[Archived] Fa Cup Next Round

[Athlete]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

As we owe them serious money to repay the loans I really don't see them putting the club in admin and giving up any chance of that being repaid.  I suspect they will be here for a few more years.

If you suspect correctly we'll be further down the league ladder even your goodself wouldn't have seen us so low down 

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Athlete said:

If you suspect correctly we'll be further down the league ladder even your goodself wouldn't have seen us so low down 

Gates will fall, sponsorship etc will fall, all revenue streams will fall but debt will still increase with no possibility of servicing it without owner input. The real owners are in this for reasons nothing to do with what happens on the pitch.

Maybe we have become another one of the much promoted charitable causes of our Pune saviours......

If the Vs stay then fans in my age group of 64++ will never see Rovers in the PL again and I doubt that we will witness a promotion from any league in our lifetimes. That is what the Pune vermin have done. Killed hope and expectation. Cunxx

[MCMC1875]

24 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

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[47er]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

As we owe them serious money to repay the loans I really don't see them putting the club in admin and giving up any chance of that being repaid.  I suspect they will be here for a few more years.

WE owe them nothing and from me they'll get nothing.

[Mike Graham]

Given the Manure game is on the telly and the tickets are priced at £30 I can see many Rovers fans choosing to spend less than £30 and watch it down the pub.

[Dunnfc]

2 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

As we owe them serious money to repay the loans I really don't see them putting the club in admin and giving up any chance of that being repaid.  I suspect they will be here for a few more years.

I think your assuming that they have put money in... No clear evidence to date of that certainly not in a equity form anyways.

The ever increasing share capital raises each year leads me to think that their cash input is minimal and it's been more of a case of leveraging year upon year against the bank using something in return to secure against. How many shares of stock a company can issue is established by the articles of incorporation. If anyone can confirm if VLL withheld any then they are probably releasing these through the debt year upon year, I will need to research this further admittedly to confirm for definite.

I would suggest that we've probably gone down the "Convertible Loan Note/Bond" route. A key source of financing for many businesses is debt. A business can raise funds through debt by entering into notes with lenders or issuing bonds. Notes are formalised agreements with individual lenders (SBOI or Venketesh Hatahcieries) that allows the borrowing company (Venkys London Ltd) to acquire short-term financing. Bonds are instruments companies use to acquire long-term financing. Both notes and bonds provide periodic interest payments and grant the holder priority in getting repaid in the event of anything like an administration/liquidation.

Business stock represents a portion of ownership in the business (VLL 99%). A share of common stock grants the holder a vote regarding certain business issues. A share also represents a claim on the business’s assets if it were to liquidate, the bigger the creditors claim the more % of vote they get. That claim is usually secondary to paying off outstanding debt however there are ways around this and largely depend on any personal guarantees given against the note.

So my theory is that the overdraft and bank loan in VLL could mean that player sales recently (40million +)  are covering that and bringing the monies owed against the notes and lender (SBOI) down leaving Venkys with the higher % of "debt" owed. This would then leave a balance against the original VLL loan notes/guarentees meaning that in the event of an administration whoever has a bigger % of debt owed (VLL) they would be 1st in line for any CVA vote, money distribution from the sale of assets etc. Remember a CVA needs 75% of a vote to leave admin so if the big creditor is VLL they will decide, additionally they can also choose there own administrator before someone issues a WUP/court action by self placing in administration or holding a large % of the debt.

That's a brief outline as I can talk so much detail on this subject and get carried away but it should give you a flavour!

[Waggy76]

Just now, preston blue said:

Given the Manure game is on the telly and the tickets are priced at £30 I can see many Rovers fans choosing to spend less than £30 and watch it down the pub.

Very true ....NAPM until Venkys leave !!!!

