[Archived] Raise a red card to the Raos

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Neal said:

I'll do my best for any protest I can make, like even handing out red cards to fans who I knew deep down don't have the guts to stand up and be counted but it felt like the right thing to do.

What has it got to do with guts? It worries me when people start speaking in absolutes, particularly against those who you're supposed to be united with. Can't you accept that people react differently? Perhaps people just don't think that protesting makes a difference. Perhaps people think that the protest coordination is non-existent and sporadic. Perhaps it's just not in some people's nature to get involved with protests, or they're just too timid. Or perhaps they just don't like the absolute nature of "protest or you're spineless". Do you think calling fellow fans "gutless" is going to get them on-board with you?

No matter how strongly you feel about how to go about it, speak like that is one sure way to alienate people from your cause. Try and welcome them and you might get more response, rather than treating them as though they are the cause of our current situation. Aim your anger towards Venkys and not the fans of Blackburn Rovers, particularly those that attend.

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

That will be for each person to decide.

Any protesting I do is for 'the club', the institution that has been here since 1875.  

I look at my family, who have been fanatics for generations and what it means to us- the fact some folk don't want to help, some even think protesters are 'part of the problem', doesn't bother me one bit. Me and my family, my friends, my memories deserve a football club and I won't walk away from a fight just to spite those that don't want to help/don't agree with protesting.

They might not 'deserve' a football club, but I damn well do.

Some good replies, and plenty of passion still left - which is great. It was a genuine question.

The vast vast majority are not moved to get involved. It's not like asking them to stand as a Rovers Trust committee member - and all the genuine commitment that entails - it's a public display of numbers of people who genuinely have had enough and want them out - at whatever the cost (of rebuilding).

I'm with you completely on the idea of even a small group standing up for future generations being the right thing to do. If we cannot count on their support we have to count on the non-protesters keeping their counsel and stepping back from dissenting against those who do care.

Its no good continuing with protests though if people are prepared to undermine them. Granted my view of undermining them is marginalising protesters and making them appear a small minority. Despite them 'saying' the opposite.

There are two ways that can go then: I can either accept that I will always be part of a couple of hundred fans who wish to take action (against the tide of 'you won't achieve anything') or we can continue to try to think of ways to get a message that the majority can buy into. As long as the football matches are tight affairs, that will be difficult - despite our slide out of the Championship trap door - but perhaps it is still a fight worth fighting.

No majority message, no (stupidly rich) white knight and no magic bullet means it is going to be as difficult as possible. Let's hope the latter arrives soon, maybe the unlikely and unlikeable Jim White, because the former look even less likely - despite it being the only one in the fans control.

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Phil T said:

What has it got to do with guts? It worries me when people start speaking in absolutes, particularly against those who you're supposed to be united with. Can't you accept that people react differently? Perhaps people just don't think that protesting makes a difference. Perhaps people think that the protest coordination is non-existent and sporadic. Perhaps it's just not in some people's nature to get involved with protests, or they're just too timid. Or perhaps they just don't like the absolute nature of "protest or you're spineless". Do you think calling fellow fans "gutless" is going to get them on-board with you?

No matter how strongly you feel about how to go about it, speak like that is one sure way to alienate people from your cause. Try and welcome them and you might get more response, rather than treating them as though they are the cause of our current situation. Aim your anger towards Venkys and not the fans of Blackburn Rovers, particularly those that attend.

How can anyone be "united" with people they have to "accept will react differently"? This is an oxymoron and a big part of the issue. There is currently no unity. This blaming of the protesters for "alienating people from the cause" is also a strawman argument.

The points being made earlier today - very well put too - were: forget unity, do what is right even if it's only a minority. It's a tricky one which I'm not sure I agree with (as a means to an end).

It would be good to find something accessible to all.

