[Archived] Blackburn

[perthblue02]

Link?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/673789/Blackburn-Islam-muslim-community-rise-of-the-burka-Koran-religion

Headline sounds likethe words to a new version of the Smith's song Panic

"Apartheid on the streets of Blackburn: How political correctness killed integration"

[speeeeeeedie]

Came across it on twitter but iv'e lost it now Al. If you go onto the Express site then type Apartheid on the streets of Blackburn into their search tab it'll come up.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/673789/Blackburn-Islam-muslim-community-rise-of-the-burka-Koran-religion

Headline sounds likethe words to a new version of the Smith's song Panic

"Apartheid on the streets of Blackburn: How political correctness killed integration"

This one was posted on here a few weeks back. It was a really good read.

[Mike E]

You can relate to his point that "Blackburn is gone"?

Sorry Mike, I can't relate to that. I can see the changes and try to understand the reasons - not point to one or two personal examples which "feather my own bed" aka viewpoint.

A viewpoint can be intolerant. Are we in an age where viewpoints cannot be questioned? I have had bad and good experiences with all walks of life, do I just base my viewpoint on my own experience or do I try to read, understand and get my head round the realities of life?

People stick to certain media outlets and groups - they like to read things that reaffirm their own thought processes.

That's not the way to form opinion, at least from my view. This article is from (IMO) the most divisive rag that this country has ever produced- I still read it, and divulged what "they want me to think!"

Finally - the last part seems like another example of unfounded fears. Why don't you feel welcome? What do these people do to alter that perception?

Well the reasons I relate are that I see that many Asian people segregate themselves entirely from the white population in the town.

I have personally been threatened at schools by parents of Asian children for little reason other than I am not their usual teacher. This has genuinely never occurred from a white parent of any nationality. There are frequently aggressive stares, complete refusals to speak to me (about their child's progress that day), and the occasional verbal threat along the lines of 'get off my street, you don't belong here' with a variety of swears included.

This is a minority, I admit! But it's a much more significant minority than white parents (nil). FYI, I am often left powerless to do anything other than refuse to work in those schools, but I'm in no position to turn down any amount of work. Hell, I've even taken on a shift at Sainsburys to try and stay afloat.

I do agree, however, that people need to read from a wide range of papers. I quite often read whatever is available that others have bought. Reckon I've read just about every paper in my time in school and I find I distrust most of them relatively equally as the agenda for both sides is complete pish.

[yoda]

Well the reasons I relate are that I see that many Asian people segregate themselves entirely from the white population in the town.

I have personally been threatened at schools by parents of Asian children for little reason other than I am not their usual teacher. This has genuinely never occurred from a white parent of any nationality. There are frequently aggressive stares, complete refusals to speak to me (about their child's progress that day), and the occasional verbal threat along the lines of 'get off my street, you don't belong here' with a variety of swears included.

This is a minority, I admit! But it's a much more significant minority than white parents (nil). FYI, I am often left powerless to do anything other than refuse to work in those schools, but I'm in no position to turn down any amount of work. Hell, I've even taken on a shift at Sainsburys to try and stay afloat.

I do agree, however, that people need to read from a wide range of papers. I quite often read whatever is available that others have bought. Reckon I've read just about every paper in my time in school and I find I distrust most of them relatively equally as the agenda for both sides is complete pish.

I would just go with your personal encounters, the reality of experience and all that.

It will make some on here a bit twitchy though.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

My experiences with my mate are mainly as low level as glaring and dirty looks as I said (specifically because I never react). Except the odd time like when an Asian lad asked me where I was going at this time of night (at 8pm) and my girlfriend at the time had "sl**" shouted at her from a car window because she was wearing a skirt. But the lower level passive hostility is fairly consistent and completely random in who it comes from.

It's not easy to find a logical reason to pass off that kind of stuff as a one-off idiot or a product of police jobs being cut.

I don't think my friend who lives there would like me mentioning his past problems on here but like i said he's had them and at times I feel a palpable tension when we're walking back from the pub or something and the classic pricey car with tinted windows and 4 lads in crawls by. I wouldn't like to live there but as I said by all means those keen on multiculturalism or who think this is fabrication to suit an agenda, feel free to give it a try and report back.

[Mike E]

One thing I should perhaps add is that I've not encountered any genuine aggression from anyone of any race outside of the areas of Audley, Whalley Range, Revidge, and Preston New Road.

