needs to be pushed out there and used in our battle against the Venksters. Not sure how he knows this or if it is just a load hot air, but it's a very worrying allegation. If there is even a hint of truth to it, then it's as good as criminal. Running a club into the ground to spite fans? Jeez. Would need a proper journalist or someone with influence to do a bit more digging.

what was nixons quote ?

[Waggy76]

extended contract?

I muted this idea sometime last week, wouldn't surprise me one bit !

[4000Holes]

Coyle as an awful manager / coach. Look at his record. His team selection, his choice of substitutes, his record of conceding goals in the last 20 to 30 mins, points to a team that does not have adequate fitness. When he brings a sub on his choice is sometimes bizarre which unsurprisingly does not improve performance. In short he is not fit for purpose.

However having said all that, I don't see any point in getting rid of him. Why? What decent manager could this club attract when there is little or zero local management, decisions being made in India by people who know nothing about football who are being advised by dodgy agents, whilst starving the club of investment and visibly asset stripping.

If Coyle went, he would or could only be replaced by Coyle Mark 2.

In my view, no point in doing anything until Venkys the asset strippers dissapear into the wide Blue yonder.

On another subject, could it be that someone with much more intelligence than me, could put a letter together and send it to the Indian embassy in London pointing out that Venkys behaviour is having a detrimental effect on the integrity of all Indian industry in general in the United Kingdom? Just a thought.

[Claytons Left Boot]

I think Nixon's quote needs to be pushed out there and used in our battle against the Venksters. Not sure how he knows this or if it is just a load hot air, but it's a very worrying allegation. If there is even a hint of truth to it, then it's as good as criminal. Running a club into the ground to spite fans? Jeez. Would need a proper journalist or someone with influence to do a bit more digging.

The fact that Venky's are running us into the ground for nothing more than spite was mentioned on here a couple of months or so ago. I can't remember the exact story but someone knew of a businessman in Pune who was reasonably close to the Raos. The Raos felt that they had been treated unfairly by Rovers fans and had decided on this course of action. Something along those lines anyway.

[Waggy76]

The fact that Venky's are running us into the ground for nothing more than spite was mentioned on here a couple of months or so ago. I can't remember the exact story but someone knew of a businessman in Pune who was reasonably close to the Raos. The Raos felt that they had been treated unfairly by Rovers fans and had decided on this course of action. Something along those lines anyway.

Very possible but strange deals were happening in the first 2 months of their stewardship....

[Tom]

Has he gone yet?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I've got a feeling something is coming...

Yeah, it's Christmas.

How many honestly think our playing staff is good enough to stay up if a miracle occurs and we show Coyle the door and get a real manager ?

I'm not sure we've got the players any more.

[DE.]

The players are (just about) good enough to stay up. Our current management team won't get enough out of them to make it happen, though. Stick with Coyle and we are surely down. Take a chance on somebody else and maybe we scrape another season in the Championship.

Under Venky's we are ultimately only going one way, though. If we don't drop this season, it will be next. If the squad gets any worse quality wise (and under Venky's it will) no manager within our grasp will be able to keep us up.

[tomphil]

Very possible but strange deals were happening in the first 2 months of their stewardship....

Yep if it's spite it started not long after they arrived and has carried on ever since. If there was anybody miffed you'd think they'd just dump the club and get rid of any hassle.

not sure they'll be able to in this country, as I remember it, Barclays saw through the Venky scam and called in their loan when we were relegated from the Prem, that was secured against the ground and fixed assets,.

A replacement lending facility was then secured from the Bank of India set against Fat Barry's land assets. It looks like the financial mechanics are kindov - debt secured against BoI loan, running costs and expenses against EFL revenue and gate receipts, player sales revenues to 'the consortium's' trouser pockets.

That's probably the best description of it yet

[AllRoverAsia]

what was nixons quote ?

Sources close to the scumbags....................

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/2080446/blackburn-venkys-owen-coyle-rovers/

Sams sacking was the clear signal of things to come....

Very possible but strange deals were happening in the first 2 months of their stewardship....

[tomphil]

Nixon one minute doesn't know what's happening with Venkys when he's making excuses up for his latest wee gem being in the dark.

Next minute he knows what is or isn't on tv in their front room, knows they'll only sell to a foreigner and knows they are miffed.

Assumption from the twonk as usual he knows nowt except 3rd hand rumour that usually finds it's way on here first.

[AllRoverAsia]

Double post. Sorry on a mobile.....badly!

[Glosrover]

Yeah, it's Christmas.