[Parsonblue]

Thanks for the above Dunnfc.  I must admit the financial technicalities become increasingly intricate and I am still no nearer in understanding why they remain.  The appointment of Senior - particularly when there really is nothing left to sell in terms of players - seems strange if their immediate aim was to cut and run.  Sadly, although I hope I'm wrong, I suspect in another couple of years we will still be discussing why they are still here.

[tomphil]

The money back is a moot point now really for Venkys as even they know they'll never see it again unless we have at least 1 season in the Prem and subsequent parachutes. Also no chance of recouping it from sales without speculating to accumulate year on year. 

Personally i think the accounts are one big cook up job and wouldn't be surprised if all along they loan some of the money upfront from somewhere with one hand but have found a way of taking it back hidden in the figures with the other. The constant banging on about book value and increasing squad value started being mentioned by Kean then went of through GB right up to now. Venkys lending it from somewhere maybe against player values then taking it back when they are sold or at least a % of it. Could have been the plan from the off with them acting like sponsors whilst their partners ran it. They are lending less now because they know the assets aren't there to pay them back.

Everything didn't go to plan of course and now it's a penny pinching watered down version of that. Despite whether anyone believes theories or they don't you have to admit the figures clearly do not add up and never have.

[arbitro]

15 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Thanks for the above Dunnfc.  I must admit the financial technicalities become increasingly intricate and I am still no nearer in understanding why they remain.  The appointment of Senior - particularly when there really is nothing left to sell in terms of players - seems strange if their immediate aim was to cut and run.  Sadly, although I hope I'm wrong, I suspect in another couple of years we will still be discussing why they are still here.

In all honesty PB I don't believe it can go on for two more years. Something will really have to give and with the distinct possibility of League One football next season (and potentially League Two the season after) surely the crowds will diminish even further to the 5000-7000 mark. Also there is the question of £6m which we get for being in the Championship which will dramatically reduce in League One. We have several players on decent money and a year or two left on their deals after this season. Even paying them up will cost a fortune. There are also running costs of Ewood and Brockhall with the Senior Training Centre and Academy. I know the Academy is close to your heart but surely it will be under intense scrutiny and pressure. The likes of Cheston, Pasha and now Senior will be on decent money and I would wager there will no financial penalties for them if we go down. There are lots of other things I haven't mentioned that cost money to run.

I really don't think there will be a Blackburn Rovers (1875) in a few years if they are still here.

[Dunnfc]

I can't go into too much detail on this MB, I've posted on how a newco in the event of exiting administration would be structured previously. That saying I am very confident in the fact that Blackburn Rovers will always be here in some form, my advice is for people now is to understand the concept of a newco and how it will go about acquiring the club/assets/football rights.

In the event of an administration it will be a direct fight with Venkys but as they will lose company control I have faith in the administrators being able to choose what will be best for the future of the football club (newco) and separate dealing with the company (VLL) as an administrator. Venkys will have the decision to vote for a CVA and win (v. Probable) or liquidate meaning a newco will no doubtly be formed, as the FA rules currently stipulate CVA exit only, Venkys exiting this way would mean the VLL Company owes 10p for every £1 previously owed and guess who would hold the majority of the old debt.... Venkys through VLL.

The newco football club will no doubt start the new season on minus 30 points if this happens after March.

That is why administration has to be triggered externally by other creditors. If this goes ahead in the future then I will happily on a volunteer basis help the club in anyway I can for the event and after commercially.

[Derby Blue]

Don't forget that the ticketing prices need to be agreed with the away club as well.

Maybe Rovers wanted £20 tickets and utd said no? maybe........maybe not

[Hasta]

Just now, Mansfield Blue said:

Don't forget that the ticketing prices need to be agreed with the away club as well.

Maybe Rovers wanted £20 tickets and utd said no? maybe........maybe not

More likely United wanted £20 and Rovers said No.

 

 

[donnermeat]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

Sadly, although I hope I'm wrong, I suspect in another couple of years we will still be discussing why they are still here.

