[Archived] Coyle Out

[rigger]

  On 07/02/2017 at 12:41, Bigdoggsteel said:

A new manager wouldn't improve fitness in such a short time frame. That takes months. The biggest factor in us dropping points this season has been individual errors. While I didn't want coyle here and I would have sacked him before Christmas. He isn't wholly responsible. Some of our players need to stand up and be counted also. 

 

I would imagine coyle knows he is a dead man walking regardless of whether we stay up or not. His likeleness of getting a job after here ,depends soely on how we finish this season. If we stay up he can argue the club is a basket case and he did well under difficult circumstances. If we go down,he is the manager who relegated Blackburn rovers to division 3. While not the popular choice,I believe keeping him until the end of the season is our best chance of staying up. That is based on potential candidates out there currently. I haven't heard one realistic manager being named here that I would say is better. Sad state of affairs,but true. 

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I disagree with your view that it takes months to improve fitness. It may take months to reach peak fitness, but not so to improve basic fitness and stamina. The individual errors usually occur when a player tries to improve on the set game plan.

[donnermeat]

  On 07/02/2017 at 14:49, gumboots said:

As has already been suggested Rowett would appear to be a potential improvement and as others have said Johnson as a temporary measure could not do worse. Coyle has lost too many fans to be allowed to continue. 

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I'd take Jackett over Coyle too, whenever he's had his teams playing at Ewood last few years they've always looked pretty solid and hard to break down (granted the Shittu game we practically handed it to them on a plate).

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

  On 07/02/2017 at 14:33, Bigdoggsteel said:

I don't see Rowett as a major improvement on Coyle, no. 

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His win percentage over the course of his career is 43.2%, this was acheived on a very modest budget at both Birmingham and Burton. Coyle's is around 30%. Throw in the connections with SEM, the turning on the crowd at the end of the QPR and the appalling condition of the squad and complete lack of tactics and I can only conclude you are on a windup or thick.

[JHRover]

  On 07/02/2017 at 14:37, Bigdoggsteel said:

So just get anyone in? Then pay them off. Wash, rinse, recycle. 

 

I would prefer to wait until the summer, see who is available and actually make a decent appointment. Regardless of what division we are in. 

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We had that option last summer.

Lambert told them in April he was on his way. It took them until June to announce Coyle after an absolute joke of an appointment process.

Our only active director, who clearly knows nothing about football and should stick to finance, led a selection process that involved people that should have been nowhere near the Ewood Park dugout. Warren Joyce, Neil Redfearn, Russell Slade? Scary. Assisting him with his task was mystery man Pasha, who knows what qualifies him to be judging football managers and it seems he has more experience selling biscuits in South Africa than he has running a professional football club. At least he seemingly delivered Lambert into the club, but then presided over the next fiasco after false promises were made and broken.

Neil Warnock wanted the job yet was treated shoddily and dropped at the 11th hour. Proven experienced managers like Billy Davies and Alex McLeish threw their hats into the ring but seemingly didn't even merit an interview, Nigel Adkins apparently overlooked.

Our only Director then goes on his annual holiday before the job is complete, leaving the appointment in the hands of persons unknown, who swiftly erase his recommendations and recruit someone completely left-field who just so happens to have got homesick in Houston and quit that job a few days before.

In the end I was almost grateful to get Coyle on the basis that 'at least' he had experience in this division and the Premier League and the faint hope he was due a good job after Bolton and Wigan. Only a very distant hope mind, but at least his CV was marginally better than some of the dross they were sifting through.

So I don't think it matters what time of year it is or how long they have to 'make a decent appointment'. They'll mess it up regardless of which decent managers want the job. Still better to twist than stick as anyone who knows anything about football will agree after witnessing events unfold this season.

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 07/02/2017 at 14:55, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

His win percentage over the course of his career is 43.2%, this was acheived on a very modest budget at both Birmingham and Burton. Coyle's is around 30%. Throw in the connections with SEM, the turning on the crowd at the end of the QPR and the appalling condition of the squad and complete lack of tactics and I can only conclude you are on a windup or thick.

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Rowetts is actually 42% v Coyles 39%. So maybe before accusing people of being "thick or on a wind-up" At lease check your facts. Was Rowetts budget as modest as our non-existent one over the past few years. Actually worse than non-existent , we actually sold a lot of our best players. People thinking that Coyle is the problem here, need to realign their focus big time. Sacking him will not improve things at this point. The team is his, let him get on with it. Most importantly ,support the team. 

