[Archived] A Scab In The Park

[Athlete]

That is the problem though Neal. Those of us still going can look ourselves in the mirror today and know that we are doing the right thing which is why we had 9,000 on yesterday, including 1,400 or more from Blackpool. Deep down we know that continuing to support the club is the right thing to do.

The reason for the higher than expected crowd was the cost PB nothing to do with right or wrong. A lot took kids to watch a affordable game

[JBiz]

The club is Blackburn Rovers FC and nothing else, whilst players, managers, staff and owners will change - the original "club" is the same and whilst some cannot disconnect this from the ownership or poor manager, some people can. The labels associated with those - Super fans, Scabs etc just divide opinion further. We all have aspects of life we put up with, some can't with Rovers and I can fully understand that.

To be labelled because I'm not marching with my pensioner father and would rather prioritise the time I have left to actually go for a pint with him and see a match! It's ridiculous to finger point like that. The onus is NOT on the protests to convince fans to join in, but it's certainly plausible to say those throwing labels could put many off.

Anybody with a semblance of awareness(not born yesterday) will know what's happened to us so there is no need to claim ignorance or apathy for the mistakes made. I sit there pretty @#/? glum, even at two nil up, it's almost as if many who criticise the lack of action think it's a bed of roses. What are those people supporting? Well at times it's difficult but as I said, the club is the same as it has always been.

There is no need to justify continued support through thick and thin. This is not a product that will simply disappear without sales until it re engages its customers, it's a social and public institution that represents generations of Blackburners. It might be easier for some to say NAPM but have respect for those who can't simply give it up without GUARANTEES that they aren't hurting the club even more. Or the other common emotion I get; "I'm not giving this seat up"... I may not have a choice if they close the Riverside.

It doesn't occur to some that further damage is the potential outcome of a total boycott, despite constant usage of the belief "they'll have to act if it's an empty stadium.."

Well the nearest example I've seen is Bloomfield road, and I can't see an end to their problems with an owners who ACTUALLY WANT TO SELL!!

TL:DR - there's no quick fix, obvious way to return to past glory so don't criticise those who might believe in a different solution.

[DE.]

Is there a tipping point for those that have decided not to protest? based on some of the arguments for not protesting would any of these do it for you? (I am sure there are plenty more)

The club colours are changed (I will always watch a team in blue and white)

A strong rumour with overwhelming evidence that the ground is being sold and the club is moved elsewhere (As long as there is a team playing at Ewood Park)

It is proved that Venky's are staying because people are still paying to attend (The club needs my support)

We finish 14th in Division 3 (League 1) (the argument of we have been here before is no longer valid)

Not a dig at anybody just genuinely interested at what peoples tipping point is.

At this point I think the tipping point for most who currently aren't protesting would be relocation. The football and team in general are so dire now that if you are still happy to go then I see no reason why you wouldn't keep going whether we're in League One, League Two or below. Similarly I don't think the colours changing or the details of ownership structure are significant factors for people who still attend matches. As long as there is a team playing at Ewood Park, for those who are still attending, this is a good enough reason to keep going and supporting whatever it is Blackburn Rovers has become and represents. If the club was no longer at Ewood that would be a major factor that would definitely see more people (not all, but a fair few) decide enough is enough. I don't think many of them would join in protests, though, I think they'd just give up.

But then, most of those who don't go now are not actively boycotting or protesting, they've just given up and found better things to do. The overall amount of protesters will roughly stay the same regardless of people attending at this point, imo. It's sadly not enough and never will be enough, as the likes of Glen Mullan have found out over the course of the years. We've probably already had our peak in terms of people willing to protest, back when we were still in the PL and Kean was the target. Nowadays we have a combination of apathy and despair which will lead remaining fans to just walk away as opposed to fight.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Said it once, will say it again: There's a small-time mentality embedded into a core of Rovers support. Despite Uncle Jack elevating the club to the next level, expectations have once again fallen in line with the (I daresay) parochial supporter base who are convinced that what is happening under Venky's is part of the natural order of things. Parsonblue epitomized this mindset in his pathetic attempts to justify Gary Bowyer's untenable position as manager. Need we remind people that before this shower rocked up, we were an established Premier League club who had enjoyed 11 successive years in the top-flight that served as a shining beacon for the rest of our peers. In the space of a few years, all of that good work has been undone. We've known only humiliation from the moment they arrived and become the laughing stock of the game, staring down the barrel of third division football. This wasn't some inexorable natural occurrence, this was a series of avoidable decisions from our parasitic owners and their middlemen, who have destroyed the club's identity and run Jack's legacy into the ground. I'd love to know what the anti-protesters actually believe they are 'supporting' when they try to take the moral highground on this subject.

