[Archived] Enders (Knob) V Mighty Rovers

[A cup of beans]

I actually think we need relegation - venkys can't ignore that and just say nothing. Surviving will just preserve the silent status quo

What a sad state of affairs that is, Sam. Hard to disagree.

Nothing is guaranteed with these running us.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Seems us Rovers fans now fall into two camps the spitters and the swallowers.

Personally don't see it as being that simple anymore. There was a point where fans protesting, being antagonistic towards managers, expressing disgruntlement however possible could have improved the situation. That was definitely the case when Big Sam was sacked but half the fanbase celebrated in comically moronic fashion. It was somewhat the case in our first season or 2 in the Championship under Bowyer and the circus that preceded him when parachute payment money could and should have been driving a genuine promotion attempt.

At this late stage? I hate to say it but spit to your hearts content and it won't really do much. Coyle is the most pathetically inept appointment since Kean but I'm just not that annoyed anymore because what will happen if he's sacked? 90% chance we get someone just like him, 10% chance we get someone half decent. If we get lucky and its the half decent option, then Venkys give them no money, ever, and sell their best players as soon as they develop any. So we don't really go anywhere anyway.

I can't see any logical course of action other than to just give up and accept that we are where we are and I'm afraid losing to the likes of Preston is no longer a disgrace, its simply reality and its here to stay.

[perthblue02]

I actually think we need relegation - venkys can't ignore that and just say nothing. Surviving will just preserve the silent status quo

We will just get a 2017 version of the confused and its our baby video, then they will drop back in the shadows and let their associates carry on the sham

[JAL]

Personally don't see it as being that simple anymore. There was a point where fans protesting, being antagonistic towards managers, expressing disgruntlement however possible could have improved the situation. That was definitely the case when Big Sam was sacked but half the fanbase celebrated in comically moronic fashion. It was somewhat the case in our first season or 2 in the Championship under Bowyer and the circus that preceded him when parachute payment money could and should have been driving a genuine promotion attempt.

At this late stage? I hate to say it but spit to your hearts content and it won't really do much. Coyle is the most pathetically inept appointment since Kean but I'm just not that annoyed anymore because what will happen if he's sacked? 90% chance we get someone just like him, 10% chance we get someone half decent. If we get lucky and its the half decent option, then Venkys give them no money, ever, and sell their best players as soon as they develop any. So we don't really go anywhere anyway.

I can't see any logical course of action other than to just give up and accept that we are where we are and I'm afraid losing to the likes of Preston is no longer a disgrace, its simply reality and its here to stay.

Point is all Rovers fans are involved in this act wether they like it or not.

[Amo]

I actually think we need relegation - venkys can't ignore that and just say nothing. Surviving will just preserve the silent status quo

Like Perth said, expect more 'confusion' and the same revolving door of players and managers in League One.

But have no fear, we will be relegated. You can't run a club in the manner we have and expect to stem the tide.

[Baz]

I actually think we need relegation - venkys can't ignore that and just say nothing. Surviving will just preserve the silent status quo

Disagree, I just don't think anything will change until they sell, no matter the results on the pitch.

The only hope for relegation would be that it finally turns their heads to actually selling the club, but its just a hope.

[Paul]

Marshall got kicked with the defenders follow through, so agreed.

Evans looked like a pen, but I think the rules for double jeopardy of a penalty and a red card have been changed, I think it's a red card outside the box, and a penalty and yellow in the box.

In relation to the game we made it far too easy for them, sat back, and conceded 1 decent and 2 very soft goals. You can't expect anything from a game if you don't defend better than that.

Yes that's exactly what happened to Marshall. Regarding red cards I thought it was a yellow unless the attacker was in on goal, which Evans was, in which case it's a straight red. Last man and all that stuff.

[Crimpshrine]

I actually think we need relegation - venkys can't ignore that and just say nothing. Surviving will just preserve the silent status quo

I agree. bring on the ultimate humiliation and start again.

What's the point in finishing 4th bottom and going through all this again next season.

Whatever it takes to get rid and restore some pride. don't care which division that happens to be in.

