[Archived] New Sporting Director Rumour

[ABBEY]

Did you miss me baby?

Lots of Luv

PUNEROVER

I rest my case

No, it isn't a one off Rev.

"Through effective use of a global network, underpinned by technology, data and evidence/ factual led processes has personally detected and successfully recruited to professional football over 100 players currently playing Premiership, Championship and other levels of league football in the UK and abroad. Enabling his clubs to progress the Moneyball concept long before recent popularity amongst UK clubs."

Basically we've recruited a man who believes in and pushes the moneyball concept. Apparently that's a system where an "undervalued" player is judged on statistical analysis, rather than by actually having a manager/scouts watching performances. obviously "undervalued" means cheap. The idea is to look at players statistically and hope to add value to them, in order to sell on. Sits in nicely with Venkys don't you think? For me, it's a system for the people who wouldn't recognise a player if they did see one. Of course the alternative is to employ a manager who has his own style of play, who knows a player when he sees one and is backed by a CEO capable of bringing in the best players the club can afford.

So on top of having a football director, (apparently run out of Sheffield Wed pretty damn quick), looking for "undervalued" players, we have one married to an agent who's main priority is to find work for her client. Isn't that what an agent does? How does this sit in?

And this backing up a manager who many doubt is good enough in the first place.

Progress? Moving in the right direction?

It all still points to a certain @#/? agent I reckon ( allegedly)

[Garage Flower]

I'm pretty sure Brentford use a "moneyball" type system. I'm sure whatever comes of this it'll be bad for us unfortunately. Looks like Venky's aren't going anywhere for a while.

[47er]

No, it isn't a one off Rev.

"Through effective use of a global network, underpinned by technology, data and evidence/ factual led processes has personally detected and successfully recruited to professional football over 100 players currently playing Premiership, Championship and other levels of league football in the UK and abroad. Enabling his clubs to progress the Moneyball concept long before recent popularity amongst UK clubs."

Basically we've recruited a man who believes in and pushes the moneyball concept. Apparently that's a system where an "undervalued" player is judged on statistical analysis, rather than by actually having a manager/scouts watching performances. obviously "undervalued" means cheap. The idea is to look at players statistically and hope to add value to them, in order to sell on. Sits in nicely with Venkys don't you think? For me, it's a system for the people who wouldn't recognise a player if they did see one. Of course the alternative is to employ a manager who has his own style of play, who knows a player when he sees one and is backed by a CEO capable of bringing in the best players the club can afford.

So on top of having a football director, (apparently run out of Sheffield Wed pretty damn quick), looking for "undervalued" players, we have one married to an agent who's main priority is to find work for her client. Isn't that what an agent does? How does this sit in?

And this backing up a manager who many doubt is good enough in the first place.

Progress? Moving in the right direction?

Shows once again what we have known for some years now that Venky Rovers is not about results on the field. Its about signing and developing players to sell on for a profit not to make the team stronger. And, before you say it Parson, it was NEVER thus in the 60"s, 70's and eighties.

Sometimes we had to sell to survive but that was never the point of it. It is the only point now.

But its not our point is it, so why support it?

Did you miss me baby?

Lots of Luv

PUNEROVER

Dingle for sure and shouldn't be on here.

[perthblue02]

Percentage Rovers Football Club, everyone welcome to grab a piece except the supporters. Don't forget the conditioner with your percentage sir

[chor808]

Seems like Swansea using the same system.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38517716

[Dunnfc]

Don't think this appointment changes anything concerning staying.

Sqeeze a lemon enough times and the pips will drop out too. Appointed to see the best youths offloaded and any first team player above 8kpwk, bank the cash and administration for the 27th March, making him redundant!

[tomphil]

If they are staying it does point to a low budget pile em high sell cheap type model focusing on quantity rather than quality. Every now and again a big one will come along to keep it all worthwhile whilst the lesser ones move through the books paying the bills.

[West Yorks Rover]

Doesn't matter one iota who is brought into this football club, whilst the Venksters remain, we are totally and utterly fecked.

