[Archived] A Scab In The Park

[Stuart]

Can't disagree with any of the above. I think there were a number of factors contributing to the lack of atmosphere yesterday.

Firstly from an entertainment point of view it was a very poor spectacle between two bad sides, and from a partisan viewpoint the game was effectively over as a contest midway through the first half so no need to get too worked up.

Secondly there were very few fans in what would be considered the normal singing area the BBE and a lot of fans were probably relocated either voluntarily as often happens for Cup games or forced through the closure of the Riverside. So some would have been put off singing sat next to strangers they didn't know not of a like mind.

Bit worrying for the atmosphere next season if the long term plan is to close the Riverside permanently. There isn't much atmosphere now but on the evidence of yesterday it will kill it stone dead. It had the feel of a reserve game.

It definitely did. But what are we going to do about it? Nothing. We'll just watch the decline then walk back up Bolton Road.

Between us the protesters and non-protesters not uniting at either end is the worst of both worlds. Not enough voices outside the ground to upset the board and not enough voices inside to back the team.

I have protested but not boycotted (18/75 aside) so as to try to be contribute to both sets of voices. It's tiring and thankless and frustrating but not as frustrating as hearing and reading people pontificate about how happy, no not happy, how 'right' they are doing nothing.

[DE.]

It definitely did. But what are we going to do about it? Nothing. We'll just watch the decline then walk back up Bolton Road.

Between us the protesters and non-protesters not uniting at either end is the worst of both worlds. Not enough voices outside the ground to upset the board and not enough voices inside to back the team.

I have protested but not boycotted (18/75 aside) so as to try to be contribute to both sets of voices. It's tiring and thankless and frustrating but not as frustrating as hearing and reading people pontificate about how happy, no not happy, how 'right' they are doing nothing.

I think it's the people who attend and absolutely refuse or belittle the protesters that seem to get a lot of backs up. I have no issue with anybody who attends - let's face it, the money received by Venky's from attending fans is nothing in comparison to the debt accrued - but I have to admit I'm baffled when people won't join in with protests like 1875. Even if you think it's futile, what's the harm in joining in to make a point? Maybe it won't make a difference, maybe nobody outside of Blackburn will care, but at least you're doing something to show that you aren't happy with the current state of affairs. Evidence suggests that protests do not cause issues on the pitch (in fact, we always seem to do better when protests occur), and with Coyle at the helm and an increasingly poor team it's going to take far more than "getting behind the lads" to save us from the inevitable drop to League One.

I'm not condemning those who choose to ignore the protests, I just don't understand the "I'm not doing it because it's pointless" argument. It may be pointless, but we won't know until we try. We can't say boycotts don't work when we have never actually had a proper boycott to test what the reaction would actually be. To boycott a match in a competition we realistically have no chance of winning seems a reasonable request, even if you then go right back to attending the next game. It doesn't mean you aren't supporting the club, if anything it's showing you care enough about the future and health of the club that you are willing to break with your normal habits to show you don't support the way the club is being run.

[Rover_Shaun]

That is the problem though Neal. Those of us still going can look ourselves in the mirror today and know that we are doing the right thing which is why we had 9,000 on yesterday, including 1,400 or more from Blackpool. Deep down we know that continuing to support the club is the right thing to do.

Plus the sleep you get during the game

[Athlete]

It definitely did. But what are we going to do about it? Nothing. We'll just watch the decline then walk back up Bolton Road.

Between us the protesters and non-protesters not uniting at either end is the worst of both worlds. Not enough voices outside the ground to upset the board and not enough voices inside to back the team.

I have protested but not boycotted (18/75 aside) so as to try to be contribute to both sets of voices. It's tiring and thankless and frustrating but not as frustrating as hearing and reading people pontificate about how happy, no not happy, how 'right' they are doing nothing.

I'm the same as you Stuart and tbh you've hit the nail on the head we're damned If we do damned if we don't. I don't have the answer the FA do but chose and choose to do nothing football is corrupt probably always as been to a certain extent but it's plainly obvious to a blind man that certain clubs are owned in England for non footballing reasons

Non of us can realistically do anything about rover's situation apart from try and highlight it to as many people as possible

I think no one knows venkys intentions but we can guess on their cohorts

As stupid as it sounds if administration could be somehow be forced it may be in the clubs best long term interest a la Pompey

But I have no idea how that could happen I'm at a loss but one thing I do know is the match day experience at Ewood is going worse and will get even worse before it gets better

[Ricky]

Another great contribution.