Venkys out now

[JAL]

Forgot to mention how much it grates when Rovers Twitter account puts a positive spin on everything too. Apparently we were 'edged out' today - fair enough, the ref got a big penalty shout wrong, but we simply aren't fit enough. And we witnessed a 'five goal thriller', so it's OK that we lost as long as we were entertained! Happy days! Or in the land of venkys at least

venkys out

Land of scouse muppets more like.

Boycott the LT

[Oldgregg86]

Firstly the challenge on Marshall was never a foul nor a booking. Evans was a disgrace going down like that when clean through and could easily have got a shot off. Marshall never closed anything or anyone down again. I hope he goes in January because his head and heart already left the building. Lowe. Well what can you say about this lad that already hasn't been said. Can't defend, can't create, can't pass,can't, shoot and his positional sense is as awful as his haurcut. He should never wear the shirt again. We only seem to start playing once we are behind . It's seems like we set out for a draw and try and salvage results. Long hoofballs to nowhere. Surrendering possession. The centre mids offer no support for the attack or defence regardless of who starts.were the hell is Wes brown. Were the hell is Wharton. Why is feeney still being given games.the only Positives I can muster are Mulgrew looks excellent but again went off injured and Williams played really well. @## off Coyle ##@@ off venkys ###@ off fa @@## off agents. A historic club, a beautiful game enjoyed by generations of people raped and pillaged and what's left. @#/? like today week after week. Soulless heartless gutless performances. I'm sick to the back teeth of it

[Parsonblue]

Personally, Marshall wouldn't play again for me. He's not been interested all season and the time to get rid is now. We seem wedded to a 4-4-2 system which we clearly don't have the players to operate. For the second week running our midfield four were completely overwhelmed by the opposition at times. Feeney and Conway look very poor at the moment whilst Lowe and Evans simply can't play together in the centre as both offer little or nothing going forward. Yet, despite our obvious shortcomings, there were times when put Preston under pressure but didn't make it pay. Hopefully, Guthrie will return this week or Byrne will be given a chance to prove his worth. Two huge games coming up and although, as we showed at Newcastle, suprise results are possible, on present form it's difficult to see us getting very much from Brighton or Reading. Fortunately, there are enough poor teams in this League to keep us afloat despite our poor results.

[Stuart]

Personally, Marshall wouldn't play again for me. He's not been interested all season and the time to get rid is now. We seem wedded to a 4-4-2 system which we clearly don't have the players to operate. For the second week running our midfield four were completely overwhelmed by the opposition at times. Feeney and Conway look very poor at the moment whilst Lowe and Evans simply can't play together in the centre as both offer little or nothing going forward. Yet, despite our obvious shortcomings, there were times when put Preston under pressure but didn't make it pay. Hopefully, Guthrie will return this week or Byrne will be given a chance to prove his worth. Two huge games coming up and although, as we showed at Newcastle, suprise results are possible, on present form it's difficult to see us getting very much from Brighton or Reading. Fortunately, there are enough poor teams in this League to keep us afloat despite our poor results.

Agree with most of this (although Marshall has been our best player in some games this season).

The trouble is that the changes you suggest will not happen because we are back to the manager insisting on playing Lowe in centre midfield - a bad thing in itself - but to the exclusion of all else. Sick of watching managers go through the same learning curves. The only thing that has helped us during the last 3 or 4 seasons, although not nice to say it, is Lowe getting injuries that keep him out for a run of games.

[Hasta]

Yes that's exactly what happened to Marshall. Regarding red cards I thought it was a yellow unless the attacker was in on goal, which Evans was, in which case it's a straight red. Last man and all that stuff.

It changed this year so that if the defender makes a genuine attempt to play the ball but takes the man it is a penalty bu only a yellow - even if he is the last man.

See http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10242286/ifab-anounces-law-changes-softening-rules-on-fouls-in-the-penalty-area

However for the Evans incident, if the ref does give the penalty that is a sending off.