How many honestly think our playing staff is good enough to stay up if a miracle occurs and we show Coyle the door and get a real manager ?

I'm not sure we've got the players any more.

see TrentVilla 's comment on the Aston VIlla thread - he thinks we're good enough to stay up.!

[darrenrover]

I'm not convinced the squad is good enough either: littered with never have beens, never will be's and crocks.

That said, it's a poor league and the difference between staying up or not is definitely a fine line and the manager could be the difference.

The players are definitely unfit and that is down to the manager and his coaching staff as are the bizarre substitutions. To quote Coyle: "I took Conway off after 65 minutes because he looked tired and brought Feeney on to freshen things up because we looked exposed down that side".

Feeney is rank awful and all those at Villa Park like myself could see we were exposed down the opposite flank from the first minute but yet no change in personnel or formation.

If Coyle is left in situ, it just further confirms the owners intentions.

Venkys have killed it for us all, I was there in the dismal early seventies and despite what some say, it isn't the same. There's no hope now until they're gone.

The whole club has no DESIRE or AMBITION and I really can't get my head around that more than anything else, it's what football is all about.

[chaddyrovers]

I wonder if the club is up for sale?

Would an overseas buyer be interest?

[darrenrover]

I wonder if the club is up for sale?

Would an overseas buyer be interest?

Chaddy, do you not think that had the club been up for sale the Venkys approach to Seneca would have been different during the summer?

Something along the lines of 'well we're not interested in shared equity but come and talk to us about buying the club lock stock and barrel' as opposed to feck off.

[JHRover]

I wonder if the club is up for sale?

Would an overseas buyer be interest?

Overseas buyers would be interested if we were a Championship club for sale at a sensible price with little or no debt which could be managed. The Championship is the new Premier League when it comes to wealthy overseas buyers wanting a foothold and a part of the action. See Wolves, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday, Cardiff, Watford, Bournemouth, Charlton, Leicester, Southampton, Leeds and Forest for examples.

In League One the chances of that happening reduce probably tenfold. Its one thing selling a club to people with a 'project' of promotion within a few years to access the riches of the Premier League, its another selling a club to people needing two promotions.

If they had any sense and wanted to offload the club they would understand the importance of being in the Championship and would be doing what they could to ensure we stayed there whilst they tried to flog the club in Asia. Instead they seem quite content to continue the cycle of decline into League One and probably beyond whilst maintaining their 'commitment' to the club. Scary really.

[OJRovers]

Something surely has to give this summer with League One a certainty and no more players to cash in on.

I'd take relegation if it guaranteed getting rid of Venkys. There's just nothing to enjoy about Rovers whilst they are still around.

[chaddyrovers]

Chaddy, do you not think that had the club been up for sale the Venkys approach to Seneca would have been different during the summer?

Something along the lines of 'well we're not interested in shared equity but come and talk to us about buying the club lock stock and barrel' as opposed to feck off.

Its looks to me that Venkys wont/dont want to sell to Seneca or anyone local? Could it be that certain people are telling the Venkys that Seneca are part of the protest and behind it.

If they dont want the club then just write it off as a poor investment and sell the club.

How much is Rovers worth now? Between 5 to 10 millions at best

[perthblue02]

Its looks to me that Venkys wont/dont want to sell to Seneca or anyone local? Could it be that certain people are telling the Venkys that Seneca are part of the protest and behind it.

If they dont want the club then just write it off as a poor investment and sell the club.

How much is Rovers worth now? Between 5 to 10 millions at best

Just a feeling but think they would prefer to sell to somebody who does not want to look too closely at the books since they and their project partners appeared on the scene. Wouldn't rule out a staggered sale either so they can save face (although you would think the two each they have got already would be scope to lose one each)

[tomphil]

Any decent business adviser Indian or not would say now is the best time to put it up for sale since they've been here looking at it from their point of view.

Parachutes finished & big assets now cashed, no decent guaranteed income and external borrowings ( which should have been paid down surely ) set to increase again.

Prospect of relegation and even lesser crowds set to reduce value even further. Publicity factor almost zero. Pressure from politicians and calls for investigations set to be ramped up and if it kicks off many skeletons may be unearthed and canaries sing.

Only reason they are holding on to this is it may be hamstrung with huge borrowings in India that would become liable on sale but the sale price won't even touch the sides or the 3rd party consortium hold power still.

Or maybe it's a handy company number crunching tool to flow cash through whilst they play around filling their back pockets with little flutters from the betting markets.

[A cup of beans]

Something surely has to give this summer with League One a certainty and no more players to cash in on.

