[Archived] Did Graeme Souness get enough credit?

[tomphil]

Just now, bellamy11 said:

I used to have the ITV coverage of the Worthington Cup final on VHS and must have watched it dozens of times at uni.

 

From pre-game (paraphrasing):

"You've won 26 trophies as a player and a manager, now you find yourself in a relegation battle and in the final of the cup. Where would this rank?"

"You've just said something that makes me believe we'll stay up."

"What?"

"I've won 26 things".

 

The guy was a winner. He knew what it took to get us up (a difficult task even if you have quality players) and to get through cup matches. His team was tough to watch by the end, for some reason getting dismantled by Leicester sticks out, but he signed some of my favourite ever players and my memories of his team are some of the best I've had as a Rovers fan - and given how things are looking at the moment will probably be the pinnacle for a long, long time now. Big fan of GS.

There was a Leicester away game was something of a benchmark in his reign i seem to remember.  Gresko turning his back on an incoming ball for some reason and Cole & Yorke missing a bagful of easy chances. Maybe he'd lost some of them by then and a few wanted him out ?

Rumours of him quitting afterwards but Flitcroft and Williams begging him to change his mind.

[K-Hod]

As others have rightly said, brilliant at first and leaves me with some of my best memories of Rovers, but by the end it all went belly up and he'd fallen out with everyone.

Putting himself in the shop window for other clubs also left a sour taste in the mouth, but the Worthington Cup win and some of the players he bought still leaves him in credit with me.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, tomphil said:

A character he was but if you rated him as a player you've got serious judgement problems

 He was dire in his position, way out his depth in the Prem. 

Ya he was finished by injuries by the time he got here. Had a good run with rangers though,back when them and Celtic had decent teams. 

[tomphil]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya he was finished by injuries by the time he got here. Had a good run with rangers though,back when them and Celtic had decent teams. 

He was good at the other end from set pieces but he was as slow and rigid as Darren Peacock was in the center of defense, shame. Could never doubt his commitment though. Odd signing by Souey (1 of a few) who was on record previously as saying he wasn't a fan of big Ammo at Rangers.

Still, Graham and David Murray were close pals eh 

[DE.]

Towards the end I remember Souey playing Dominic Matteo on left wing. Not sure what he was thinking during his last few months at the club, he really lost his way and it's fortunate for him and for us that Newcastle poached him. Had Souness relegated us I think his Rovers tenure would be seen in a much more neutral light. 

[DE.]

For those interested, this is the Souness to Newcastle thread from 2004:

 

[47er]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

As others have rightly said, brilliant at first and leaves me with some of my best memories of Rovers, but by the end it all went belly up and he'd fallen out with everyone.

Putting himself in the shop window for other clubs also left a sour taste in the mouth, but the Worthington Cup win and some of the players he bought still leaves him in credit with me.

Good to hear from you again. Where've you been?

Just read that 2004 Souness thread, very sad to see all those familiar posters of yesteryear.

Hughesy, Jan,Brownie etc. A more vibrant site then, as was the Club.

[oldjamfan1]

Souness gave us some marvellous memories, make no mistake, but in terms of modern day managers I rate Mark Hughes more highly for what he did at Ewood, to be honest.

[AAK]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I thought he did a great job in the early days. Great team and some great football. It's a shame but it all went badly wrong at the end. He'd have been fired if he hadn't have left because he was taking us down.

As a player he was the real deal, a terrific competitor who could play. I remember him taking on Roma's Brazilian midfield trio in a European Cup Final and playing them to a standstill.

 

He only left in September, bit harsh to say he was taking us down, he had just signed Pedersen before he left, another good buy.

[Gav]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

For those interested, this is the Souness to Newcastle thread from 2004:

 

As 47er says, plenty of very good posters that are sadly missed today on that thread, a far cry from the duplicate accounts and general mischief making we witness on here these days but we digress.

Think Souness got a decent write up for the most part, his side at the time was dire, he lost the plot towards the end, but will be remembered fondly i'm sure.

[Gav]

24 minutes ago, AAK said:

 

He only left in September, bit harsh to say he was taking us down, he had just signed Pedersen before he left, another good buy.

I know what you mean AAK, but it did look worrying, the town certainly breathed a sign of relief once we came to terms with his departure.

But he could well have pulled things round I'm sure.

[joey_big_nose]

Who was the better manager our of Hughes and Souness? Tough one that. Id say Hughes myself, but he never won a trophy.

Hughes didn't waste much cash, and brought some fabulous players in for nothing. Souness was a lot more scattergun, some really poor signings. Did get probably two of the best signings ever by Rovers though in Tugay and Friedel.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, AAK said:

 

He only left in September, bit harsh to say he was taking us down, he had just signed Pedersen before he left, another good buy.

When you've seen teams in free fall before you learn to recognise the signs. He'd lost the plot completely by the time he left.

[Gav]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Who was the better manager our of Hughes and Souness? Tough one that. Id say Hughes myself, but he never won a trophy.

Hughes didn't waste much cash, and brought some fabulous players in for nothing. Souness was a lot more scattergun, some really poor signings. Did get probably two of the best signings ever by Rovers though in Tugay and Friedel.

Better manager was Hughes for me, loved watching Bellamy play, only game i can recall us surrendering in was his last away at Brum.