[Hasta]

The trouble is that the changes you suggest will not happen because we are back to the manager insisting on playing Lowe in centre midfield - a bad thing in itself - but to the exclusion of all else. Sick of watching managers go through the same learning curves. The only thing that has helped us during the last 3 or 4 seasons, although not nice to say it, is Lowe getting injuries that keep him out for a run of games.

Exactly. Akpan is better than Lowe. That sums it all up.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Done.

That's a great photo Den. What an elegant player Keith Newton was. That's an object lesson in how to strike the ball. Left foot or right foot, it didn't matter to him. That's also a great kit he's wearing. The first shirt I wore with pride. It's hard to put into words how I feel now. It's only the memories that keep me going. So sad and so unnessacary.

[chaddyrovers]

Maybe go 4-3-3 against drop Feeney, Lowe and Conway. Play Guthrie and Byrne instead.

Go Emnes, Graham and Gallagher.

Bring in Greer in for Mulgrew if he out.

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Evans dived so gets no sympathy. Thought the ref had a pretty decent game all in all.

I just about brought myself to watch the game and thought we played well when we got to 2-2. But we always looked like we would concede another.

I look at the calibre of players on the pitch and can't really be that shocked at where we're at. We don't have any top half Championship players so to find ourselves at the bottom is hardly a surprise. I don't think any manager could seriously improve our results.

Really, we're damned either way. Relegation might trigger Venky's to finally sell up but who on earth would want to inherit this mess? Championship survival is instinctively the better option but comes with the guarantee that nothing will change behind the scenes. Either way, we're a shell of what we used to be.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

If you're going to play 4-4-2 you need two wingers who can get outside the opposition back line and put plenty of balls in to the strikers. They also need to track back and hunt the ball when you lose possession. You'll probably get over run in midfield from time to time but if the strikers are effective you should still keep your nose in front.

If the wingers we've got can't do either of those things we need to play another system.

Coyle seems wedded to playing two strikers in spite of our central midfield being as weak as @#/?. You'd think that having two defensive midfielders we wouldn't concede many goals but obviously that's not working either. Teams that get out of our predicament first of all have to stop conceding goals and start pinching the odd goal.

Mostly they go to a 4-5-1 system. With one striker and the midfield flooded. Not pretty to watch but it'll get us more results than our wide open 4-4-2 were normally we'd need to score 3 goals to win a game.

[AllRoverAsia]

Personally, Marshall wouldn't play again for me. He's not been interested all season and the time to get rid is now. We seem wedded to a 4-4-2 system which we clearly don't have the players to operate. For the second week running our midfield four were completely overwhelmed by the opposition at times. Feeney and Conway look very poor at the moment whilst Lowe and Evans simply can't play together in the centre as both offer little or nothing going forward. Yet, despite our obvious shortcomings, there were times when put Preston under pressure but didn't make it pay. Hopefully, Guthrie will return this week or Byrne will be given a chance to prove his worth. Two huge games coming up and although, as we showed at Newcastle, suprise results are possible, on present form it's difficult to see us getting very much from Brighton or Reading. Fortunately, there are enough poor teams in this League to keep us afloat despite our poor results.

You would be at the game and I watched it live on a mobile phone with a decent data connection in a jungle swatting mosszies. I agree with all your player comments - we really did see the same game!

I have always been a very critical watcher of Rovers even as a youngster in the 60s and in 95. Hand on heart this current squad is as bad as its been imo.

I have not much time for Coyle he talks too much and too fast but Fergie would struggle with our bunch.

Lowe must have a clause in his contract forcing his selection if fit. He is pathetic and much better can be seen in park amateur football.

Marshall was awful and Conway and Evans MIA. Feeney is not worthy of comment.

Mulgrew is by far our best 'footballer' but injury prone. Graham does a shift but not convinced by Gallagher but time is on his side. Lenihan Williams and Steele were ok but Lenihan should have scored just before half time.

I have to admit that I enjoyed watching Johnson and Robinson play....which is what most Rovers players did all game.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I think the reason we keep playing 4-4-2 is that Gallagher and Graham are our only remaining players of any value and Coyle is scared of leaving one out over what it might do to the dressing room.

