[Archived] A Scab In The Park

[gumboots]

I have a friend who is a Stockport fan. He was telling me that they are far worse off than most of the teams in their league, because they have managed to keep their heads above water. Teams that have gone into admin or even gone bust and reformed like Darlington are doing much better.

[RevidgeBlue]

Mate, you said "I have thought about it and I am doing something"... Comedy gold... And now you're telling me I've lost the plot! You've been good value today fella.

As you seem to be having difficulty grasping the simplest of concepts today I'll spell it out in words of one syllable. I'm doing something by continuing my support at the ground. Deciding I'd had enough shrugging my shoulders and walking away. That would be doing nothing in my book.

I have a friend who is a Stockport fan. He was telling me that they are far worse off than most of the teams in their league, because they have managed to keep their heads above water. Teams that have gone into admin or even gone bust and reformed like Darlington are doing much better.

Yes but that requires the owners to leave. I've no idea why they're still here really but they are and until such point as they do decide to leave we have to deal with things as they are not how we'd like them to be.

[Reedy You're A Star]

Weren't the same arguments made about getting rid of Bowyer as manager? "Who will want to takeover?", "we won't get anyone better", then in walked Lambert and his team. Regardless of how it ended with them, the same point applies for Venkys.

[gumboots]

As you seem to be having difficulty grasping the simplest of concepts today I'll spell it out in words of one syllable. I'm doing something by continuing my support at the ground. Deciding I'd had enough shrugging my shoulders and walking away. That would be doing nothing in my book.

Yes but that requires the owners to leave. I've no idea why they're still here really but they are and until such point as they do decide to leave we have to deal with things as they are not how we'd like them to be.

his point was that putting money into your club as Stockport support has generally done as their numbers have held up well is not necessarily benificial in the long term.

[Neal]

As you seem to be having difficulty grasping the simplest of concepts today I'll spell it out in words of one syllable. I'm doing something by continuing my support at the ground. Deciding I'd had enough shrugging my shoulders and walking away. That would be doing nothing in my book.

I get it mate, you just don't seem to be grasping the comical element of your post but then again you're obviously not going to laugh... Thanks for spelling it out though but you're already simple enough to understand. Cheers.

[arbitro]

That's a very fair point but the counter argument is that while there's still life there's hope. What if Venky's walked away tomorrow and refused to write off their proportion of the debt and no-one would take us on? That's the end of that let alone "may" never recover.

It's not an easy conundrum, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. We all would like them out in an ideal world but unfortunately we need them in the immediate term due to the God awful mess they've created.

I believe there has been a certain inevitability about this for some time now whether they went now or in a few years time. They have created this mess and the longer they stick around the worse it is getting financially which surely will make it even more difficult to offload us. This is the converse of your argument and the (I believe) relegation this season will compound this and certainly push us closer to the abyss. Pretty much we are screwed whichever way but I believe we would be less screwed by them going asap.

[jim mk2]

I agree with you Stuart. But would like to add that any protest worth doing has to stop a match. This means possibly breaking the law or sailing very close to it.

Spot on Jock. Would spark publicity around the world which yesterday's sadly did not.

[Amo]

Said it once, will say it again: There's a small-time mentality embedded into a core of Rovers support. Despite Uncle Jack elevating the club to the next level, expectations have once again fallen in line with the (I daresay) parochial supporter base who are convinced that what is happening under Venky's is part of the natural order of things. Parsonblue epitomized this mindset in his pathetic attempts to justify Gary Bowyer's untenable position as manager. Need we remind people that before this shower rocked up, we were an established Premier League club who had enjoyed 11 successive years in the top-flight that served as a shining beacon for the rest of our peers. In the space of a few years, all of that good work has been undone. We've known only humiliation from the moment they arrived and become the laughing stock of the game, staring down the barrel of third division football. This wasn't some inexorable natural occurrence, this was a series of avoidable decisions from our parasitic owners and their middlemen, who have destroyed the club's identity and run Jack's legacy into the ground. I'd love to know what the anti-protesters actually believe they are 'supporting' when they try to take the moral highground on this subject.

[perthblue02]

Is there a tipping point for those that have decided not to protest? based on some of the arguments for not protesting would any of these do it for you? (I am sure there are plenty more)

The club colours are changed (I will always watch a team in blue and white)

A strong rumour with overwhelming evidence that the ground is being sold and the club is moved elsewhere (As long as there is a team playing at Ewood Park)

It is proved that Venky's are staying because people are still paying to attend (The club needs my support)

We finish 14th in Division 3 (League 1) (the argument of we have been here before is no longer valid)

Not a dig at anybody just genuinely interested at what peoples tipping point is.

[Neal]

I'd love to know what the anti-protesters actually believe they are 'supporting' when they try to take the moral highground on this subject.