Potential stumbling blocks to overcome include:

Time

Money

Physical fitness (e.g. to march)

Social media access

Communication of ideas

Meeting times/dates/locations

Apathy

Lack of obvious leader or figurehead (e.g. WAR / Simon Garner)

Lack of local media support

Fifth columnists online (both club employees and Bumley fans)

Is there an idea that hasn't been thought of yet that would engage the current non-protester? I'm afraid it's entirely likely that such an idea will need to be put forward by a current non-protester.

For instance, why is Coyle unsackable despite the club's position, form, performance? That might be a good question to focus on. The answer (in very public form) could be the catalyst for the key ingredient in any protest: anger.

[michaelscarn]

Just now, Stuart said:

How can anyone be "united" with people they have to "accept will react differently"? This is an oxymoron and a big part of the issue. There is currently no unity. This blaming of the protesters for "alienating people from the cause" is also a strawman argument.

The points being made earlier today - very well put too - were: forget unity, do what is right even if it's only a minority. It's a tricky one which I'm not sure I agree with (as a means to an end).

It would be good to find something accessible to all.

Potential stumbling blocks to overcome include:

Time

Money

Physical fitness (e.g. to march)

Social media access

Communication of ideas

Meeting times/dates/locations

Apathy

Lack of obvious leader or figurehead (e.g. WAR / Simon Garner)

Lack of local media support

Fifth columnists online (both club employees and Bumley fans)

Is there an idea that hasn't been thought of yet that would engage the current non-protester? I'm afraid it's entirely likely that such an idea will need to be put forward by a current non-protester.

For instance, why is Coyle unsackable despite the club's position, form, performance? That might be a good question to focus on. The answer (in very public form) could be the catalyst for the key ingredient in any protest: anger.

Great post . Quite frankly though holding a bit of red card aloft was too much to even try for he good of the club for some who attended yesterday 

[Oldgregg86]

Beat me to it michael. I like stuart have thought and over thought ways of uniting the fan base . I truly believed the only way to defeat the evils bestowed upon us was a united front. Finding ways to incorporate all of the above in stuarts post to make one big protest as a whole fanbase. Im tired of all the excuses, lack of heart, defeatist attitudes, arguing and division amungst fellow supporters. Its pretty clear if people wont hold a piece of red card provided for them for 60 seconds then trying to come up with other ideas to include what was unfortunately the majority of fans is utterly a pointless excercise. Mattyblue is right. It is time to focus on the core of people who will commit time and effort to action. Trying to incorporate the other fans is , if anything, driving the wedge further between the two groups. Ive been in limbo for a while about what is the best thing to do and trying to keep the fans together in the end it boils down to do what you can, set a good example and hope more people start to see sense by themselves with the information available to them and hopefully the more media attention we have been getting.....thanks to the protesters. 

[1864roverite]

The real issue is that the whole fan base is divided.

Despite all of the good intentions, despite the good work of a whole host of people there are still some differing agendas that do not carry the same message or off at a kilter than the others.

 

There has been a move to get everyone singing together it hasn't worked for many reasons. Yesterday we saw what this team is capable of and I ask myself how the bloody hell are we where we are in the league? It is clear the team have it, it is clear that somewhere in there Coyle might have a bit of a clue but it is also very clear that the issues with the fans are divisive, and that fans will only be as one once the divisions are sorted out.

I despise venkys, I despise Coyle Cheston and all that have gone before in this 6yr farcical running of my beloved club but I admire totally everyone who has played a part in the protests

[Mike E]

Hopefully the changes at the top of the Rovers Trust in March will final achieve the United front we wanted after Blakeys.

[Stuart]

27 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

The real issue is that the whole fan base is divided.

Despite all of the good intentions, despite the good work of a whole host of people there are still some differing agendas that do not carry the same message or off at a kilter than the others.

 

There has been a move to get everyone singing together it hasn't worked for many reasons. Yesterday we saw what this team is capable of and I ask myself how the bloody hell are we where we are in the league? It is clear the team have it, it is clear that somewhere in there Coyle might have a bit of a clue but it is also very clear that the issues with the fans are divisive, and that fans will only be as one once the divisions are sorted out.

