[Archived] So what happens if we stay up?

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Sorry Big Dog,but I can't see the optimism for the following reasons:

 

1. The D of F appears to be another Shagnew/Shebby Singh/Anderson kind of chancer who is after a quick buck.

2. Our better players are loanees, and we have no money to buy them.

3. Quite a few players are on Bosmans this summer, and will most likely be replaced by a bunch of out of contract asshats because they're cheaper.

4. More massive cost cuts will probably take place as bank loans are running out and the owners are too arrogant to sell up.

5. Tony may walk out if he's being messed about and not given the chance to improve the squad (as in have a say about who comes in, and whether the D of F's suggestions are the right guys).

6. Since the day the Raos took over, they have had an uncanny ability to take the wrong decision for the club. 

7. At least one of the better youngsters will probably be sold so Bling Rao can buy a Ferrari.

So with the likelihood of a downgraded squad which is very different to the current squad I cannot see that anything will be better next season.

 

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

1- What are you basing that on? 

2-Sam Gallagher is on loan. I would argue he isn't even our best striker at the moment. 

3- We will have to wait and see who signs new contracts and who doesn't. I would re-sign Guthrie and Mahoney as definites, not sure on a few others. 

4-Doesn't mean we will be worse than this season. 

5-We will have to wait and see. No suggestion of this at the moment. If he did leave, it would be terrible. 

6-Agree with you here. Can just hope they have learnt valubale lessons and just let Mowbray get on with his job, hopefully with some support. 

7-Again, we will have to wait and see. Every player has his price. I would be more concerned about Mahoney not signing a contract.

I just don't see a downgrade. Mowbray is far more astute than Coyle. Even on a budget. 

 

1. The amount of roles he has had in football, none of which have actually been DOF. Adding in that his wife is an agent, and you  can see why there's a whiff of suspicion. Added to which his recruitment in January was a little underwhelming.

 

2. Over the course of the season rather than the moment (when coming back from injury) he probably is our best striker. But you could be right, our best striker could be Emnes, or Joao - both of whom are on loan. Even if it's Graham you're reduced to a solitary goal threat who struggles to play 3 games in a week.

 

3. Look at the past 6 years and see if players have been replaced with better. But of course it will suddenly all turn round now, after 6 years of downgrading. Duffy and Hanley replaced by Hoban and Greer (neither of whom may be here next season!) Marshall replaced by Feeney. Even ignoring the less recent past the downward trend continues.

 

4. Well, you have to admit that the cuts under GB and Clueless has seen us plunge downwards. Not to mention logic saying that money can have a huge role to play. Heck, look at any football club and look at what happens when things are constantly downgraded and you see a downward trajectory. (For proof look at Blackpool and Coventry for starters.) It's not a guarantee but odds are that this is the result of what will happen. Also further cuts have been warned which given we're already scraping bargain basement is very worrying.

 

5. No suggestion. Apart from him walking from a club with stupid owners who wanted him to put together a team based on frees and loans. And the fact that Vs recently forced Lambert out. Nothing at all to suggest it won't happen again.

 

6. Hope - in other words you've no evidence to support this. Indeed all the evidence supports the fact they haven't learned a thing (or don't want to change, which imo is what's really going on.)

 

7. Again, history suggests that we will. Marshall, Duffy and Hanley flogged off this season. Cairney and Rhodes as well. We don't know the future but we can make a very educated guess based on Vs past performance.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

The very first post I read from you was telling us how much you supported Owen Coyle? We need to give him time, he's done it before etc etc......

You must have had some itchy ones on your arse in your time because you keep scratching.

Show me a post where I said either of those things. You are just lying now. I wouldn't even say taking my posts out of context you are so far from what I was saying.  Desperate for attention you are. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Neil Weaver said:

 

Really?  Proof?

You see, if you lay down rules for everyone else then you should follow em too.  Who knows what people will think of you otherwise.

Nice to see you being consistent.  You don't half come out with some.

We do have a DOF. It is a fact. I was looking for proof of an imaginary phone call.

Do you understand the difference? Different contexts require different answers. 

These sheep are small, but those ones are far away....

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

 

1. The amount of roles he has had in football, none of which have actually been DOF. Adding in that his wife is an agent, and you  can see why there's a whiff of suspicion. Added to which his recruitment in January was a little underwhelming.