Never had an issue anywhere in Lancashire, particularly (as it relates to my point) 'asian'-heavy areas like Colne, Nelson, Burnley, or Lomeshaye. There is something about Blackburn. It's not even some sort of 'home bias' as I'm a Darrener.

[Husky]

Firstly, I'm shocked that you replied for once. Normally it's; hit the intolerance, drop mic and scamper.

Secondly, thanks for proving my point. You can't see past your own examples, your own bed feathering opinion pieces and finally this idea that "whites are being oppressed!" Do you know anything about history at all? Do I need to go through what this level of xenaphobia did to all other races bar white people, for thousands of years?

Why is its hate crime? It's just another example of what taking money from frontline police services causes. When I was out drinking in Blackburn in 2005ish you couldn't go one street without a presence - they are almost impossible to find in 2016.

It's a disgusting act - and there are many other examples down the years the result of IDIOTS! Irrelevant of race, culture, creed etc. Imagine if the Adam Rogers incident had been caused by an Asian lad....

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/14951884.Blackburn_man__46__charged_with_assaulting_his_wife_and_daughter/

Is this a hate crime? Man attacks his own wife and daughter? Imagine the reaction here, if his name wasn't "Kevin"....

As for the way they treat their women... Have you actually tried talking to any Asian or Muslim women, or is this your own absolute assumption? Yes - there are some more right wing extreme beliefs within Islam that treat women like absolute dirt - are most Muslims practicing this in 2016? The answer is no.

If the answer was yes to "are most Muslims of extreme beliefs?" I doubt we'd have much of a planet left.

Talk about full tilt on the nonsense scale. Congratulations, you just broke the machine.

The comparison you've given between a domestic incident and an unmotivated unprovoked hate crime on the street is quite frankly RIDICULOUS.

Historical White Guilt and the subsequent excuses that go hand in hand with the illness are the refuge of those that haven't evolved and (as with religious teachings that are stuck in the dark ages) have no place in a modern free thinking society.

As for speaking to Muslim women - it's pretty difficult not to if one wants to do the basic official things in Blackburn. But on a personal level it's not possible these days due to the carefree nature of Muslim women and their families and the peace loving nature of of Islam. Trigger Warning - that was sarcasm.

Though when it was possible back in the 'college/uni days' it was met with derision and threats of violence from the asian males that in hindsight I realise were doing little more than just ruling over them.

Maybe in Bizzleland Muslim women and Kafirs are free to talk openly as friends and maybe even flirt a little and date. But that generally doesn't happen in the real world. Though I'll wait for you to provide me with the statistics that show me that I've been making it up all these years of living right in amongst the 'multicultural lie' in several different places.

[Mike E]

Husky alerted me to another asterisk of mine: I've only once had an issue with a 'Asian' woman and that was a breakdown of communication between someone with only basic English and a Deaf man

Most 'Asian' women are very helpful and even those with burkas/niqabs on will lift them if they know I have to lipread. No genuine fundamentalism from what I've seen.

[JBiz]

Well the reasons I relate are that I see that many Asian people segregate themselves entirely from the white population in the town.

I have personally been threatened at schools by parents of Asian children for little reason other than I am not their usual teacher. This has genuinely never occurred from a white parent of any nationality. There are frequently aggressive stares, complete refusals to speak to me (about their child's progress that day), and the occasional verbal threat along the lines of 'get off my street, you don't belong here' with a variety of swears included.

This is a minority, I admit! But it's a much more significant minority than white parents (nil). FYI, I am often left powerless to do anything other than refuse to work in those schools, but I'm in no position to turn down any amount of work. Hell, I've even taken on a shift at Sainsburys to try and stay afloat.

I do agree, however, that people need to read from a wide range of papers. I quite often read whatever is available that others have bought. Reckon I've read just about every paper in my time in school and I find I distrust most of them relatively equally as the agenda for both sides is complete pish.

I think a lot of your experience comes down to the way teaching has gone. I've seen first hand how the kids treat supply teachers and I'm not suprised that parents of some may act the same. It's a shame your experience is like that but I can see that you believe there is a bigger picture - the newspapers owners agenda are more important than the factual truth. If the schools had proper staffing levels, you'd probably have a perm job within a school and thus no need to pick up problems like you have.

Did you speak to the SLT or heads about the experiences? I often find that problems aren't dealt with because they aren't shared. I have some poor experiences with parents - my school is around 25% Asian, hence percentage wise its predominantly white parents I've had poor relationships with.