[bellamy11]

IMO "Moneyball" works a lot better in a sport like baseball where there are far fewer "moving parts" (i.e. players) influencing each other, plus it's highly repetitive and stats-orientated. There are fewer random variables, and they also play far more matches so the sample size for the data is more robust.

That said, I totally believe in the rationale behind it. I've read a lot about behavioural economics in recent years and we're incredibly subject to flawed interpretations and ways of making decisions. And this can be more true of "experts" than anyone else. They overrate certain factors, completely miss/underrate statistically significant things (whatever they may be), become biased by recency, and get distracted unconsciously by lots of silly things. But conventional wisdom is to follow the expert because they "just know".

So an example from "Soccernomics" that I always seem to remember would be that apparently blonde players are picked out more easily when scouting, simply because they stand out. Once you've noticed them, their positive actions resonate more. A brown-haired player with no distinguishing features has to do more to have the same effect.

I'm sketchy on the specifics because it's not my sport but when applied to American Football, there's a particular blocker who is critical to defending the quarterback, but up until fairly recently that position was one of the least well-paid and teams didn't pay too much attention to having quality in that area. Now it's critical.

In baseball, people looked for glamour stats like number of home runs, but the analysis showed the chances of scoring runs was more influenced by being in situations where players successfully left pitches that weren't strikes. That had never been prioritised before. Until you capture things like that in statistical analysis, you can't possibly see it.

As Rev says, not everything can be boiled down to stats. So of course you need certain judgements made by experienced people. But done correctly, stats tell a more unbiased story. That said, the last thing we want is Steve Kean explaining we should have beaten Aston Villa because of the number of penalty box entries we had.

For me the issue isn't so much whether "Moneyball" works. It's whether this guy (and his team) are any good at it, and whether we have the £££, decision-making clarity and wherewithal to execute it. To which, the answer is obviously "nope".

[RoverCanada]

bellamy11, you're thinking of Left Tackles, who protect QBs 'blind side'. I actually literally just started reading Michael Lewis' 'The Blind Side' haha, who also wrote Moneyball (both having been made into movies). The story there isn't entirely statistical either. It's how a revolution in the tactics of the game (i.e. the major shift toward passing over running) made defending the QB more important, which thus emphasised the importance of the most vulnerable side of the offensive line, the left tackle.

Baseball can be bit more single-minded toward statistics given it's a much more controllable environment, but more free-flowing sports will always be more difficult to evaluate on an entirely statistical level, and any sensible observer would recognise there will always be a need for the 'eye test', managing personalities, etc. The most contentious statistics in baseball are related to fielding, i.e. the most free-flowing part of the game.

You can't dismiss increased use of statistics outright, particularly as they're continually improving tracking and data collection. It's not just Brentford doing this stuff, pretty much every PL team is doing so, particularly Liverpool if I remember right. Soccernomics also points out how Liverpool buying Andy Carroll was based on a misplaced trust in data showing the best way to win games was pump the bull into the box and complete as many crosses as possible, hence Carroll's absurd transfer. Data should be used with care, and continuously improved where possible (and hence the introduction of tracking cameras, trackers on kits, etc.) and its interaction with tactics, player types, etc. can't be ignored. Too many 'haters' of statistics build up absurd strawmen to attack it.

Brentford rightly took some stick for how they got rid of Warburton, and their coaching carousel last year (they actually managed 9th last year after a late win spurt, could've sworn they finished worse!). However, even if Brentford's not reaching the lofty heights of the playoffs as they did two years ago (and their statistical models apparently predicted that year WAS an outlier, partly influencing Warburton's departure), they're still punching way above their weight being in the Championship in the first place (and staying here), and their statistically minded owner has also directed FC Midtjylland's recent success in the Danish league (which apparently is partly due to a huge emphasis on practising set pieces based on the data they've collected)

... what were we talking about again... I blacked out.