However, I'm not trying to encourage non-protesters to join the protests. They won't. Ever. They can't even answer very very simple questions, so I'm done with them.

Aside from that, as I've already explained this was the title of what was, in effect, personal blog, and poking fun at myself. But thanks for living up to the cliché - as described in my second reply to Rev.

You know absolutely nothing about me Stuart so don't judge. I made the decision to stay away from Ewood probably well before you and many others did. However I don't abuse others for their own choices. I'm not that much of a dick.

[Stuart]

You know absolutely nothing about me Stuart so don't judge. I made the decision to stay away from Ewood probably well before you and many others did. However I don't abuse others for their own choices. I'm not that much of a dick.

Where to start with the follow-up post that has almost every BRFCS cliché in it. (Including two folks liking it, just because it's a pop at me).

Abuse? That word is so misused on here that it's lost all meaning.

Judging you? How so? There is nothing at all in my post which judges YOU in any way.

And you're a better stayer-awayer than me? I've not stayed away so you probably have.

Plus the mother of all ironic, and comical, ways to end a post that contains such penis measuring!

You are a satirical genius, Ricky. Hats off.

[47er]

I respect that everyone has the right to do as they please but don't expect to come here and not be judged for it, I certainly don't by supporters like yourself. Step up to the hotpate or get out of the kitchen and stop whinging, you're a grown man... You should know better than to expect a church group mannered debate when it comes to football.

Very good point. We are not academics coldly discussing the obscure arguments in a philosophical treatise.

We are football fans looking at the end of our club founded well over a century ago. Memories of our childhoods, the relatives and friends who took us,now long since dead, our schooldays when we seemed to talk about nothing else.

This has to be a passionate debate because it's about our lives. Just bloody turning up to watch a game in relative silence has no role in it, it's so much bigger than that IN MY OPINION.

Man up, the club is close to extinction.

You know absolutely nothing about me Stuart so don't judge. I made the decision to stay away from Ewood probably well before you and many others did. However I don't abuse others for their own choices. I'm not that much of a dick.

You once banned me and to quote you "you simply cannot call someone on here a prick"

PS could have been SteB but rules are rules!

Ban yourself!

[AggyBlue]

As stupid as it sounds if administration could be somehow be forced it may be in the clubs best long term interest a la Pompey

But I have no idea how that could happen I'm at a loss but one thing I do know is the match day experience at Ewood is going worse and will get even worse before it gets better

This is something that I've been pondering. How to force the club into administration?

It appears the club are doing all they can to cut running costs. So is this the key? Is there a limit where once running costs exceed x amount the owners stop covering costs?

So how can we increase running costs? Persuading more fans to stop going isn't working.

Increase Security/Police costs. Talk of protests, pitch invasions, chickens on the pitch etc on social media would prompt the club to increase security/police presence, thus increasing cost.

Club fines. Certain unruly fan behaviour can lead to the club being fined.

I've only scratched the surface here but this needs to be discussed offline.

[gumboots]

The heavy handed policing yesterday must have cost aretry penny. Police horses don't come cheap

[blueboy3333]

It definitely did. But what are we going to do about it? Nothing. We'll just watch the decline then walk back up Bolton Road.

Between us the protesters and non-protesters not uniting at either end is the worst of both worlds. Not enough voices outside the ground to upset the board and not enough voices inside to back the team.

I have protested but not boycotted (18/75 aside) so as to try to be contribute to both sets of voices. It's tiring and thankless and frustrating but not as frustrating as hearing and reading people pontificate about how happy, no not happy, how 'right' they are doing nothing.

A man for all seasons. We are truly blessed. In reality, you just like going to the match and taking your family. Nowt wrong with that but knock it off with holier-than-thou crap.

[Mike E]

I've never seen anyone who still attends attempt to take the moral high ground. That's a disparaging label of "Superfan" which is put on those that still attend by those that don't.

I've been sneered at, laughed at, had remarks about my deafness thrown my way, and once been spat at (at my feet, but still). Around a dozen incidents, just this season.

Non-protesters definitely think they are better than me, and every one of them has an excuse.

Protests:

If protests occur during a game, 'it'll spoil the match'. But if they are planned outside of match-viewing time, 'sorry, I can only get to the game for a specific time' or something. Why not come to EWMC meetings? Why not suggest ideas? Why not contribute even in a little way, instead of criticising from the sidelines?

'Protests are pointless.' Well, explain that to the multitude of supporters trusts asking about engaging in joint-protests against poor ownership and the FA for the future.