Still - the worst parents of any race, creed, religion etc are the parents you cannot contact, take no responsibility and generally don't care! We both know, there are plenty of them around in all cultures.

Talk about full tilt on the nonsense scale. Congratulations, you just broke the machine.

The comparison you've given between a domestic incident and an unmotivated unprovoked hate crime on the street is quite frankly RIDICULOUS.

Historical White Guilt and the subsequent excuses that go hand in hand with the illness are the refuge of those that haven't evolved and (as with religious teachings that are stuck in the dark ages) have no place in a modern free thinking society.

As for speaking to Muslim women - it's pretty difficult not to if one wants to do the basic official things in Blackburn. But on a personal level it's not possible these days due to the carefree nature of Muslim women and their families and the peace loving nature of of Islam. Trigger Warning - that was sarcasm.

Though when it was possible back in the 'college/uni days' it was met with derision and threats of violence from the asian males that in hindsight I realise were doing little more than just ruling over them.

Maybe in Bizzleland Muslim women and Kafirs are free to talk openly as friends and maybe even flirt a little and date. But that generally doesn't happen in the real world. Though I'll wait for you to provide me with the statistics that show me that I've been making it up all these years of living right in amongst the 'multicultural lie' in several different places.

A random attack on the street is a hate crime but a domestic issue is... A love crime?! Do you see the irony in talking about how Asian women are repressed, treat like dirt etc - and then you gloss over an incident like such because the guy responsible was not a Muslim. What about the statistics on police? Forget the budget slashing if it doesn't fit your moral code!

White guilt? Just a term made by those who wish to ignore lessons history can teach us. There is difference between guilt and awareness. I've no guilt for what white people did to other cultures, but I'm aware of why these things happened and how to use the lessons given to prevent more examples.

For all the poor experiences, I've studied, worked with, worked for,(doing sound for prayers in KMA was the best paid tech job I've ever had) dated a Muslim Syrian girl for a time before I left for university and had several different friends of British Asian descent, male and female. I trained to teach in Blackburn, I still see people from that group - 3 of them are married British Asian women, are they forced to miss our reunions due to "oppression"?

I even wrote songs with accrington lad for years (of Pakistani descent), playing many gigs in pubs where the general pay was "a crate or a few beers" for someone who doesn't drink... Never bothered him, just forced me pay for the lassi and samosas afterwards!

Personal experiences are dominated by a perception - if people are intolerant and have unfounded unnatural fears of people who are different culture, background, religion etc - their own experience will predominantly be poor. I have around 20/30 Christmas cards from students I teach - more than half are Asian, are they being oppressed? By this sarcastic tone - you wouldn't count that as "real" despite the fact that these children would need support from parents to organise and purchase the cards in the first place.

The only thing that prevents further development of multiculturalism is viewpoints like born out of ignorance. I'm not suggesting it's a white problem (Jim didn't help by saying this) because it's a lack of tolerance from both sides.

In bizzleland, ie the real world - most of society has evolved past changing their approach towards people based on cultural, racial or religious reasons. In a small percentage of humanity - regression is rife, to base fears. The small percentage of extreme practicing Muslims are just as responsible for a lack of integration as anyone - people like Isis etc, that is what they want. Fear.

It doesn't help when people perpetuate their intentions without analysing the big picture. This casual approach you and others have, to blaming all and sundry on immigration is a prime example.

[otto man]

This thread is destined to go down the usual depressing racist route; just wait til the Ukip voters start posting.

How about the Aussies and the Yanks jim? You little xenophobe you! Did you work for "Hypocrites 'R' us" by any chance?

"Most Muslims in this area are liberal and broad-minded. At the end of the day, the white people want to segregate themselves. If they want to live in predominantly white areas that is their choice"

....Car dealer AJ in the story.

and Donna Phillips in the story hasn't a problem living in a Muslim area.

As usual, it's certain types of whites who are the problem.

Would those be the Australian and American one's jim? The one's you carp about at every opportunity, you little Xenophobe you!

[Stuart]

Both within the ethnic and "native" (can't think of the word) populations. She says we are more diverse and significantly less segregated than we used to be but those in Muslim communities are the exception to that. She went on to say it was possible for young Muslims to grow up almost unaware of the community outside the one they live in.

Can't see that this has been picked up on but it's a really important point.

Just look at what has happened in Paris to see how disenfranchised young people can feel from the country they were born in - and the consequences.