I despise venkys, I despise Coyle Cheston and all that have gone before in this 6yr farcical running of my beloved club but I admire totally everyone who has played a part in the protests

Genuine question: why do you think fans are divided? Surely we all agree that Venkys are killing the club? So why can't we all say it out loud. Let along all march together, for example.

I thought Rev was on to something earlier when he appeared to suggest that he wants Venkys to stay because the alternative (in his mind) is no club.

However, he has since said that's not the case.

Stumped.

[blue kiwi]

its up to parson meadows chaddy rev to explian what they want for the rovers,if they want rid of the venkys how will we achieve it,im just resigned to the fact they will go in time,be it next week,next yearmthe next decade,or when the world implodes.

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, blue kiwi said:

its up to parson meadows chaddy rev to explian what they want for the rovers,if they want rid of the venkys how will we achieve it,im just resigned to the fact they will go in time,be it next week,next yearmthe next decade,or when the world implodes.

You are right.

Yet we continue to wait.

A bit like waiting for your reply as to your contribution. Because you aren't a hypocrite so will have no problem answering.

[Neal]

6 hours ago, Phil T said:

What has it got to do with guts? It worries me when people start speaking in absolutes, particularly against those who you're supposed to be united with. Can't you accept that people react differently? Perhaps people just don't think that protesting makes a difference. Perhaps people think that the protest coordination is non-existent and sporadic. Perhaps it's just not in some people's nature to get involved with protests, or they're just too timid. Or perhaps they just don't like the absolute nature of "protest or you're spineless". Do you think calling fellow fans "gutless" is going to get them on-board with you?

No matter how strongly you feel about how to go about it, speak like that is one sure way to alienate people from your cause. Try and welcome them and you might get more response, rather than treating them as though they are the cause of our current situation. Aim your anger towards Venkys and not the fans of Blackburn Rovers, particularly those that attend.

 

Very presumptuous post that and thanks for your advice but frankly... You can shove it. Every fan who met me yesterday will know how polite, welcoming and approachable I was. Still doesn't change the fact that I was right though, 100's perhaps 1000's took red cards from me, how many used them? 

It has everything to do with guts...

Seeing as how I got off my arse and did something for this protest, i'd say that makes me far more knowledgeable on this matter than yourself.

People who sit by and judge the efforts of others who are trying to do something win back their football club... 

Meet your modern day Rovers fan. 

Your post got 4 likes and I recon I'd know each one of them. Turnips.

[blue kiwi]

40 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You are right.

Yet we continue to wait.

A bit like waiting for your reply as to your contribution. Because you aren't a hypocrite so will have no problem answering.

i replied when you 1st asked stuart,but i have done jack @#/? becuse i have the foresight that there is no cause,btw i have been to pune at my own expense not the owners.

[Stuart]

Just now, blue kiwi said:

i replied when you 1st asked stuart,but i have done jack @#/? becuse i have the foresight that there is no cause,btw i have been to pune at my own expense not the owners.

That post makes no sense.

[AndyNeil]

Just now, Neal said:

 

Very presumptuous post that and thanks for your advice but frankly... You can shove it. Every fan who met me yesterday will know how polite, welcoming and approachable I was. Still doesn't change the fact that I was right though, 100's perhaps 1000's took red cards from me, how many used them? 

It has everything to do with guts...

Seeing as how I got off my arse and did something for this protest, i'd say that makes me far more knowledgeable on this matter than yourself.

People who sit by and judge the efforts of others who are trying to do something win back their football club... 

Meet your modern day Rovers fan. 

Your post got 4 likes and I recon I'd know each one of them. Turnips.

somebody was asking earlier why the fan base wasn't united? The above post serves to illustrate the reason perfectly... until people such as Neal accept that there will be people with different views and opinions, the cause/process will likely never progress as it could/should.

[Neal]

Just now, AndyNeil said:

somebody was asking earlier why the fan base wasn't united? The above post serves to illustrate the reason perfectly... until people such as Neal accept that there will be people with different views and opinions, the cause/process will likely never progress as it could/should.

