[Archived] Blackburn Hospital A and E

[chaddyrovers]

A&E corridor of chaos: In one hospital, a picture of shambles http://dailym.ai/2lnBtEO via http://dailym.ai/android

[Baz]

Sad scenes.

You know it's bad when even the Mail is running stories on the NHS crisis.

[Paul]

4 hours ago, Baz said:

Sad scenes.

You know it's bad when even the Mail is running stories on the NHS crisis.

Crossed my mind yesterday when this appeared on FB. I'm surprised this is the first mention of the Royal as it has been headline, first item, news with the BBC 10.00pm news Monday and Tuesday nights. 

I haven't been to the Royal for years and then only as an outpatient but I've had reason to be in Chorley, Preston and visit Wrightington in the last few years. These people are incredible. My son is soon to be under the top man in the UK at a world renowned hospital, Wrightington, for orthopaedic surgery. What did we have to do? Ultimately little more than ask if we could have a particular consultant - a frigging choice!!!

The one thing I cannot get my head round is why so many appear not to understand if we want magnificent institutions like the NHS they have to be paid for.

Much as I admire the NHS and every person working there the thought of getting old and needing hospital treatment is scary. Anyone who has spent a night, as I have, in a medical assessment unit will know. Listening to the staff trying to coax a frail elderly women with dementia to be discharged at 1.00an because they needed the bed. It says too much about our society.

These things should not be happening in our country. Our governments (note plural) need to stop these supposed efficiency drives and properly fund social care and the NHS. If the public understood what is really happening there would probably be riots.

We face massive problems with obesity, diabetes and other, mainly, self-inflicted conditions yet none seem to recognise those with such illness ultimately will have to pay for it through taxation or worse.

We must increase taxation, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

[cmb211087]

The problem with Blackburn, and probably a lot of other hospitals, is the bed blocking by the elderly, through no fault of their own.

I was taken into RB in November due to paralysation, getting there around 3pm. It wasn't until midnight that I was placed on the MAU and moved out of the corridors of A&E, as a bed had become free (as Paul has said above, somebody must have been coaxed to leave at a stupid hour). This was despite being seen by all the relevant people by 4pm.

Once I got on the ward, I found 3 elderly gentlemen, one who had been there for two weeks and was literally just waiting for the social care aspect to take him, but they had nothing for him, so he was taking up a valuable bed. The other two had been there close to that.

The government needs to stop closing down social care, and invest a lot more in it, and then the problems will start lowering immensely, in my opinion.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

A&E corridor of chaos: In one hospital, a picture of shambles http://dailym.ai/2lnBtEO via http://dailym.ai/android

Nobody can comment on this unfortunately. We've been instructed countless times on here that anything the Mail has to say is right-wing lies and cannot be used as a valid source of information in any situation ever. Expect the usual suspects to turn up rebuking you for it.

Unless, and I'd be as shocked as anyone if this were the case, this is an extremely rare inconsistency in their viewpoint and its actually ok to reference the Mail when it says something they support. I can't see that though, if there's one thing about the left, its that it's consistent.....

[Al]

The hospitals don't help themselves though. I've been in a few times over the last year or so and each time on discharge day I have known by 9am that I was going home but have occupied a bed until at least 7pm waiting for a doctor to sign the discharge form or pharmacy to have my medication ready. It takes two seconds to sign a form and the bed would be free for an extra day.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

No problem guys, did you not read we'll be getting another £350 million a week back to spend on the NHS when we leave the EU ? 

On the other hand you could always move to Surrey, they seem to be getting looked after all of a sudden.

[Paul]

13 hours ago, Steve Kean's Hypnotoad said:

Nobody can comment on this unfortunately. We've been instructed countless times on here that anything the Mail has to say is right-wing lies and cannot be used as a valid source of information in any situation ever. Expect the usual suspects to turn up rebuking you for it.

Unless, and I'd be as shocked as anyone if this were the case, this is an extremely rare inconsistency in their viewpoint and its actually ok to reference the Mail when it says something they support. I can't see that though, if there's one thing about the left, its that it's consistent.....

Childish

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I see the Tories have quietly put the  " £ 350 million a week to spend on the NHS " lie to sleep. Well it's served it's purpose now.

[jim mk2]

On 08/02/2017 at 9:53 AM, Steve Kean's Hypnotoad said:

Nobody can comment on this unfortunately. We've been instructed countless times on here that anything the Mail has to say is right-wing lies and cannot be used as a valid source of information in any situation ever. Expect the usual suspects to turn up rebuking you for it.