"AJ" has got his head screwed on but he is a first generation British Muslim and they have a different outlook on life because they grew up mixing with non-Muslim children in their communities. The fact that he feels the need to send his children to school further afield is itself a worry. The problem is not people like AJ. The concern for, those who are pro-integration (on both sides of the religious divide), is the growing Islamic conservatism in the early 21st century that is seeing more and more niqabs worn and more ghettos created, and building literal and emotional barriers, and ultimately distrust. For instance, we are told that women who wear niqabs do so out of choice. That choice is whether or not they want to fall foul of their husband's parents (and face the consequences of the 'shame' that would bring on their family). They certainly don't wear them indoors!

[Paul]

Blackburn named High Street of the Year 2016

http://thegreatbritishhighstreet.co.uk/high-street-of-the-year-award

Worth noting Banbury and Hemel Hempstead were runners up.

[jim mk2]

Some welcome news and well deserved. A fine example of a collaboration of public and private money being put to good use.

[Mattyblue]

Good to see that Wilkinsons are going into the old BHS building, here's hoping M&S keeps its presence on King William Street too.

[ABBEY]

Sounds like another "dodgy" result . Its a dump , a victory for beggars, pound shops ,charity shops and empty shops and market stalls. Car parking is pricy and should be free no restaurants , no nightlife and no soul any more. Even the old boulevard is completely deserted apart from skater boys and a prem inn

[Paul]

Good to see that Wilkinsons are going into the old BHS building, here's hoping M&S keeps its presence on King William Street too.

Unfortunately not. As I understand it M&S Blackburn, Bolton (Reebok) and Preston are closing.

Preston late night Christmas shopping was dead last Thursday - many stores didn't stay open.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

That's a blow. I was in the Blackburn M&S not long ago and it's a really good store. My adopted home town of Rochdale ( really on it's uppers, even Macdonalds closed down in the town centre ) is supposedly building a new M&S. Having said that I'll believe it when I see it.

[Paul]

A shop floor staff member at M&S Preston had an interesting take on why the store was closing and why Christmas shopping was so quiet.

She summarised the problem as online shopping (generally and specifically M&S), people's desire to visit the Trafford Centre or similar for its' perceived variety and avoiding the charity collectors, homeless and Big Issue vendors.

This last point was one I'd never considered. I don't want to see people living on the street because in our society it should not happen and is an indictment of our failures. My shopping habits aren't dictated to by the presence of people in this awful situation.

One of our local Big Issue sellers positions himself outside Booths door. I'm always surprised, and this is a credit to Booths, that he hasn't been moved on. I see him as a great reminder if I can afford Booths £2.50 for a Big Issue is a very small thing. Speaking to the vendors is equally important as buying - the Romanian lady in Chorley gives out hugs!

Chuggers though I'm never happy with though they do seem to have disappeared from Chorley.

[Mattyblue]

M&S is lucky it has its food or it would be in an even worse state. It is a company that has taken its eye off the ball. Easy enough to just blame the internet etc.

[tomphil]

Walking around Manchester Saturday evening it was shocking to see the amount of people in doorways and just lying on the street in sleeping bags. There was one in every other doorway in certain areas and only place iv'e seen it similar to that is central London.

Something isn't right but i'd guess at least half are economic migrants who have a home somewhere.

[adopted scouser]

I don't know why they don't let the homeless kip under 'The Mall' on freezing nights. It's like an oven in there with a lot of the air con venting into the basement area.

Cordon off an area and order them out by 7am.

A little charity costing nothing and nobody dies from hypothermia.

[JAL]

A better show this evening at Blackburn cathedral with great fireworks, great entertainment and a great service.

Couldn't see anyone from Blackburn Rovers at the community carol service.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Walking around Manchester Saturday evening it was shocking to see the amount of people in doorways and just lying on the street in sleeping bags. There was one in every other doorway in certain areas and only place iv'e seen it similar to that is central London.

Yep, I was at a gig in the Piccadilly area last night and couldn't believe the numbers. It was damned cold too.

[Mattyblue]

Is the biggest Xmas miracle off all on the cards? The re-emergence of a nightlife in Blackburn?

Long way to go, of course, but the last few months has seen;

- Drummers Arms opening next to the old cinema

- Next door to it opening soon as a cocktail bar

- Turtle Bay soon opening

- Cellar Bar and the warehouse venue next door reopening

- Live Lounge re-opening

It'll never reach the levels of 15/20 years ago, I would wager, but welcome all the same.

[tomphil]

It needs the places opening then hopefully they stick it out. Won't happen overnight but get a few places up and running and a half decent summer and off it goes again.