Actually making Rowett out to be some kind of footballing genius is so ridiculous, I am not even going to discuss it anymore. 

[gazsimm]

so as coyle gone then?

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 07/02/2017 at 14:59, JHRover said:

We had that option last summer.

Lambert told them in April he was on his way. It took them until June to announce Coyle after an absolute joke of an appointment process.

Our only active director, who clearly knows nothing about football and should stick to finance, led a selection process that involved people that should have been nowhere near the Ewood Park dugout. Warren Joyce, Neil Redfearn, Russell Slade? Scary. Assisting him with his task was mystery man Pasha, who knows what qualifies him to be judging football managers and it seems he has more experience selling biscuits in South Africa than he has running a professional football club. At least he seemingly delivered Lambert into the club, but then presided over the next fiasco after false promises were made and broken.

Neil Warnock wanted the job yet was treated shoddily and dropped at the 11th hour. Proven experienced managers like Billy Davies and Alex McLeish threw their hats into the ring but seemingly didn't even merit an interview, Nigel Adkins apparently overlooked.

Our only Director then goes on his annual holiday before the job is complete, leaving the appointment in the hands of persons unknown, who swiftly erase his recommendations and recruit someone completely left-field who just so happens to have got homesick in Houston and quit that job a few days before.

In the end I was almost grateful to get Coyle on the basis that 'at least' he had experience in this division and the Premier League and the faint hope he was due a good job after Bolton and Wigan. Only a very distant hope mind, but at least his CV was marginally better than some of the dross they were sifting through.

So I don't think it matters what time of year it is or how long they have to 'make a decent appointment'. They'll mess it up regardless of which decent managers want the job. Still better to twist than stick as anyone who knows anything about football will agree after witnessing events unfold this season.

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I agree with a lot of this. Apart from the twist part  mostly because there are no good candidates out there. We will end up with someone worse than Coyle. I can almost guarantee that now. 

[chaddyrovers]

  On 07/02/2017 at 14:44, Bigdoggsteel said:

"Most of whats available"

 

Give an example please. 

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Rowett, Jackett, JFH, Ainsworth(my choice if we are appointing a manager not a head coach and ive suggested twice before) Hill. 

Rowett would organised the defence and tactics much better than Coyle. 

 

[perthblue02]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:05, Bigdoggsteel said:

Rowetts is actually 42% v Coyles 39%. So maybe before accusing people of being "thick or on a wind-up" At lease check your facts. Was Rowetts budget as modest as our non-existent one over the past few years. Actually worse than non-existent , we actually sold a lot of our best players. People thinking that Coyle is the problem here, need to realign their focus big time. Sacking him will not improve things at this point. The team is his, let him get on with it. Most importantly ,support the team. 

Actually making Rowett out to be some kind of footballing genius is so ridiculous, I am not even going to discuss it anymore. 

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With no guarantee that Venky's would sod off if they achieve Division 3  staus, it's important the Rovers stay in the Championship. That means tactics that make you hard to beat with a limited squad, unfortunately Coyle would not know a defensive tactic if it was embedded into one of his training doughnuts when he took a bite out of it, as he has shown throughout his career..

With things going on elsewhere within the project it looks to me like Division Three is a realistic (targetted) aim this season, so with those wanting the best for the club being at odds with the projects aims and the chance of a few more % going into the washing machine before next seasons dumb down is complete, for me Keoyle will be allowed to spout his inane ramblings (although got some serious competition now with salesman arriving) and PE teacher tactics for the duration

Needless to say I hope I am wrong 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:19, chaddyrovers said:

Rowett, Jackett, JFH, Ainsworth(my choice if we are appointing a manager not a head coach and ive suggested twice before) Hill. 

Rowett would organised the defence and tactics much better than Coyle. 

 

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That list makes me sad. 

[DE.]