I was so impressed by the Blackpool fans I met before the protest.Perhaps, their story is more simple and easier to explain than our own.

I was proud of our own protesters, but sad there were not many more.. I heard my own son, telling a Blackpool supporter that he could not understand why there was not more Blackburn "wrath"- he must have been reading the O.T!

It is highly unpalatable, but perhaps,Anderson, Venky's et al knew exactly what they were doing when they chose to target Blackburn Rovers with its supine fanbase!

[mustard]

1. We can't be there then Venky's have gone if we've already gone bust. Secondly I feel the further we drop and the more the fans drop off the less attractive we become to alternative investors.

2. Finally, if protests by a relatively small number of fans are deemed to be a good thing and meant to grab the attention, why wouldn't protests by a much larger number be even more effective?

1. We have just as much chance of dropping with Venky's at the helm than not. This is why we protest. Because we have dropped 30 places down the football pyramid and keep falling and we want to stop it. Turning up and clapping along isn't arresting this decline, is it? Turning up and pretending everything is ok does not make it so.

2. Well, if a larger number took part in the march, as opposed to ignoring it to watch the footy, then it would have been more effective! That's the point. But 8000 fans choosing to enter the ground and not take part in any demonstration makes such attempts futile. And it's the collective "it won't work" attitude that is holding us back.

A large protest INSIDE the ground can be brushed under the carpet. "20k in today madam, all very happy". See the Kean days for examples of that. Point is, a boycott from entering the ground, even just for one game, is visible, tangible and hits the V's where it hurts. Surely attendances of around 5k in the Championship, even for one fixture, would ring alarm bells and make people take notice.

But how can we truly test the effectiveness of such a boycott, when 8000 people can't be arsed taking part for even one game?

We can agree to disagree on whether boycotting or attending is the way forward, but do you understand how 8000 people putting their own personal interest in watching the game before the protest is counterproductive to the cause? If you think attending in large is the right thing to do, then fair enough, but to shun EVERY protest attempt/opportunity is signalling to Venky's and the FA that you're happy with what's happened/happening.

If we'd have had a sub 5k attendance for this one game, it would have looked brilliant and would no doubt have received mass publicity and then you and chaddy etc could have gone back to watching us each week as per your ST. You'd have helped the protests but stayed true to your cause for the most part. But we blew it because some people would rather watch the football and brush the issue of our owners under the carpet.

[Leonard Venkhater]

The reason for the higher than expected crowd was the cost PB nothing to do with right or wrong. A lot took kids to watch a affordable game

Blackpool fans said they thought Oyston had purchased a large number of tickets!

[Neal]

"...power and greed

And corruptible seed

Seem to be all that there is."

Is Bob Dylan a Rovers fan? If so, maybe he was having a "Senior" moment. That video yuk!

If we have a fancy dress protest i'll dress up as dylan holding a Venkys Out sign!

[RevidgeBlue]

I take your point in general but whilst I respect the right of the protesters to protest bear in mind I don't think it is the right thing to do so I don't view it as an opportunity missed. Nor do I believe the protesters should get too upset by perceived lack of numbers.

I still think if there had been 8k protesting it would be far more effective if they marched outside and protested inside as opposed to not going in.

EDIT: Sorry replying to mustard

[Stuart]

Spot on Jock. Would spark publicity around the world which yesterday's sadly did not.

Not true. There was even a piece in the New York Times about yesterday's protests.

What will make no headlines - for absolute certain - is no protests.

[RevidgeBlue]

Exhibit A, your honour:

That's merely Parson reiterating his (imo reasonable) view that you follow your team through good times and bad. He's not trying to claim he's a better fan than anyone else because of it.

Not true. There was even a piece in the New York Times about yesterday's protests.

What will make no headlines - for absolute certain - is no protests.

Agreed and I also think that if you are going to protest it has to be done legally so to speak otherwise you lose all credibility and public support.