Dyche at Burnley showed how to make 4-4-2 work in this division. You basically play long-ball with both central midfielders playing defensively and you need aggression and aerial competitiveness at all times from your front men so they can operate without much support.

In the modern era for me Rovers (indeed all clubs) should have a vast online database/library containing extensive tv footage of as many clubs from as many seasons as possible. So Coyle can just log on, pull up Burnley 2013/14 and 2015/16 and have 20 games to watch.

Coyles methods haven't worked for about 6 years. If he hasn't got the ability to modernise them, which he hasn't, then why not just copy of someone else who made it work last season?

[Gav]

Spot on SKHT

Coyles a 1 trick poney with very little in the locker, so 4-4-2 suits him down to the ground.

But what I will say is he's now added 'playing up to the owners' whilst live on Tv to his list of abilities. That 'Charging down the touch line' for the penalties bordered on embarrassing, both wrong and designed for your watching pay masters only.

You don't fool us Owen.

[JHRover]

Who buying the club yet again when you need 25 million a season just to cover the debt? Then you need 20 million spending budget? So thats 45 million in your 1st season of owing the club and without the money you bought the club for. So probably 75 million up front straight away

If you were an investor would you buy Rovers?

Awesome post. What a hero you are. We all worship you lord Stuart

£25 million a year to cover the debt? Says who? We don't know how much the club is losing, but we can be sure it is more than it would be if we had a proper structure in place rather than this sham.

We don't need £20 million spending budget. Preston have spent next to nothing and I'd bet that their wage bill is in a similar ball park to ours, yet they are mid table/top half and making progress whilst we're going into League One. That's because they're managed properly in the boardroom and on the training ground, whereas we aren't. They aren't losing £25 million a year, don't have to sell their best players all the time and only get 10,000 a week turning up. So the myth that little Rovers can't sustain Championship football on low gates and low income has been proven wrong.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I think the reason we keep playing 4-4-2 is that Gallagher and Graham are our only remaining players of any value and Coyle is scared of leaving one out over what it might do to the dressing room.

Dyche at Burnley showed how to make 4-4-2 work in this division. You basically play long-ball with both central midfielders playing defensively and you need aggression and aerial competitiveness at all times from your front men so they can operate without much support.

In the modern era for me Rovers (indeed all clubs) should have a vast online database/library containing extensive tv footage of as many clubs from as many seasons as possible. So Coyle can just log on, pull up Burnley 2013/14 and 2015/16 and have 20 games to watch.

Coyles methods haven't worked for about 6 years. If he hasn't got the ability to modernise them, which he hasn't, then why not just copy of someone else who made it work last season?

Yeah you're right about Burnley but Dyche built the system around his players strengths. He has a good target man in Vokes and two good pacy second strikers in Ings and then Gray. A busy midfield that works hard in defence and gets the ball forward as quickly as possible. It's not rocket science but you need the players and you need the fitness levels to play 4-4-2 when lots of other teams play with 5 in midfield.

[eddy11d]

Sack Coyle and put in Dunn/Johnson or Greer if no one else wants it.

[tomphil]

Where is all this 20 mill per season budget and 25 mill per season to cover losses still coming from ??? Seen a few on twitter papping on about this again the other day, people who should know better !

If after all the sales and general dumbing down of the squad hasn't significantly reduced that then call the cops now......

Anyway went to the boxing so not seen the game yet but as usual iv'e seen endless referrals to Lowe again and not just here but i don't know why. As iv'e said almost weekly whenever he plays midfield we've done it to death over the last 4 years and we've seen it time after time, barring the odd game which suits him he's more of a hinderance than help, a poor player end of. If we are honest we have to say we've not really prospered with of without him but he also brings out the worst in Evans imo when they pair up.

One thing about him that's widely acknowledged is he must be the most pointless captain in the clubs history. Something stinks beyond even the most stinkiest stuff under this regime in regards to his first name on the teamsheet whenever fit under whoever is boss. Basically though the whole midfield needs a complete over haul.