I think Leonard Venkhater may have had it right with his cracking analogy from a couple of years ago vis a vis Fred West and such. 

Bloody heartbreaking isn't it?

[had.e.nuff]

1 hour ago, Mansfield Blue said:

Don't forget that the ticketing prices need to be agreed with the away club as well.

Maybe Rovers wanted £20 tickets and utd said no? maybe........maybe not

rules state

(ii) Competition Proper
Immediately after the draw is known, the Club playing at home shall decide on the prices of admission, subject to a minimum price of £10.00 for all spectators other than concessions.
The away Club’s spectators can only be charged more than the home Club’s spectators if mutually agreed by both Clubs.

[koi]

A part of me hopes that Utd absolutely stuff us, I mean a proper battering to show just what a shambles we've become.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, koi said:

A part of me hopes that Utd absolutely stuff us, I mean a proper battering to show just what a shambles we've become.

I've never wanted anything than other a Rovers  win ever in any game.  However If we don't get a battering in this game I'll be amazed. 

[Rover_Shaun]

Like every match since March 2012 under Venkys watch I'd rather watch every episode of Hollyoaks

[JHRover]

Is the Blackburn End Upper Tier closed for the United game?

No mention of it being closed when they announced tickets, but go on the website to buy tickets and the upper tier is in red and unavailable.

Seems they are setting the bar quite low if they are happy to shut off 3,000 seats in the home end to start with.

[Mattyblue]

Plus the front rows of Riverside block E04, almost all of W01 in the Jack Walker Lower and a load of W07 in the Jack Walker Upper aren't on sale- you know, just in case Rovers fans want to abseil in to the Darwen End for a scrap.

[Parsonblue]

Popped in to get my ticket this morning thinking it would be quiet and was surprised to find quite a queue of folk getting tickets for this match.

[JHRover]

So even if all available tickets on the website are sold we're probably looking at a maximum gate of 25,000.

How many other clubs would agree to reduce their capacity by nearly 6,000 for a game of this magnitude?

I can understand to some extent leaving the Blackburn Upper closed for now and only opening it once the other areas are getting full, but since when and why do large chunks of the home areas in the Riverside and Jack Walker have to be cordoned off?

If, and its a big if at this stage, the game is going to be a complete sell out, then the club is depriving itself of potentially thousands upon thousands in lost revenues.

Which other clubs would agree to cover up swathes of the home sections and deprive themselves of income on a lucrative FA Cup fixture? Its not as though we've never played United with a full house in the recent past.

 

[Mum63]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Plus the front rows of Riverside block E04, almost all of W01 in the Jack Walker Lower and a load of W07 in the Jack Walker Upper aren't on sale- you know, just in case Rovers fans want to abseil in to the Darwen End for a scrap.

I went for my daughters tickets this morning and was told E04 was all open that's where they have there season tickets seats.Everybody coming out of the woodwork for this match loads of people in front of me in queue were turned down because they had never been to a match before or had database history,people where queing at 8.30 this morning and been busy all day so far

[toooldforthis]

I am a typical average Rovers fan -  a season ticket holder for 40+ years - not a Venky fan - not a Protestor - not a Boycotter - not a Happy-Clapper.

I will not be at the United match simply because of the ticket price.

A quick straw poll of the 13 other season ticket holders I personally know shows that 11 of them will also not be attending for the same reason.

The club has been presented with a wonderful opportunity to reward the ever-dwindling number of regular attendees for their continued presence - and has blown a long-term marketing opportunity for a quick cash-injection.

Contrast this with Sutton United's Chairman insisting their game with Arsenal will not be moved to a larger stadium.

With the prospect of mixing it with the big boys on a regular basis now all but a pipe-dream, Rover's decision will have consequences for general attendances in future seasons, regardless of which division we are in.

Wavering season ticket holders need little excuse these days to push them over the edge of not renewing.

[Mattyblue]

E04 is open. Just looks as if the first 7 or so rows are closed off.