[levi]

Mushroom.

don't label me with something you heard off your new best friends from yesterday,come up with something original

and where did i say i was against protests?

maybe i used the wrong name calling the 'boycotters' glory hunters i should have said they just want top flight football

and like i said i'm certain that's why most of them don't attend anymore

but to be honest i'm not aiming it at anybody on this forum because the sort of stay away fans i was talking about won't be interested in posting on here

[mustard]

I take your point in general but whilst I respect the right of the protesters to protest bear in mind I don't think it is the right thing to do so I don't view it as an opportunity missed. Nor do I believe the protesters should get too upset by perceived lack of numbers.

I still think if there had been 8k protesting it would be far more effective if they marched outside and protested inside as opposed to not going in.

EDIT: Sorry replying to mustard

Well if the 8k inside the ground had taken part in the march and continued with anti-Venky/anti-corruption protests once inside Ewood, it would have had a much greater effect. Point is, the majority of those inside the ground didn't take part in the protests and did not show any negativity or protest toward the actions of Venky's/FA et al.

They, by all accounts, sat there in silence and did nothing. That's counterproductive and does little to help any cause.

[Stuart]

The title of this thread is really going to encourage non-protesters to join the protests isn't it.

Another great contribution.

However, I'm not trying to encourage non-protesters to join the protests. They won't. Ever. They can't even answer very very simple questions, so I'm done with them.

Aside from that, as I've already explained this was the title of what was, in effect, personal blog, and poking fun at myself. But thanks for living up to the cliché - as described in my second reply to Rev.

[Neal]

don't label me with something you heard off your new best friends from yesterday,come up with something original

and where did i say i was against protests?

maybe i used the wrong name calling the 'boycotters' glory hunters i should have said they just want top flight football

and like i said i'm certain that's why most of them don't attend anymore

but to be honest i'm not aiming it at anybody on this forum because the sort of stay away fans i was talking about won't be interested in posting on here

Turnip? Do you prefer that?

[Oldgregg86]

Are there Fifth Columnists on the planning committee?

Because taking protests out of the ground was music to the ears of those who are anti-protest. Albeit very quiet music, obviously. Not only were there no Venkys Out chants, until the 86th minute (more later), there were no chants at all.

As a protester, it was a change for me to be on the other side of the divide and I made it my mission to try to report back my thoughts and findings.

From very early on - and throughout - Ewood Park was like a prawn sandwich convention. Polite clapping and shuffling of pie wrappers were the loudest things in the ground. Well at least when Coyle wasn't shrieking through his cupped hand. WTF is that noise he makes?? Obviously the clapping intensified a little when the goals went in. (Cracker from Bennett, btw).

Hollow words from those who say "protest before or after but not during games" this would be more believable if they joined those protests at those times. What they really mean is don't interrupt my enjoyment of the game and don't expect me to help.

On 18 minutes we were reminded that there was life on earth after all and a sporadic peppering of tennis balls - although it wasn't clear if these were Rovers or Blackpool orbs - appeared over the gates between the BBE and Riverside. "What will tennis balls achieve?", the kid next to me asked his dad. "Very little", was the almost apologetic reply (I'll not call it smug - although it was hard to tell through the cockney accent). It's lucky there were a couple of stewards on hand before Lowe raced over or those balls would not have been as easily cleared.

Protesters are made up of those fans who are also the voice and heart of the club - their absence leaves a very evident empty void. Those who will Only Attend are the head. Objective and passionless. Currently the heart and head are not joined up, not united in their purpose, we have hot and cold, separately blue. And white. This club needs both to be working together. It needs the head to help and be part of protest movement, to come up with ideas - if they really want Venkys Out of course (which I'm not convinced about) - and the heart needs to allow love (for Rovers) and hope to outweigh hate (for Venkys) and despair (for the future).

I was checking my phone at one point during the game, and the lack of crowd involvement was summed up when a bad challenge and a sending off only came to my attention when I looked up at the big screen and saw the red square next to Mellor's name. The atmosphere without those voices is non-existent. But to have them in the ground does need to be a positive influence on the game.

The head (ignorant of the pain the heart still feels) would close the Riverside and make the DE away fans only. It makes financial sense. The heart would demand that Venkys reverse what they have done. It would at the very least want to know that doing so is even in their thoughts. Maybe we have to shrink down, streamline and become more compact the increase our upward velocity and counter the loss of mass. But the heart knows in its, erm, heart that they don't - and won't. The head too should have learned from experience about the need to move forward without Venkys - even if moving forward means a different kind of club - but the head without the heart has no memory of the past and only looks at the here and now. The head sees only the colours of the shirts on the pitch, and recognises Blackburn Rovers; only the heart sees what those colours really represent, and right now it's a more faded blue and a more off-white that they don't quite recognise as Blackburn Rovers.