Journeymen, Owen Coyle, Pasha, Cheston, Bob Coar, Venkys, corruption, ignorance is all I see... They may speak about our rich history but non of that is relevant to today. These are the people at the club, blaming us, conning us, taking a wage. No hiding.

[RevidgeBlue]

Is there a tipping point for those that have decided not to protest? based on some of the arguments for not protesting would any of these do it for you? (I am sure there are plenty more)

The club colours are changed (I will always watch a team in blue and white)

A strong proven rumour that the ground is being sold and the club is moved elsewhere (As long as there is a team playing at Ewood Park)

It is proved that Venky's are staying because people are still paying to attend (The club needs my support)

We finish 14th in Division 3 (League 1) (the argument of we have been here before is no longer valid)

Not a dig at anybody just genuinely interested at what peoples tipping point is.

Good post. I've been thinking about this the last few days in the light of all the debate surrounding the protests at the Blackpool game.

If the colours were changed I'd protest vigorously but might still attend. If we did an MK Don's and relocated to say Lancaster I wouldn't because although it might still technically be called Blackburn Rovers it wouldn't be the same Club any more than a phoenix Club operating from a different location would be.

Not sure it would be possible to ever prove the fans are keeping them here when we're still losing 1m per month.

[Ricky]

The title of this thread is really going to encourage non-protesters to join the protests isn't it.

[Neal]

The title of this thread is really going to encourage non-protesters to join the protests isn't it.

Because people need any excuse... If that's enough to put people off then they aren't up for the fight, might as well stay vegetating in the ST seats, not chanting and not protesting. My dad and some of his mates have been going for 30 odd years, something like that wouldn't put them off protesting.

[RevidgeBlue]

Journeymen, Owen Coyle, Pasha, Cheston, Bob Coar, Venkys, corruption, ignorance is all I see... They may speak about our rich history but non of that is relevant to today. These are the people at the club, blaming us, conning us, taking a wage. No hiding.

It may not be good at the moment but when they all go, if the Club is still in existence it's the same Club it always was.

[chaddyrovers]

Is there a tipping point for those that have decided not to protest? based on some of the arguments for not protesting would any of these do it for you? (I am sure there are plenty more)

Not a dig at anybody just genuinely interested at what peoples tipping point is.

firstly misread the question so ignore first answer

This question gets asked weekly by different people

I don't know why you keep asking these types of questions tbf. Why does they have to be a tipping point to everything.

if you want protest then protest and if you don't then don't. why cant people just accept people views and stance and get on with their life.

[gumboots]

You must be some kind of masochist!

[RevidgeBlue]

I'd love to know what the anti-protesters actually believe they are 'supporting' when they try to take the moral highground on this subject.

I've never seen anyone who still attends attempt to take the moral high ground. That's a disparaging label of "Superfan" which is put on those that still attend by those that don't.

[perthblue02]

This question gets asked weekly by different people

my answer, when I stop enjoying watching Blackburn Rovers and football.

So Venkys can change the kit/colours , move the team away from Ewood and Venky's succesfully (in their minds) take the club to its worst ever league finish in its history and at no stage in that scenario you would not feel the need to protest, I am reading that right ? because the question was what is your tipping point to protest

[RevidgeBlue]

This question gets asked weekly by different people

my answer, when I stop enjoying watching Blackburn Rovers and football.

Bloody Hell chaddy I wouldn't go that far. If I'd stopped going when I stopped enjoying the football I'd probably have packed in when the Trustees drove Mark Hughes out let alone the last 6 years. Lol.

[arbitro]

I've never seen anyone who still attends attempt to take the moral high ground. That's a disparaging label of "Superfan" which is put on those that still attend by those that don't.

That is too much of a generalisation and makes it sound like every boycotter uses this term. In reality how many? I have seen it used by one person but admittedly I don't read every single post.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Journeymen, Owen Coyle, Pasha, Cheston, Bob Coar, Venkys, corruption, ignorance is all I see... They may speak about our rich history but non of that is relevant to today. These are the people at the club, blaming us, conning us, taking a wage. No hiding.

"...power and greed

And corruptible seed

Seem to be all that there is."

Is Bob Dylan a Rovers fan? If so, maybe he was having a "Senior" moment. That video yuk!

[Amo]

I've never seen anyone who still attends attempt to take the moral high ground. That's a disparaging label of "Superfan" which is put on those that still attend by those that don't.

Exhibit A, your honour:

I know the concept of supporting through 'thick and thin' is not a popular one on this forum but it is a principle I have held all my life and still continue to do so.