 

2. Over the course of the season rather than the moment (when coming back from injury) he probably is our best striker. But you could be right, our best striker could be Emnes, or Joao - both of whom are on loan. Even if it's Graham you're reduced to a solitary goal threat who struggles to play 3 games in a week.

 

3. Look at the past 6 years and see if players have been replaced with better. But of course it will suddenly all turn round now, after 6 years of downgrading. Duffy and Hanley replaced by Hoban and Greer (neither of whom may be here next season!) Marshall replaced by Feeney. Even ignoring the less recent past the downward trend continues.

 

4. Well, you have to admit that the cuts under GB and Clueless has seen us plunge downwards. Not to mention logic saying that money can have a huge role to play. Heck, look at any football club and look at what happens when things are constantly downgraded and you see a downward trajectory. (For proof look at Blackpool and Coventry for starters.) It's not a guarantee but odds are that this is the result of what will happen. Also further cuts have been warned which given we're already scraping bargain basement is very worrying.

 

5. No suggestion. Apart from him walking from a club with stupid owners who wanted him to put together a team based on frees and loans. And the fact that Vs recently forced Lambert out. Nothing at all to suggest it won't happen again.

 

6. Hope - in other words you've no evidence to support this. Indeed all the evidence supports the fact they haven't learned a thing (or don't want to change, which imo is what's really going on.)

 

7. Again, history suggests that we will. Marshall, Duffy and Hanley flogged off this season. Cairney and Rhodes as well. We don't know the future but we can make a very educated guess based on Vs past performance.

1-you dont need to have worked as a DOF, to be a good one. I think the fact people on here keep talking about what his wife does on here is ridiculous. Should we not employ people based on their wifes occupation? Come on..

2-Fair point. Stokes seemed on the outside to be a decent signing too, but that hasn't worked out. We will need some additions upfront during the summer

3- Selling Hanley and Duffy weakened us, but lets be honest but wanted out of the club. 

4-I have covered this already in the thread.

5-Even more reason that he knows what he has signed up for. 

6- Well nobody can tell the future  If I could I would be on an island somewhere sipping a cocktail. There is plenty of room for improvement in our current squad. We are seeing improvements already under Mowbray. 

7- The first 3 wanted to go and we got good prices for the other 2. Plenty of fans said it was good business to sell Rhodes. We have a huge wage budget ,have wasted tens of millions on dross players since being relegated and are getting around 10,000 fans at home games. You mention Coventry and Blackpool. One of the reasons Coventry are screwd is because they spent big to try and get promoted to the Premiership and failed. Since then they hurtled down the divisions. We tried similar in our first few seasons after relegation. To be honest I am surprised looking back that we didnt get relegated the time we had Kean, Berg and Appleton all managing us the one season. I am not saying "we have turned a corner" or "the only way is up" , but I do believe we have weather a huge storm here over the past 6 years and if we stay up, the scope is there to start creeping back up towards the play-offs. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, JonnyP said:

I think that's a good point, the speculative sh*te that is discussed on here sometimes is beyond rubbish, I appreciate things have been abysmal in the last 6 years but I agree if we stay up with a half decent manager who seems to have the players on his side and given the summer to work on things we could work our way into mid table next season. 

When TM was appointed the amount of negativity was unbelievable with people claiming it to be the worst decision ever nearly hoping it failed, ok it's only 5 games in but he's started remarkably well and we already look like a half decent outfit, Fulham game will be a big test but I think there are people on here who think they know more than they do sucking the life out of the club and the supporters who are trying to get behind the club.

My opinion is that fans refusing to go to games and boycotting the club is part of the failings, we are averaging 11,000 a game which isn't good enough to finance new players or give players decent contracts, I appreciate the owners have been less than forward with their own cash but I think the fans need to stay together continue to go to games and get behind the team. At the end of the day it's our club do we want it to let it to be a forgotten memory or do we pull together, turn out and have our voices heard.

Well said 

[JonnyP]

Next few months going to be huge, if we stay up, what approach will the management take and will they invest? Will they at least try keep what we've got or will they continue to strip our current squad. If we get relegated they will surely strip away anything that has any value.

Football is a funny game you'd be amazed what a team can achieve if you put a decent structure in place everyone knows what their job is and are devoted to the cause. Iv played in a number of teams who didn't have the most talented players but we were well managed and worked our socks off and pulled off a number of great results against better teams than ourselves.

i think that quiet a few of the players in the squad will begin to thrive playing first team football on a regular basis with a manager who is showing confidence in them and not bullshitting them on a regular basis. Just cus ur not on a big contract doesn't mean you can't step up and do a good job.