Unless, and I'd be as shocked as anyone if this were the case, this is an extremely rare inconsistency in their viewpoint and its actually ok to reference the Mail when it says something they support. I can't see that though, if there's one thing about the left, its that it's consistent.....

 

The above is pathetic.

The NHS is being deliberately starved of cash - and anyone who follows politics knows why.

As a country we underspend massively on healthcare, something like 5-6 per cent of GDP compared with comparable economies such as Germany and France which spend around 9 per cent. Our percentage went up to about 8 per cent in the Blair / Brown years, the last time the NHS was relatively properly funded.

The consultant at Blackburn Royal put his finger on the problem - the lack of social care / nursing homes to take the growing number of older people who are bed-blocking the hospitals. The problem is, the govt has shoved the social care problem on to local councils, who, guess what, are also being starved of cash all in the name of "austerity".

It's a national disgrace.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

They're just setting it up for more and more privatisation.

[Baz]

The other non-obvious thing in the article is that in order to try and meet admittance targets, the hospital has redefined corridors as wards, so they can be seen to not be failing targets.

So if your loved one is pushed out of A&E into a corridor, that could well be marked as a success in the government's figures. 

[joey_big_nose]

A lot of it is pure demographics. The Tories have reduced NHS spending from 8% to 7% of GDP in the last seven years - a big change. This is allied to a growing elderly population who is ever more costly to support.

Part of the way we keep costs down is by using immigrant labour - particularly skilled doctors and nurses - but as we all know that is being stopped. So the crisis will exacerbate by both having fewer cheaper workers, and halting new young immigrants moving to the UK who pay taxes to support the elderly population.

The only real way out is tax increases - which will again penalise young people to favour baby boomers which seems unbelievably harsh (if you consider the huge benefits boomers have seen in house pricing, cheap university, previously free public services etc which created a debt for the next generation to pay off) - and/or major technological advances which vastly reduce costs. There is some hope on the latter front.

That said the government should boost health care spending back up to 8% or even 9% of GDP. It provides jobs, it improves the health of people which then improves the economy. It seems stupid to starve it. 

More broadly we need to rebalance our budgets to invest more in health and education as these are the components that drive up future GDP and therefore standard of living and quality of life. That we spend 7% on Health and 5% on Education is utterly wrongheaded imo, instead in our society we spunk all our cash on fast fashion, booze and overpriced housing (because not enough houses are being built).

We will only fall further behind if we don't invest in the right areas.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

As I said in another thread I can only get " The Daily Torygraph " out here in rural Spain. I was reading a piece on the subject of NHS spending and the related one of the lack of investment in UK industry by their economics correspondent.

His solution - reduce taxes and regulation on business to encourage investment. Increase taxes on workers to pay for public  spending ! 

You've got to love the Tories, they never give up do they ?

 

 

[Baz]

8 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

A lot of it is pure demographics. The Tories have reduced NHS spending from 8% to 7% of GDP in the last seven years - a big change. This is allied to a growing elderly population who is ever more costly to support.

Part of the way we keep costs down is by using immigrant labour - particularly skilled doctors and nurses - but as we all know that is being stopped. So the crisis will exacerbate by both having fewer cheaper workers, and halting new young immigrants moving to the UK who pay taxes to support the elderly population.

The only real way out is tax increases - which will again penalise young people to favour baby boomers which seems unbelievably harsh (if you consider the huge benefits boomers have seen in house pricing, cheap university, previously free public services etc which created a debt for the next generation to pay off) - and/or major technological advances which vastly reduce costs. There is some hope on the latter front.

That said the government should boost health care spending back up to 8% or even 9% of GDP. It provides jobs, it improves the health of people which then improves the economy. It seems stupid to starve it. 

More broadly we need to rebalance our budgets to invest more in health and education as these are the components that drive up future GDP and therefore standard of living and quality of life. That we spend 7% on Health and 5% on Education is utterly wrongheaded imo, instead in our society we spunk all our cash on fast fashion, booze and overpriced housing (because not enough houses are being built).

We will only fall further behind if we don't invest in the right areas.

 

Spot on.

[yoda]

The NHS is for the benefit of everyone when they need it, it should not be subject to the whim of political parties. It should be specifically funded in it's own right which is determined by an independent body.

[Baz]

Just now, yoda said:

The NHS is for the benefit of everyone when they need it, it should not be subject to the whim of political parties. It should be specifically funded in it's own right which is determined by an independent body.

And if the independent commission asks for more money than the governmentis willing to give it?

[yoda]

Just now, Baz said:

And if the independent commission asks for more money than the governmentis willing to give it?

Then the government will have to get it's act together and find it, that is the idea of an independent body that is legislated to control the issue.