We were lucky to have had them both managing the club joey.

[blueboy3333]

21 minutes ago, Gav said:

As 47er says, plenty of very good posters that are sadly missed today on that thread, a far cry from the duplicate accounts and general mischief making we witness on here these days but we digress.

Think Souness got a decent write up for the most part, his side at the time was dire, he lost the plot towards the end, but will be remembered fondly i'm sure.

I thought this forum had to be shut down on occasion during the Souness era due to all the squabbling?

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Who was the better manager our of Hughes and Souness? Tough one that. Id say Hughes myself, but he never won a trophy.

Hughes didn't waste much cash, and brought some fabulous players in for nothing. Souness was a lot more scattergun, some really poor signings. Did get probably two of the best signings ever by Rovers though in Tugay and Friedel.

Didnt we get the two FA cup semis under Hughes? I remember a really tight one against Chelsea,I think Ballack scored the winner for them late on to make it 2-1. We had a really nice team

[DE.]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I thought this forum had to be shut down on occasion during the Souness era due to all the squabbling?

I was mostly lurking during that period, but yeah, it got pretty nasty towards the end. I'd say it was worse during some of Allardyce's lean spells though, and it goes without saying that during Kean's early days his supporters and opposition were at each other's throats. Eventually there was nothing but opposition, save for the odd WUM, but I wouldn't say the MB fully turned on Kean until November/December 2011.

[Mike E]

Just now, DE. said:

I was mostly lurking during that period, but yeah, it got pretty nasty towards the end. I'd say it was worse during some of Allardyce's lean spells though, and it goes without saying that during Kean's early days his supporters and opposition were at each other's throats. Eventually there was nothing but opposition, save for the odd WUM, but I wouldn't say the MB fully turned on Kean until November/December 2011.

Think it was that Bolton game where the LET joined in with 'Time to go, Steve'.

Re: Souey, as immense as his achievements were, he was followed by a very special occurrence where a former player becomes your manager, saves you from relegation, pays peanuts for a team chocked full with captains and takes you around Europe.

Souness was great but the Hughes era was special. Magical, even.

[koi]

14 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Discuss.

I don't think he did. Looking at us now languishing in the championship. What would we do for another Graeme?

Our recent history seems to bypass the fact he got us promoted and won a trophy.

Why isn't he spoken about in legendary terms? 

Souness did well no doubt but you can't compare the championship Rovers he took over to the bum cheese we are today, would he do what he did then, now? not a chance.  Jack was still around, well for a while, we were a very big fish in the pond, we had some great young talent and the financial clout to pay top PL wages to the likes of Friedel, Berg and Hughes.  Quite frankly not getting promoted would have been a failure.  The league cup was great and showed we were back, I really enjoyed the season we finished 6th.  He totally lost the plot after that!  

I think it's important to remember that Jack took a gamble on Souness; he was seen as a failure after Rangers with every job ending with Souness and the owner falling out.  I've personally never met Souness other than in casual passing but I know people who do know him though football or social occasions and the unanimous verdict is he's a complete and utter billy banker and to intentionally try to injure one of your own players is just a disgrace, no matter how that player treated Jordan.

Hughes is my second favourite after Kenny, enjoyed his reign from start to finish.  Can't forget Don either, he did well for a period with diddly squat.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Souness' best buys were the relative cheap signings or frees. Tugay, Freidal, Berkovic and Berg. When money was available that's when his transfer activity was questionable with only Cole proving a good buy.

[DE.]

Ferguson has to go down as one of our worst bigger buys during that period. He was absolute tosh and rarely put in maximum effort. A shame as I remember there being a lot of excitement over his arrival.

[AllRoverAsia]

10 minutes ago, DE. said:

Ferguson has to go down as one of our worst bigger buys during that period. He was absolute tosh and rarely put in maximum effort. A shame as I remember there being a lot of excitement over his arrival.

I have only just seen that Ferguson was awarded a MBE in 2006.

Does anyone know what for? 

Edit: ok found it ignore question. It was for Services to Football. 

http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/3334-why-the-fck-was-wee-barry-awarded-an-mbe/

[Gav]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

I thought this forum had to be shut down on occasion during the Souness era due to all the squabbling?

Yes I think it was down to one or two individuals setting up duplicate accounts to stir up trouble, they quickly got found out and dispatched 

[Mike E]

Just now, Gav said:

Yes I think it was down to one or two individuals setting up duplicate accounts to stir up trouble, they quickly got found out and dispatched 

Top marks for satire

[Doaksie]

I was at Brockhall the day that Souness had his falling out with Andy Cole. Cole was disappearing off to the changing rooms as we arrived. Something to do with an over-zealous Souey challenge in the 5 a sides if I recall correctly. Anyhow, the players, and certainly Souness didn't seem particularly phased after it. Tugay was busy spreading 50 yard passes across the pitch into a cooler box before going for a smoke, Craig Short was an absolute gentleman and spoke at great length, and we took penalties against Sir Brad. Souness hit one that rattled the bar, and it was still shaking in fear some 20 seconds later. The ball passed the halfway line. My personal experiences of him couldn't be better. A real football man, and it was very clear each and every one of those players both respected and feared him in equal measure.