[Dunnfc]

No point in the anti-protesters/boycotters posting in this thread in my opinion, not one post can be made without an argument from those still attending, it appears that those attending can't quietly leave it be, numerous posts yesterday almost deriding anything protesting was made during and after the game (not just on here). This thread (One of Many) is about action being taken which you've confirmed your wishes as to not get involved with so at the minute all what is being created is disagreements and there needs to be a cut off to facilitate both wishes, people taking action now have momentum and this needs to be sustained. We all hate the owners and those in charge of the day to day running of the club, the protesters probably more so hence clear actions being displayed but there is no doubt in my mind we all wish to see the backs of these lot. Boxing day always used to be a close family event for me and this year i had to tell everyone no we are not going (all 12) that was the moment which for me made me realise i need to help the boycotters and co out more.

We all have our reasons for our actions but recently from my experience on BRFCC I've purported facts based on stats and finances only to be told "I'm wrong" talking B/S or the same 3-4 posters in unison ignoring it despite everything being there in black and white. I'm exceptionally proud to be seen fighting for my club, i will do what it takes even if my efforts may fail, i do not want the same Celtic phrase recently lauded over Rangers supporters at the OF "You let your club die" associated with me. I'm happy to wish the non-protesters and boycotters enjoyment in there wishes to still attend but i hope one day they will be big enough when we are left with the pieces putting them back together to say thanks. As soon as Venkys and Co leave the hardest bit of work will begin and it will take each and every person associated with this club to put it back together.

I can only continue to praise the likes of Mark Fish and Glen Mullan whom after six years continue to investigate continued malpractices and the wrong doing of this once great community and football club, to me these guys will go down in our history as almost saviors. I myself unconnected with these guys have been putting several bits together whilst working with people at putting something in place if the event of administration/liquidation occurs this season +. I'm compiling things as well as a analysis of the accounts which i think i will put into a power point at some stage ready to issue to provide a simple overview for those who might not have been able to thus far.

I see posts all over the net concerning funding, you have to ask yourself what level of funding? the debt is still there and continues to grow, only share capital being increased and only duly paid when called upon which postpones the date when "Investment" can be paid for. The debt is there, it's not paid off it's just the SBOI (Bank) signing the cheques to release further monies from loans and anongoing 10 million overdraft. Anyone connected with the Rangers and Leeds cases will denote the bank taking over the eventual running of the club and decision making, given the volume of sales in the last eighteen months, i am of the personal opinion that the bank is starting to squeeze the club. The only safety is the fact there are no current charges against the assets of VLL (BRFC) made to date and registered with Companies House although the SBOI reserve the right to place a charge at any time which is why it's important to make sure training ground, academy, car parks etc are only to be used for sporting purposes and hold a CAV (Community Asset Value) which would lower the value of these assets and make it tricker and cheaper to sell/buy in the future for anything un sporting related.

Lastly I don't think many understand that a further relegation to league one resigns this club in it's current state to a very bleak future, i refer to the 2015 accounts which stipulated 129.36% of turnover currently being used for wages/salaries (28.2 million) of a turnover (21.8 million). This is set to drop to 15 million anyways from a lack of parachute monies and a drop of almost 2 million in match-day monies for 2016 (Current Season) hence we have seen to date quite an aggressive salary cutting measure in place. The financial fair play (FFP) for league one clubs restrict any participating club to strictly 60% of annual turnover, Coventry City (Similar gates) achieved a 4.7 million revenue covering the same period, other league one clubs in that period Bristol City achieved 9.3 million (20k crowds) meaning an annual wage bill of 5.58 million (@ 60%).

There are exceptions to the above where clubs have exasperated the figures slightly such as players under 20 are exempt, and players signed for longer than 3 years in the relegation prior season remain exempt however bar Nyambe and Mahoney all our players currently would remain under these rules as they all signed less than 3 year deals bar Mulgrew (3 years).

Sure you can tell from the above but what you've seen these last 18 months is just the start and to have gone from 15k crowds to 9k with boycotters to date then this will have even more of a significant effect should we slip into L1. Anyone doubting any effect boycotts and protests have needs to look at the FFP rules.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php

DunnFC

[Leonard Venkhater]

Journeymen, Owen Coyle, Pasha, Cheston, Bob Coar, Venkys, corruption, ignorance is all I see... They may speak about our rich history but non of that is relevant to today. These are the people at the club, blaming us, conning us, taking a wage. No hiding.

Collymore calls them"flunkies"

[chaddyrovers]

Bloody Hell chaddy I wouldn't go that far. If I'd stopped going when I stopped enjoying the football I'd probably have packed in when the Trustees drove Mark Hughes out let alone the last 6 years. Lol.

I've misread the question. so I have re answered it now.

Mark Hughes was doing a great job here and that's why the trust should have backed him in the signing of Michael Bradley. would have a very good signing for us.