Oh right, having said all that, as bellamy11 says above, I'll believe this new guy is even remotely capable of harnessing stats and identifying undervalued players (not a bad idea considering how bad our revenue now is, particularly when competing against clubs receiving parachute payment) when I see it... I suspect the Championship's data collection is far behind the PL's, and even the PL's needs continous improvement and investment. I have my doubts this is a sign of Rovers now putting together a crack team of data analysts...

[ABBEY]

The only stat I know is is venkyscum & Anderson have 100% shagged us over !!!!

[adopted scouser]

Might aswell have been Kenny Senior with these idiots

[davulsukur]

So the Food Chain now will go....Coyle to Senior...detour to Cheston....on to Pasha(after trying to locate him)...then to India via Pune Secretariat...maybe onto Rao dinner-table or to Balaji's Club....then Decision(or Flob around)

Lets try it and see if ONE decision will be made by end of January 'Window'.

Sounds like you'll be surprised to hear they've already made 2.

1. Sell anything not nailed down

2. Buy nothing

Also, if this moneyball system is based around stats, shouldn't it see Coyle of in rapid fashion? His stats must be truly grim.

[bob fleming]

No, it isn't a one off Rev.

"Through effective use of a global network, underpinned by technology, data and evidence/ factual led processes has personally detected and successfully recruited to professional football over 100 players currently playing Premiership, Championship and other levels of league football in the UK and abroad. Enabling his clubs to progress the Moneyball concept long before recent popularity amongst UK clubs."

Basically we've recruited a man who believes in and pushes the moneyball concept. Apparently that's a system where an "undervalued" player is judged on statistical analysis, rather than by actually having a manager/scouts watching performances. obviously "undervalued" means cheap. The idea is to look at players statistically and hope to add value to them, in order to sell on. Sits in nicely with Venkys don't you think? For me, it's a system for the people who wouldn't recognise a player if they did see one. Of course the alternative is to employ a manager who has his own style of play, who knows a player when he sees one and is backed by a CEO capable of bringing in the best players the club can afford.

So on top of having a football director, (apparently run out of Sheffield Wed pretty damn quick), looking for "undervalued" players, we have one married to an agent who's main priority is to find work for her client. Isn't that what an agent does? How does this sit in?

And this backing up a manager who many doubt is good enough in the first place.

Progress? Moving in the right direction?

Well said den. I've never read such crap. "Money ball" with a sprinkling of Pixie dust, all will be well soon. We'll soon wipe off that 100 odd million of debt then go again.

Or just sell off everything worth a few quid then feck off more like.

If anyone thinks this clowns appointment is in anyway a positive then dream on. He might get rid of Coyle (no bad thing) but having read his resume he probably fancies the gig himself.

[Athlete]

Well said den. I've never read such crap. "Money ball" with a sprinkling of Pixie dust, all will be well soon. We'll soon wipe off that 100 odd million of debt then go again.

Or just sell off everything worth a few quid then feck off more like.

If anyone thinks this clowns appointment is in anyway a positive then dream on. He might get rid of Coyle (no bad thing) but having read his resume he probably fancies the gig himself.

he got sacked at Sheff wed............

[bob fleming]

he got sacked at Sheff wed............

Well there you go then. Just when I was backing him up......

[Baz]

The baseball model was based on having batters who don't necessarily score home runs, but get to first Base regularly. Get 2 or 3 of them and you score points. The league was spending all its money on big hitters, one club took the risk, had one successful season, then everyone else cottoned on, and they fell down the league again.

I'm not having it that Kenny bought Andy Carroll on the basis of money ball- he bought him because he thought he'd score loads of goals for Liverpool. Same reason he bought Jordan Henderson and tried to buy Phil Jones - he thought they where the best young talent. Liverpool don't buy players for them to be worth more in the future.

You don't need a data analyst to tell you that a fit Andy Carroll and an accurate crosser, would score goals in any league in the world.

[bob fleming]

The baseball model was based on having batters who don't necessarily score home runs, but get to first Base regularly. Get 2 or 3 of them and you score points. The league was spending all its money on big hitters, one club took the risk, had one successful season, then everyone else cottoned on, and they fell down the league again.