[Gav]

30 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You must have had some itchy ones on your arse in your time because you keep scratching.

Show me a post where I said either of those things. You are just lying now. I wouldn't even say taking my posts out of context you are so far from what I was saying.  Desperate for attention you are. 

Its there for anyone to read in the Norwich thread, so don't call me a liar, even your 'mate' RV says your pro-Coyle stance wound him up. 

Need I go on? 

 

[A cup of beans]

4 hours ago, Iceman said:

You are the only positive to come from their reign Bigdog lol 

Paul Senior's grin is getting wider.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Gav said:

Its there for anyone to read in the Norwich thread, so don't call me a liar, even your 'mate' RV says your pro-Coyle stance wound him up. 

Need I go on? 

 

But thats not what you said. You said  The very first post I read from you was telling us how much you supported Owen Coyle? We need to give him time, he's done it before etc etc.

Now you are saying read what RV said in the Norwich thread. You are an absolute spoofer. 

Actually seeing as you love reading my posts so much, why don't you read my response to RV in the same thread? 

[blueboy3333]

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I didn't raise the topic. I responded to the opening post in a thread somebody else opened. 

What do you mean "don't just say we have a DOF"?? I see it as a positive, so I will just say that. I will also add that since we he came in, he sacked a dud of a manager. Appointed a manager who has been a huge success so far, in albeit a short time. A manager that nobody here would have chosen. As for Seniors track record, the default approach here is slate anyone. I don't know a great deal about his previous record, similar to practically everyone else here. All I have read on his record here is speculation. I will reserve judgement until i see more, as is my right. 

Struggling next season is not guaranteed. I am not saying that we wont, but having a proper manager and a hungry team of players in this division goes a long way. Coyle was a terrible appointment. Our squad should not be where we are. So I see improvements next season.

All very reasonable. 

 

[blueboy3333]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

For someone who called for the thread to be closed on the first page you've more front than Blackpool.

You're ruining most threads, but I know that won't be allowed to continue much longer.

We have a few positive posters still around, this despite years of neglect from the owners, but they've got plenty of substance in their posts, you've not, which is why nobody is taking you seriously.

 

Are you a mod?

[gumboots]

I've put bds on ignore but others keep responding and quoting. It's frustrating to say the least. I don't know why you bother. He's out to get a response. Don't bother. 

[Gav]

4 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Are you a mod?

 

[Athlete]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We do have a DOF. It is a fact. I was looking for proof of an imaginary phone call.

Do you understand the difference? Different contexts require different answers. 

These sheep are small, but those ones are far away....

Calm down Paul... We have a dof who hasn't got a good track record as pointed out on numerous occasions by different posters as well as people in the industry.. Now call me cynical but this dofs wife is also a  football agent 

[blueboy3333]

30 minutes ago, gumboots said:

I've put bds on ignore but others keep responding and quoting. It's frustrating to say the least. I don't know why you bother. He's out to get a response. Don't bother. 

I'm just glad someone is generating some debate.  

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

1-you dont need to have worked as a DOF, to be a good one. I think the fact people on here keep talking about what his wife does on here is ridiculous. Should we not employ people based on their wifes occupation? Come on..

2-Fair point. Stokes seemed on the outside to be a decent signing too, but that hasn't worked out. We will need some additions upfront during the summer

3- Selling Hanley and Duffy weakened us, but lets be honest but wanted out of the club. 

4-I have covered this already in the thread.

5-Even more reason that he knows what he has signed up for. 

6- Well nobody can tell the future  If I could I would be on an island somewhere sipping a cocktail. There is plenty of room for improvement in our current squad. We are seeing improvements already under Mowbray. 

7- The first 3 wanted to go and we got good prices for the other 2. Plenty of fans said it was good business to sell Rhodes. We have a huge wage budget ,have wasted tens of millions on dross players since being relegated and are getting around 10,000 fans at home games. You mention Coventry and Blackpool. One of the reasons Coventry are screwd is because they spent big to try and get promoted to the Premiership and failed. Since then they hurtled down the divisions. We tried similar in our first few seasons after relegation. To be honest I am surprised looking back that we didnt get relegated the time we had Kean, Berg and Appleton all managing us the one season. I am not saying "we have turned a corner" or "the only way is up" , but I do believe we have weather a huge storm here over the past 6 years and if we stay up, the scope is there to start creeping back up towards the play-offs. 