As for the game, any thoughts of yesterday's performance or result must be tempered by the fact that we are facing league Two opposition. And one directed by Gary Bowyer, who reminded me why he was not missed. The last 15 minutes Gaz seemed to forget which team he was manager of. Two banks of 4 and no pressing. "You're 2-0 down not up mate!". He summed up his time in charge of us with a nothing Blackpool performance (in a derby!), starting slowly/badly and then fading further when things went against him. I'm just glad he was in the opposition dugout or we could easily have had the opposite result - with the same sets of players.

5 minutes to go and in breezed the "Venkys Out" chants. Sadly not a breath of fresh air but a momentary, dare I say uncomfortable, jolt from the slumber of an easy win for a poor team, against an even poorer team, drawing un-excitingly to a close. With blue and white and orange scarves it was hard to disseminate who was who and it had me wondering "how did we get here?". But the reaction was at least some chant noise from the terraces and a weak effort at trying to support the team and drown out the noise - and failing.

It is easy to see how both fan groups would claim victory on the day. The "innies" in a complete bubble for 85 minutes could be forgiven for thinking that Venkys had already sold up and that the protests were a thing of the past. A quiet, homely, guilt-free Saturday afternoon with their friends and family. The "outies" no doubt emboldened by their new found temporary tangerine comrades (although if they remain joined in parallel protests against Venkys and Oystons respectively), enthused by the tomorrow's "chip paper" coverage from the agenda'd TV companies who didn't get rights to this competition. (Where were they the other week?). Talk is now about a joint protest with other fans but this now needs to be to highlight the real issue of unfit owners and to put pressure on the FA and Football League. I can't help feel though that some other clubs have a little less to complain about in that regard than Rovers - at least other owners made money on the back of chasing success for the club. Venkys had made (or not made, depending on your outlook) money chasing failure for Rovers and only taking whilst giving nothing back. We perhaps have more in common with Coventry that Blackpool.

A home win and a reasonable home crowd but devoid of any feelgood factor - no matter what the Black-Eyed Peas say.

Protests will not work because people won't protest. People won't protest because they feel the protests don't work.

Perhaps a detached protest movement between rival clubs uniting for a greater cause is the right move at the right time. It surely beats frustratedly banging on the one-way glass, with the mirror on the inside, against unfeeling, ignorant owners who aren't listening, and with no support or even thanks from 75% of the people that you represent. There is more chance of Rovers, Blackpool, Charlton, Coventry, Forest fans uniting than the two distinct sides of the Rovers fanbase. Ironically just as halved as our iconic shirts. Which is pretty sad.

The last word goes to the can of blue smoke on the final whistle that made no sound but emitted a fading blue plume against the backdrop of the Blackburn End. Ironically masking the protesters from view.

excellent post Stuart summed up pretty much how I felt after yesterday.

[Amo]

That's merely Parson reiterating his (imo reasonable) view that you follow your team through good times and bad. He's not trying to claim he's a better fan than anyone else because of it.

Sure, he was. That was more than implicit in the tone of his post. Don't be disingenuous.

[Oldgregg86]

don't label me with something you heard off your new best friends from yesterday,come up with something original

and where did i say i was against protests?

maybe i used the wrong name calling the 'boycotters' glory hunters i should have said they just want top flight football

and like i said i'm certain that's why most of them don't attend anymore

but to be honest i'm not aiming it at anybody on this forum because the sort of stay away fans i was talking about won't be interested in posting on here

no they just want a club that has owners who communicate and won't lie to there face, they want a club who sign players for the right reasons. They want money generated out of fans pockets put back into the club not into agents pockets and off shore bank accounts

[Oldgregg86]

I'm really struggling to understand and sorry for digging you out but fans like chaddy who clearly love rover's,how if your going to the game anyway and as you say want venkys out and love the club can't give a few minutes before kick off to protest. I see myself as being able to put myself in others shoes and see different points of view but this has absolutely no logic what so ever

[RevidgeBlue]

Another great contribution.

However, I'm not trying to encourage non-protesters to join the protests. They won't. Ever. They can't even answer very very simple questions, so I'm done with them.

Aside from that, as I've already explained this was the title of what was, in effect, personal blog, and poking fun at myself. But thanks for living up to the cliché - as described in my second reply to Rev.