I'm not having it that Kenny bought Andy Carroll on the basis of money ball- he bought him because he thought he'd score loads of goals for Liverpool. Same reason he bought Jordan Henderson and tried to buy Phil Jones - he thought they where the best young talent. Liverpool don't buy players for them to be worth more in the future.

You don't need a data analyst to tell you that a fit Andy Carroll and an accurate crosser, would score goals in any league in the world.

Ah, yes, well, Kenny costs money though. In fact a "kenny" is the one thing this regime has successfully avoided for six years, for some godforsaken reason. Someone who knows exactly what to do. Instead they place their faith in chancers, losers and blaggers. Step forward Mr Senior. I expect he'll be on the phone to every club in the championship, div 1 and 2 trying to shift whatever we have left for whatever we can.

After all, looking at the other thread, Venkys are now knees deep in powder. It was always a matter of time. Belaji there, the face, and the left tit, of Indian Sports nutrition.

[RevidgeBlue]

The baseball model was based on having batters who don't necessarily score home runs, but get to first Base regularly. Get 2 or 3 of them and you score points. The league was spending all its money on big hitters, one club took the risk, had one successful season, then everyone else cottoned on, and they fell down the league again.

I'm not having it that Kenny bought Andy Carroll on the basis of money ball- he bought him because he thought he'd score loads of goals for Liverpool. Same reason he bought Jordan Henderson and tried to buy Phil Jones - he thought they where the best young talent. Liverpool don't buy players for them to be worth more in the future.

You don't need a data analyst to tell you that a fit Andy Carroll and an accurate crosser, would score goals in any league in the world.

Exactly. You don't need to be a genius either now though to realise with the benefit of hindsight that Carroll is an exceptionally bad investment as he's never fit.

Conversely he'd probably figure near the top of any money ball type rankings because if you could ever get him fit he'd offer very good perceived value.

[USABlue]

Funnily enough there was a post on twitter just before from a Charlton fan bemoaning the amount of youth players they'd flogged in recent years

What did I say about why he is here? Might not be far off.

[bob fleming]

Exactly. You don't need to be a genius either now though to realise with the benefit of hindsight that Carroll is an exceptionally bad investment as he's never fit.

Conversely he'd probably figure near the top of any money ball type rankings because if you could ever get him fit he'd offer very good perceived value.

But no one ever could with AC Rev. Kenny messed up. Overpaid somewhat shall we say. It could easily have happened here if Shearer hadn't have recovered from the acl. We were lucky in that he had a worse one pre season for Newcastle v Everton and he did his Achilles, never the same player, bloody awful in fact. Only bagged 20 a season from then on in ish. :-)

Anyway, back to this stats bollokcs. Stats get you Jason Lowe, runs around all day, plays the percentages. Give me a Dunn or a Tugay every day of the week.

89.56% passing completion, 29 miles run, no goals, no assists, no tackles Vs 69%, 200 yards, no tackles, no goals and 2 assists. Oh and a bit of fun and excitement.

Remember that anyone? Fun and excitement?

#venkysout

[USABlue]

I'm pretty sure Brentford use a "moneyball" type system. I'm sure whatever comes of this it'll be bad for us unfortunately. Looks like Venky's aren't going anywhere for a while.

No they are not, not till they have squeezed every saleable asset from the club. That is why Senior is here to dig deep, into the youth, look for gems there.

[tomphil]

Well the second hand rumour i was told the other day was along the lines of some inside the club expecting them to now just only be interested in getting back as much as possible.

Didn't this guys CV have something about recovering bad debts for clubs and debt management on it ? All ties in and i also wonder if someone owes add ons or something and they aren't paying up ?

[MGAndy]

So is this his wife? I doubt it is looking at the pics as one mentions her late husband

https://twitter.com/gates_laraine

https://mobile.twitter.com/gates_laraine

a bit touchy about it

https://mobile.twitter.com/Larasouthworth

[philipl]

So that is why he was appointed- extends the stranglehold by the agents.

The Academy will be wrecked.