'Protests don't get publicity.' We've had media attention (just this weekend) on at least 4 different Sky Sports shows, BBC, ITV, BT Sport, Channel 5, a variety of sports pundits on twitter, articles in several national newspapers of different political persuasion, and coverage in US, Swedish, and Turkish news outlets.

'Get behind the lads, ffs'. Yeah, that's worked with every active downgrade of the playing squad in every transfer window since Venky's rocked up, hasn't it? The protesting 400-1000 fans pre-match made more noise this weekend than any of the 9000+ inside Ewood. The loudest noise IN the ground was the reaction to each goal, and a few Coyle shrieks. Sitting in silence and waiting for things to happen on the pitch is NOT getting behind the lads.

Venkys:

The usual excuse is 'money doesn't matter to them anyway'. Funnily enough, they just closed a whole stand for a game. They are tightening budgets for the club left, right and centre, and Senior has seemingly been brought in to get players out for fees or cut playing costs. Most tellingly, Cheston actually SAID boycotting fans are damaging the club, which (him being a finance guy) i took as meaning it's costing the club money.

Another excuse is that 'no-one will buy us'. They have either turned down, or not acknowledged, at least 3 offers for Rovers that we know about (1 from Qataris, 2 separate enquiries from the Ians/Seneca -2012/13 and 2016), with another rumoured this year from the McNairs.

Such is our current plight, our BEST realistic scenario (imo) is that we put into administration, and are deducted 10 points for next season in L1, leaving us with a very solid chance of being in L2 in 2 seasons. If this happens, debt to Venky's could be written off as their choice, leaving around £20m debt to be paid off and a L1 club. AT BEST.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? When Venky's get rid of us we're in the brown stuff, whenever it is. Yet some seem HAPPY for that situation to get worse by the month, instead of cutting our losses now.

My view is this: Anyone who CAN contribute to the protest effort but WON'T baffles me. I understand that some CAN'T but there are always ways to help, just by suggesting an idea. Why won't you take a chance?

We 'all' want rid of Venky's, but only a few seem to want to prove it. Do you want a world where Steve Kean's '1%' is the truth? Because that is how it feels.

Edit- as per a couple of posts below from Rev and JBizz, I've added some detail, changed hasty wording, and removed some harsh indictments. I'm trying to ask for help from all fans on behalf of protesters, rather than antagonise as some of my original post may have.

[RevidgeBlue]

I've never even witnessed anyone say anything to a protestor let alone perpetrate the kind of abuse you claim to have suffered. In my experience if anyone says anything against Venky's people just chortle. If it has happened to you to have my sympathy as that kind of behaviour is completely unacceptable.

As for the rest of your post I'm not aware of 3 bids for the Club? Can only think of the alleged proposal by Battersby/Currie to hand over 51% of the Club which I would regard as completely unrealistic.

Also, it's not an absolute given that if Venkys leave their proportion of the debt will be written off is it? It's a possibility but not a certainty.

[JBiz]

I think it's disgusting that you'd face such things to be honest Mike, I know you aren't the only one either but that's humanity these days unfortunatley, too quick to say and do horrible things without thought for consequence.

On the rest of your post - it saddens to see you make the same judgement of anyone else who thinks slightly differently that's plaguing all discussion currently. You say "when Venkys get rid we are in the brown stuff", to me that raises more questions about the type of protests that should take place. When start cutting or closing stands, is the academy and training facilities next? Fair enough if that's a precursor to them leaving (a more realistic current plight scenario imo) but what if it's not? An ever regressing "asset" an ignored Indian portfolio? I've heard there "has" the be an end but that's 50 month long recurring nightmare.

There are many thousands of fans who will neither return to regularly support or protest. There shouldn't be an onus on people who believe the boycott is a solution, but if there is - convincing those to get involved is the priority surely? Not questioning people who still make some effort. With a bit of luck, 8,000 will be back for a flash cup tie at home... leafleting those returners potentially?

People are quick to stick the boot in the trust, war and others who might not quite agree or see the same solution, the idea to me should be to forge a plan to suit all eventuality- the FA cup final protest is the best idea I've read this weekend, amongst a smorgasbord of personal insult and willy waving.

It all comes back to the original point, always too quick to say things without thought for consequence. I have the most respect for those people who still try to engage in dialogue with the owners despite years of no replies - respectful and proper in the face of sheer ignorance and criminal negligence. I'm surprised nobody has called them the new BRFCC buzzword for "funghi's".

Bed time indeed.