  On 07/02/2017 at 14:47, gumboots said:

I did not have a go at Chaddy. His reputation on this board is as a so called superfan. Ive never used that term myself referring to him. However, Chaddy does think Coyle should go, along with most fans I know whether boycotters or attendee, so I simply do not understand what it is that makes this new person so disposed to keep Coyle against all the evidence that changing managers would probably help

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Honestly, this doesn't require explanation. Nobody other than JBizzle seems offended. As 47er has pointed out, it's a bit odd that new posters often pop up in support of the current regime. If the big dogg is a genuine fan, then great, I'm sure he'll be around in a year still giving his two penneth. Most of these "controversial" new posters disappear after attempting to sow some dissension and are never seen again. Hardly a surprise people are suspicious.  

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:05, Bigdoggsteel said:

Rowetts is actually 42% v Coyles 39%. So maybe before accusing people of being "thick or on a wind-up" At lease check your facts. Was Rowetts budget as modest as our non-existent one over the past few years. Actually worse than non-existent , we actually sold a lot of our best players. People thinking that Coyle is the problem here, need to realign their focus big time. Sacking him will not improve things at this point. The team is his, let him get on with it. Most importantly ,support the team. 

Actually making Rowett out to be some kind of footballing genius is so ridiculous, I am not even going to discuss it anymore. 

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Here are the facts;

	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Win %	Loss %	Avg Points Per Game
Owen Coyle @  Rovers	30	10	6	14	33.33%	46.60%	1.2
Gary Rowett @ Birmingham City	106	42	32	32	39.63%	30.10%	1.49

 

 

At what point did I state that 'Coyle is the problem here'? I was responding to your assertion that you can't see how Rowett was an improvement on Coyle.

[Amo]

  On 07/02/2017 at 14:09, Bigdoggsteel said:

I am here because i am a Blackburn rovers fan. 

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We don't take kindly to your types around here.

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:30, DE. said:

Honestly, this doesn't require explanation. Nobody other than JBizzle seems offended. As 47er has pointed out, it's a bit odd that new posters often pop up in support of the current regime. If the big dogg is a genuine fan, then great, I'm sure he'll be around in a year still giving his two penneth. Most of these "controversial" new posters disappear after attempting to sow some dissension and are never seen again. Hardly a surprise people are suspicious.  

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I am most definitely a real poster. I used to be on the official board mostly. A lot busier here! Which is great to see 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:38, Amarillo said:

We don't take kindly to your types around here.

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Well I don't take too kindly to people who dont take too kindly...

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:30, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Here are the facts;

	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Win %	Loss %	Avg Points Per Game
Owen Coyle @  Rovers	30	10	6	14	33.33%	46.60%	1.2
Gary Rowett @ Birmingham City	106	42	32	32	39.63%	30.10%	1.49

 

 

At what point did I state that 'Coyle is the problem here'? I was responding to your assertion that you can't see how Rowett was an improvement on Coyle.

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You said the below(over the course of their careers). Now you are using stats from a small section of their managerial careers. I'm not a Coyle fan, but stick to your argument man! 

His win percentage over the course of his career is 43.2%, this was acheived on a very modest budget at both Birmingham and Burton. Coyle's is around 30%. Throw in the connections with SEM, the turning on the crowd at the end of the QPR and the appalling condition of the squad and complete lack of tactics and I can only conclude you are on a windup or thick.

[DE.]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:38, Bigdoggsteel said:

I am most definitely a real poster. I used to be on the official board mostly. A lot busier here! Which is great to see 

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Aye, and the reason for that is healthy, sometimes heated debate  you don't seem to mind, which is fine, but it does baffle me when others get their feathers ruffled over things that have nothing to do with them.

Anyhow, when you consider the positive changes that have happened at Hull and Swansea by appointing relatively unknown managers, and also the amount of times Sunderland have gotten out of trouble by jettisoning their manager late in the game, there is a strong argument for twisting in the kind of situation we are in.

Obviously it isn't a long term solution, but as long as Venky's are in charge we will never see any long term plans beyond the systematic downgrading of everything at the club. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:43, DE. said:

Aye, and the reason for that is healthy, sometimes heated debate  you don't seem to mind, which is fine, but it does baffle me when others get their feathers ruffled over things that have nothing to do with them.

Anyhow, when you consider the positive changes that have happened at Hull and Swansea by relatively unknown managers, and also the amount of times Sunderland have gotten out of trouble by jettisoning their manager late in the game, there is a strong argument for twisting in the kind of situation we are in.