You weren't poking fun at yourself you were bemoaning the fact that unlike yourself most fans in the ground fans were interested in watching the game as opposed to protesting and insinuating that there was no atmosphere because this is only created by the sort of "proper" fans who boycott!

[Oldgregg86]

You weren't poking fun at yourself you were bemoaning the fact that unlike yourself most fans in the ground fans were interested in watching the game as opposed to protesting and insinuating that there was no atmosphere because this is only created by the sort of "proper" fans who boycott!

yesterday I could here players on the wing at the Riverside end shouting to team mates and I was at the top of the jack walker stand. I was their as was Stuart because as rover's fans we are also interested in watching the game. Not one single song, chant noise of any note was made throughout the entirety of the game until the last few minutes when the protesters came in. Your right. You do watch the game but at no point did anyone get behind the lads in fact it was just mumblings of why such and such abody wasn't playing. Ewood is a deadly silent empty hollow place without the people outside in. Fact, as proved yesterday

[broadsword]

If no-one turned up at all, ever again , would they sell?

I honestly don't think that that would be enough to make them sell.

They're getting something out of it that isn't obvious. Or they're holding onto us out of stubborn pride or fear of exposure of illegal activities.

Either way, they've not sold us thus far despite all the protests, the losses, the aggravation.

It's either a case of nothing the fans have done so far bothers them or it's like Andy dufresne chipping away at the wall with a rock hammer.

Either the protests go on and they eventually sell but we won't know they're selling until just before - but then the sale might be unprompted by protests. Or the protests stop and they sell anyway because they've had their fun. Or they keep hold of us forever. I've just had the thought that the protests might be motivating them to keep hold of us our of sheer spite.

There's no way of knowing what they're thinking because they never communicate.

It's perfectly possible that they'll never sell. Or they might sell tomorrow. I do wonder however if you can place bets on Asia on English non league games.

The only possible ways to get force their hand would be either to disrupt every single game so we get expelled for failing to fulfil our fixtures. Or make embarrass them badly in front of suppliers and customers. Anything else raises consciousness and keeps us on radar, but I fear no more than that

[den]

I take your point in general but whilst I respect the right of the protesters to protest bear in mind I don't think it is the right thing to do so I don't view it as an opportunity missed. Nor do I believe the protesters should get too upset by perceived lack of numbers.

I still think if there had been 8k protesting it would be far more effective if they marched outside and protested inside as opposed to not going in.

EDIT: Sorry replying to mustard

The protesters were sat in the riverside yesterday Rev.

25000 average gate, down to 10 or 11 thousand - some of whom both protest and watch games, shows you that the fans willing to say no to Venkys far outweigh the ones prepared to do absolutely nothing.

[Stuart]

Blackpool fans said they thought Oyston had purchased a large number of tickets!

If he did then he's got a lot of mates to give them to...

There were about as many in the home end as the away...

The Riverside simply decamped to the JW. Wave to the future.

[perthblue02]

It's perfectly possible that they'll never sell. Or they might sell tomorrow. I do wonder however if you can place bets on Asia on English non league games.

Yes you can , just look up Whitehawk and International illegal betting syndicates. Funny enough we had a player on loan there, not implicated in match fixing though

Happened in non league games in Australia as well, clubs got good deals from agents to take players whose actions contributed to events, which large stakes where placed on in Asia

[RevidgeBlue]

yesterday I could here players on the wing at the Riverside end shouting to team mates and I was at the top of the jack walker stand. I was their as was Stuart because as rover's fans we are also interested in watching the game. Not one single song, chant noise of any note was made throughout the entirety of the game until the last few minutes when the protesters came in. Your right. You do watch the game but at no point did anyone get behind the lads in fact it was just mumblings of why such and such abody wasn't playing. Ewood is a deadly silent empty hollow place without the people outside in. Fact as proved yesterday

Can't disagree with any of the above. I think there were a number of factors contributing to the lack of atmosphere yesterday.

Firstly from an entertainment point of view it was a very poor spectacle between two bad sides, and from a partisan viewpoint the game was effectively over as a contest midway through the first half so no need to get too worked up.

Secondly there were very few fans in what would be considered the normal singing area the BBE and a lot of fans were probably relocated either voluntarily as often happens for Cup games or forced through the closure of the Riverside. So some would have been put off singing sat next to strangers they didn't know not of a like mind.

Bit worrying for the atmosphere next season if the long term plan is to close the Riverside permanently. There isn't much atmosphere now but on the evidence of yesterday it will kill it stone dead. It had the feel of a reserve game.