[RevidgeBlue]

On the comment in the recent accounts that "the asset is increasing in value" a prominent local business person tried to explain to me recently that this is because the losses are being reduced. My reply to that was that that was only because the crown jewels had been flogged off but he wasn't particularly having it.

So if the powers that be at Ewood are thinking the same jbizzle you may be right in that the constant downsizing may not necessarily be indicative of an immediate end game.

[Neal]

I've been sneered at, laughed at, had remarks about my deafness thrown my way, and once been spat at (at my feet, but still). Around a dozen incidents, just this season.

Non-protesters definitely think they are better than me, and every one of them has an excuse.

Protests:

If protests occur during a game, 'it'll spoil the match'. But if they are planned outside of match-viewing time, 'sorry, I can only get to the game for a specific time' or something. Why not come to EWMC meetings? Why not suggest ideas? Why not contribute even in a little way, instead of criticising from the sidelines?

'Protests are pointless.' Well, explain that to the multitude of supporters trusts asking about engaging in joint-protests against poor ownership and the FA for the future.

'Protests don't get publicity.' We've had media attention (just this weekend) on at least 4 different Sky Sports shows, BBC, ITV, BT Sport, Channel 5, a variety of sports pundits on twitter, articles in several national newspapers of different political persuasion, and coverage in US, Swedish, and Turkish news outlets.

'Get behind the lads, ffs'. Yeah, that's worked with every active downgrade of the playing squad in every transfer window since Venky's rocked up, hasn't it? The protesting 400-1000 fans pre-match made more noise this weekend than any of the 9000+ inside Ewood. The loudest noise IN the ground was the reaction to each goal, and a few Coyle shrieks. Sitting in silence and waiting for things to happen on the pitch is NOT getting behind the lads.

Venkys:

The usual excuse is 'money doesn't matter to them anyway'. Funnily enough, they just closed a whole stand for a game. They are tightening budgets for the club left, right and centre, and Senior has seemingly been brought in to get players out for fees or cut playing costs. Most tellingly, Cheston actually SAID boycotting fans are damaging the club, which (him being a finance guy) i took as meaning it's costing the club money.

Another excuse is that 'no-one will buy us'. They have either turned down, or not acknowledged, at least 3 offers for Rovers that we know about (1 from Qataris, 2 separate enquiries from the Ians/Seneca -2012/13 and 2016), with another rumoured this year from the McNairs.

Such is our current plight, our BEST realistic scenario (imo) is that we put into administration, and are deducted 10 points for next season in L1, leaving us with a very solid chance of being in L2 in 2 seasons. If this happens, debt to Venky's could be written off as their choice, leaving around £20m debt to be paid off and a L1 club. AT BEST.

Why is that so hard for people to understand? When Venky's get rid of us we're in the brown stuff, whenever it is. Yet some seem HAPPY for that situation to get worse by the month, instead of cutting our losses now.

My view is this: Anyone who CAN contribute to the protest effort but WON'T baffles me. I understand that some CAN'T but there are always ways to help, just by suggesting an idea. Why won't you take a chance?

We 'all' want rid of Venky's, but only a few seem to want to prove it. Do you want a world where Steve Kean's '1%' is the truth? Because that is how it feels.

Edit- as per a couple of posts below from Rev and JBizz, I've added some detail, changed hasty wording, and removed some harsh indictments. I'm trying to ask for help from all fans on behalf of protesters, rather than antagonise as some of my original post may have.

Well put Mike.

[blue kiwi]

what a load of tosh just spent 30 mins reading this thread,im a protester im better than you,noyour not i attend sit on my hands because if i sing and cheer it might upset the person next to me,for christ sake lets unite and get rid of the scum called venkys,i do not accept the club would fold,the 100 million plus debt is theres not OURS.

[Stuart]

A man for all seasons. We are truly blessed. In reality, you just like going to the match and taking your family. Nowt wrong with that but knock it off with holier-than-thou crap.

Utterly stupid post.

On the comment in the recent accounts that "the asset is increasing in value" a prominent local business person tried to explain to me recently that this is because the losses are being reduced. My reply to that was that that was only because the crown jewels had been flogged off but he wasn't particularly having it.

So if the powers that be at Ewood are thinking the same jbizzle you may be right in that the constant downsizing may not necessarily be indicative of an immediate end game.

Value to whom? It only really increases in value if the debt also decreases.

[Iceman]

That is the problem though Neal. Those of us still going can look ourselves in the mirror today and know that we are doing the right thing which is why we had 9,000 on yesterday, including 1,400 or more from Blackpool. Deep down we know that continuing to support the club is the right thing to do.