Obviously it isn't a long term solution, but as long as Venky's are in charge we will never see any long term plans beyond the systematic downgrading of everything at the club. 

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You could argue Leeds as well. Although it hasn't been smooth sailing there. Monk would have been a great appointment here. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:42, Bigdoggsteel said:

You said the below(over the course of their careers). Now you are using stats from a small section of their managerial careers. I'm not a Coyle fan, but stick to your argument man! 

His win percentage over the course of his career is 43.2%, this was acheived on a very modest budget at both Birmingham and Burton. Coyle's is around 30%. Throw in the connections with SEM, the turning on the crowd at the end of the QPR and the appalling condition of the squad and complete lack of tactics and I can only conclude you are on a windup or thick.

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I hold my hands up, I stated over their careers, apologies. What I should have done is referenced their two latest jobs which I now have done - 33.3% vs 39.6%. Add that to the loss % and average points per game you can surely see my point?

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:46, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

I hold my hands up, I stated over their careers, apologies. What I should have done is referenced their two latest jobs which I now have done - 33.3% vs 39.6%. Add that to the loss % and average points per game you can surely see my point?

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No, not really. Rowetts record isn't that impressive. Coyle had no transfer budget here and had to sell Hanley and Duffy. Far from easy for any manager to manage here over the past few years. I see nothing to suggest Rowett would do any better. 

[JHRover]

More than a quarter of Coyle's career was spent in micky mouse leagues such as Scotland and the MLS. His impressive stats in Scotland at Falkirk and St Johnstone have dragged his win percentage up to a far better level than his achievements would suggest.

Lets bear in mind that Brendan Rodgers is now winning silverware such is the standard on offer in Scotland these days.

If you look at his record in English football then he's managed 299 games and won 109 of them. That's 36% and dropping rapidly.

[Rover-the-Top]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:30, DE. said:

Honestly, this doesn't require explanation. Nobody other than JBizzle seems offended. As 47er has pointed out, it's a bit odd that new posters often pop up in support of the current regime. If the big dogg is a genuine fan, then great, I'm sure he'll be around in a year still giving his two penneth. Most of these "controversial" new posters disappear after attempting to sow some dissension and are never seen again. Hardly a surprise people are suspicious.  

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I've not always agreed with him, but Big Dogg has been making well reasoned points on the official messageboard for years.   I assume he's joined up here because that site has fallen over.   Have you considered that many of those new posters may simply be shocked that they're labelled "controversial" for showing some support for Rovers on what's supposed to be a Rovers messageboard, and decide it's not worth coming back to have their allegiance questioned further?  This site is an echo chamber for paranoia and negativity.  We could sack Coyle now and no one would be particularly upset, but whoever replaced him will still have the same poor players to try and perform miracles with and would probably be as hated on here within a few weeks.  You don't need to be a fan of Coyle to realise that changing manager won't fix things, our problems have been building up for years and run much deeper. 

[chaddyrovers]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:29, Bigdoggsteel said:

That list makes me sad. 

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Dont know why cos all of those I named are miles better than Coyle. 

Simon Grayson should have been appoint last summer

[JBiz]

  On 07/02/2017 at 15:43, DE. said:

it does baffle me when others get their feathers ruffled over things that have nothing to do with them.

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I'm more baffled by the argument that "you disagree with me, therefore you must be a wum, a plant, dingle or Madame Desai herself!"

Its never quite as blunt as this but it's still just as pointless. I'm one of the few (probably) who would like to see new blood here - maybe that explains why the comments "ruffled my feathers" DE.

[JBiz]

  On 07/02/2017 at 16:13, Rover-the-Top said:

I've not always agreed with him, but Big Dogg has been making well reasoned points on the official messageboard for years.   I assume he's joined up here because that site has fallen over.   Have you considered that many of those new posters may simply be shocked that they're labelled "controversial" for showing some support for Rovers on what's supposed to be a Rovers messageboard, and decide it's not worth coming back to have their allegiance questioned further?  This site is an echo chamber for paranoia and negativity.  We could sack Coyle now and no one would be particularly upset, but whoever replaced him will still have the same poor players to try and perform miracles with and would probably be as hated on here within a few weeks.  You don't need to be a fan of Coyle to realise that changing manager won't fix things, our problems have been building up for years and run much deeper. 

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Well said