 

I do accept Andy, doesn't mean i have to agree with them. Yesterday I behaved in a polite, respectful and approachable manner which is no more than anyone who chooses to protest or not to protest can ask for when being presented with the option to protest. 

 

That aside, I'm still entitled to my opinion and you to yours. There have been people involved with protests who aren't my cup of tea but fighting for my club is bigger than such trivial issues. You either agree to a protest because you want to, or decide you don't want to because you don't like me. I'm not here to be diplomatic, hold people's hands or pretend to be their friend... I protest because those @#/?s are destroying my football club. I'm a passionate Blackburn Rovers fan with opinions just like any other.

 

If there were protests in future that you were planning or leading, i'd still attend them even though I don't like you. I've seen your point being made for 6 years with people still hiding behind it... Be men. 

 

 

[AndyNeil]

Just now, Neal said:

 

I don't have to Andy. Yesterday I behaved in a polite, respectful and approachable manner which is no more than anyone who chooses to protest or not to protest can ask for when being presented with the option to protest. 

 

That aside, I'm still entitled to my opinion and you to yours. There have been people involved with protests who aren't my cup of tea but fighting for my club is bigger than such trivial issues. You either agree to a protest because you want to, or decide you don't want to because you don't like me. I'm not here to be diplomatic, hold people's hands or pretend to be their friend... I protest because those @#/?s are destroying my football club. I'm a passionate Blackburn Rovers fan with opinions just like any other.

 

If there were protests in future that you were planning or leading, i'd still attend them even though I don't like you. I've seen your point being made for 6 years with people still hiding behind it... Be men. 

 

 

maybe if you were polite, respectful and approachable on here you might make a bit more headway with people?

why would someone not protest because they don't like you?  You don't like me - you don't even know me.

you think I'm not a man?  would love to know how you come to that conclusion...

[blue kiwi]

neal take a minute to cool  down and read what you have just wriiten its the ramblings of a madman

[yoda]

Just now, Stuart said:

That post makes no sense.

not only that but a dig at the ones that went to Pune

[blue kiwi]

To right its a dig at those who went to pune.Took there 12pieces of silver.

[Neal]

3 hours ago, AndyNeil said:

maybe if you were polite, respectful and approachable on here you might make a bit more headway with people?

why would someone not protest because they don't like you?  You don't like me - you don't even know me.

you think I'm not a man?  would love to know how you come to that conclusion...

What are you failing to understand Andy? I'm not here to be liked, I couldn't care less, I'm not a bloody politician and i don't need to behave like one either. The situation at Rovers WILL get worse under Venkys, people WILL get more angry and i dread to think how some folk on here are going to handle it if they can't handle one or two strong views occasionally. Many moons ago I was a lot more diplomatic on here but after 6 years of watching the club being dismantled and the majority of fans doing the equivalent of jack @#/? my diplomacy has almost gone so don't expect me to be changing any time soon.

 

I told those hiding behind the same excuses they've been making for 6 years to be men, it was a general remark but i suppose it would apply to you also if you're making those same excuses. 

[Neal]

3 hours ago, blue kiwi said:

neal take a minute to cool  down and read what you have just wriiten its the ramblings of a madman

 

No thanks pal. I shan't be taking the advice of someone not getting their hands dirty, sat behind a keyboard 1000's of miles away.  

[blue kiwi]

ive done more than you ,have you been to pune?the white coats will be coming mate.

[dave birch]

16 minutes ago, blue kiwi said:

ive done more than you ,have you been to pune?the white coats will be coming mate.

Bit of willy waving going on here.

It's easy to say you've been to Pune, but what happened? What did you do?

All the action is at Ewood.

I'd leave Neal alone, he's passionate and wants to do the right thing by the Rovers.

Just to add, I've been on Ewood more times, many more times than the charlatans from India.

[blue kiwi]

can,t tell you that the roas made me sign a disclousure and a big scotch guy broke my phone,other than that nothing much apart from out tuktuk getting run of the road.

[dave birch]

Oh. now I understand.

 

 

Nothing.