[1864roverite]

I am behind everyone who voices angst to Venkys and co. I am 100% behind them being removed from the club. I have no issues with boycotters nay sayers or protestors.

For me, watching on, the protests are disorganised, too many cooks spoiling whatever broth they are trying to make, insufficient planning, no real agenda and god bless them all, but there is NO DIRECTION behind the protests.

I am going to suggest an alternative way to protest.

QPR at home, FILL THE GROUND AND VOICES CAN BE HEARD ! 25000 fans echoing VENKYS OUT reverberates far much more than 300 joined up fans ambling down to Ewood with some chucking tennis balls over the stand onto the pitch !

Just a thought on a cold damp and wet Monday morning.

[Mike E]

I am behind everyone who voices angst to Venkys and co. I am 100% behind them being removed from the club. I have no issues with boycotters nay sayers or protestors.

For me, watching on, the protests are disorganised, too many cooks spoiling whatever broth they are trying to make, insufficient planning, no real agenda and god bless them all, but there is NO DIRECTION behind the protests.

I am going to suggest an alternative way to protest.

QPR at home, FILL THE GROUND AND VOICES CAN BE HEARD ! 25000 fans echoing VENKYS OUT reverberates far much more than 300 joined up fans ambling down to Ewood with some chucking tennis balls over the stand onto the pitch !

Just a thought on a cold damp and wet Monday morning.

We tried that with the original 1875 protest vs Wolves. Attendance: 10,652.

It actually worked to a degree, mind, but you still have the issue of fan turning on fan.

'Oh shut up will you?'

'You should be glad they're here!'

'Get behind the lads, ffs!'

[Ricky]

Very good point. We are not academics coldly discussing the obscure arguments in a philosophical treatise.

We are football fans looking at the end of our club founded well over a century ago. Memories of our childhoods, the relatives and friends who took us,now long since dead, our schooldays when we seemed to talk about nothing else.

This has to be a passionate debate because it's about our lives. Just bloody turning up to watch a game in relative silence has no role in it, it's so much bigger than that IN MY OPINION.

Man up, the club is close to extinction.

You once banned me and to quote you "you simply cannot call someone on here a prick"

PS could have been SteB but rules are rules!

Ban yourself!

You're massively missing the point. As I've said I'm all for people protesting but don't think labelling people as scabs and calling out the likes of chaddy and Parson for criticism does the cause any good at all.

I'm pretty sure I never banned you 47er, but please enlighten me as to how I go about banning myself on a site that I haven't moderated for about 2-3 years??

[JBiz]

'Oh shut up will you?'

'You should be glad they're here!'

'Get behind the lads, ffs!'

Give over! If you think that's any worse than the constant use of "Venkys FC" or accusation that supporting is funding corruption, then you are mistaken.

[Mike E]

Give over! If you think that's any worse than the constant use of "Venkys FC" or accusation that supporting is funding corruption, then you are mistaken.

Oh, you want to include the variety of insults I referred to earlier? Personally I'd rather not give 'Are your hearing aids not working, @#/?? Sit down and stfu you stupid deaf @#/?' the time of day.

[JBiz]

Oh, you want to include the variety of insults I referred to earlier? Personally I'd rather not give 'Are your hearing aids not working, @#/?? Sit down and stfu you stupid deaf @#/?' the time of day.

As I said;

"I think it's disgusting that you'd face such things to be honest Mike, I know you aren't the only one either but that's humanity these days unfortunatley, too quick to say and do horrible things without thought for consequence."

It's wrong, but it's not a defense for asking if people can sleep at night for having an opinion!

[gumboots]

I am behind everyone who voices angst to Venkys and co. I am 100% behind them being removed from the club. I have no issues with boycotters nay sayers or protestors.

For me, watching on, the protests are disorganised, too many cooks spoiling whatever broth they are trying to make, insufficient planning, no real agenda and god bless them all, but there is NO DIRECTION behind the protests.

I am going to suggest an alternative way to protest.

QPR at home, FILL THE GROUND AND VOICES CAN BE HEARD ! 25000 fans echoing VENKYS OUT reverberates far much more than 300 joined up fans ambling down to Ewood with some chucking tennis balls over the stand onto the pitch !

Just a thought on a cold damp and wet Monday morning.

unfortunately filling the ground or even entering the ground is something many of us have vowed not to do. It puts money into their pockets and can be spun to India as the ground was full and singing your name. I appreciate the idea that a full anti Venky's chanting stadium might be a nice idea in theory but it's a theory I can't subscribe to.