I'd take relegation if it guaranteed getting rid of Venkys. There's just nothing to enjoy about Rovers whilst they are still around.

That's my feelings. But it's a dicey game.

Nothing to enjoy and no guarantee that they'll sell up. Purgatory Park.

[Glosrover]

Overseas buyers would be interested if we were a Championship club for sale at a sensible price with little or no debt which could be managed. The Championship is the new Premier League when it comes to wealthy overseas buyers wanting a foothold and a part of the action. See Wolves, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday, Cardiff, Watford, Bournemouth, Charlton, Leicester, Southampton, Leeds and Forest for examples.

In League One the chances of that happening reduce probably tenfold. Its one thing selling a club to people with a 'project' of promotion within a few years to access the riches of the Premier League, its another selling a club to people needing two promotions.

If they had any sense and wanted to offload the club they would understand the importance of being in the Championship and would be doing what they could to ensure we stayed there whilst they tried to flog the club in Asia. Instead they seem quite content to continue the cycle of decline into League One and probably beyond whilst maintaining their 'commitment' to the club. Scary really.

It's all kindov interesting, but tragic at the same time. I'm no closer to understanding what drives an investor in anything other than the top leagues. Not that long ago investment was the preserve of the spoilt rich, so the Alan Sugars, the Simon Jordans, Steve Gibsons etc etc maybe even Jack Walker pumped money into their boyhood clubs for little apparent purpose, other than egotism or philanthropy [and to take a dose of dog's abuse]. I'm sure it was one of those that said the best way to make a millionaire is to find a billionaire and make him buy a football club. The first two on the list were cute enough to have an exit strategy, Gibson still makes a go of it [how!!?] and Jack passed away.

Foreign owners I just don't get, it seems almost impossible to run a football club at a profit, or to break even. They dont even bask in the glow of being revered as most think that they're gimps, or crooks. The levels of debt in the Premier league are frightening and really only sustained by Sky and BT being equally stupid and shelling out fortunes while the running costs are driven up and up. No-one would entertain valuing a 'normal' business the way football clubs are valued. The only variability seems to be a lunatic foreign owner, they're like flies in a butchers, they know the big purple light will kill them if they touch it, but they cant resist flying into it anyway. The FA don't take any steps to preclude this, as its 'box-office' - for every 100 loonys there's a luck strike and Leicester maybe the proof of that.

Rovers are now in the worst of the worst of all the positions of the formerly well-established Premier league clubs and hard to see the way back. The shell of the club, having seen the parachute money trousered by agents, and having been stripped bare by 'the consortium' fire sale before and during the way down, is now being operated on a more conventional accounting process where costs are being trimmed to match revenues. While this makes perfect sense in most proper businesses, the competition in Rovers market place are throwing around money just like they always did and whistling a happy tune in their handcart to hell. Unsustainable yes, but highly advantageous until the loans get called in and we wont compete even in the short term.

Rovers, and maybe also Blackpool, Bolton, Coventry, Charlton are unfortunately the vanguard of the 'proper' clubs to have their golden egg taken away and the legacy squandered, logic would say this will happen more often. Of those other 'big club' relegation casualties, the majority so far have has a big [deluded] fan base to fall back on to prop up revenue. So the likes of City, the (Car)Toon, West Ham perhaps and maybe even Norwich can sustain borrowings for longer against their big gate receipts. In this country, not very many town clubs will sustain this and maybe long term there's only 2 rational options - an upper tier of wealthy city clubs and lower leagues of bankrupts on the way down and phoenix clubs on the way up. In lots of ways, the Fair Play rules are structured to achieve exactly this outcome and the maybe that's where the FA, UEFA and FIFA want to practice their extortion.

What might make them act is the increased tendency for fans to protest and place the blame squarely on foreign ownership. Swansea fans did it yesterday, Charlton also, Liverpool fans, Leeds fans, even Manure fans were widely lauded for it a while back and the FA role in approving foreign ownership must surely come under examination soon.

In the meantime we are where we are, the establishment seemingly wont step in to rid us of the Venkys whatever they do, the only plausible threat to their being able to continue to own Rovers seems to be HMRC, [please god] the Bank of India, an Audit of the financial affairs of VLL or a fireproof whistle-blower that send them scuttling for cover.

I really don't know who to blame most for the enduring nightmare, is it just Venkys and the leeches that hang around them, or is it equally the banks that lend to them, the FA who wont take them to task, the Walker Trust who sold us into slavery. Someone tell me there's a way out of this!!