Sorry Gumboots, but feel the need to highlight a couple of errors.

 

1. You're now saying experience in the role doesn't matter??? Especially in an important one such as DOF? In fact to have never done it before doesn't mean you won't be a good one. On that logic I could be a doctor or an electrician (no background in either.) I'm willing to bet you wouldn't let me serve you in that in either role; why because being qualified and experienced matters. I'd suggest, like in many professions, being a DOF needs experience and qualifications, things Senior doesn't really possess.

As for his wife - if she were a brain surgeon or a beautician I'd agree, but the problem is that her role as an agent means that there is a conflict of interest. Paul wants his wife to do well + He is in a position to do so by buying her players for Rovers = conflict of interest. And hey, it's not like there's been any agents profiting from conflicting interest in the last 6 years under Venkeys, and no chance it could happen under their watchful gaze...

All of which ignores the point the DOF model doesn't really work in England.

 

2. Not just up front. Hoban leaves, and Greer becomes 37, I'd imagine there are replacements needed at the back too. Not to mention Conway is fading, we're a rb short if we let Lowe go, a creative cm if we let Guthrie go. TM has a very busy summer ahead of him.

 

3. The problem is not the sale but the lack of investment in replacements. Well, there is an issue in part with the sales - we could get them to perform well even if they want out - it's called man management. But the main problem is lack of investment in decent replacements. Analogy time: imagine I run a business selling quality used cars. I sell off a few BMWs I've done up for a good sum, but rather than use any of it to buy new cars I can also do up and sell, I buy a couple of cars only fit for the scrapheap. Or perhaps I don't buy in any more stock. Either way the business is going to do badly by me not reinvesting enough of my capital. That's what is happening with us; we can't perform if we don't spend a suitable/appropriate amount on replacements. I'd suggest 2.5% of our sales is not enough to count at that level.

 

4 I get your point money doesn't equal success, and I agree. However, again, you miss the point of suitable levels of investment. Another analogy: imagine I run a school and want an excellent teacher. Sure I could spend £50K p.a. getting in an experienced teacher who is excellent, but perhaps spending £22K p.a. I might get a hungry newly qualified teacher who has loads of great ideas and is just as good a teacher/performs just as well. Problem is if I have a budget of £5K p.a. I'm not going to recruit anyone at the appropriate standard. There's a minimum spend needed in order to achieve what you want. Same with Rovers. And we're already beginning to sink below that minimum spend before we consider the next round of cuts that have been promised.

 

5. Now given Venkeys have lied to managers (and everyone else) on numerous occasions - could TM have a distorted view of the situation? Given their propensity for whoppers I'd think so. And no manager has found them easy to work with - even Clueless complained at how slow they were getting back to him. In fact the last 2 managers have both had big issues with our owners, so to think TM won't is optimistic to say the least.

 

6. I grant you no one knows the future but surely if it's happened the last 6 years, it's very likely to happen a 7th. Especially since the reason for change is a dodgy DOF who should be nowhere near that position.

 

7. You lost me a bit on this one. Firstly it doesn't matter what price we get for them if none of the money is actually placed into strengthening the team. Again, you talk about overspending, and I get that BUT we're not talking about overspending, but an appropriate minimum spend. Said many years ago by one poster (Den??) when we were in the Premiership; "buy first division players and you get first division football". The point being you get the level of football similar to the resources you put in. Given we're putting in next to nothing and flogging everything in sight, the result will be we get lower division football.

[Blue blood]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I'm just glad someone is generating some debate.  

Yeah, but when you think Vs will change their stupid practices, or that Senior is a suitable person for a DOF you have to question the substance of their arguments.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Yeah, but when you think Vs will change their stupid practices, or that Senior is a suitable person for a DOF you have to question the substance of their arguments.

Not my point.

You've proved my point by replying to him in a respectful manner and generating more debate. At least you didn't log on just to ask for him to be banned or ignored.

 Kudos to you. 

[Gav]

2 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Are you a mod?

If I was I'd be all over posters with duplicate accounts, replying to there own posts under different names blueboy3333.

But until the net closes in, me and you will have to put up with such antics, what fun eh, 

[Neil Weaver]

BDS, I'm not going to quote you for the sake of other posters' sanity.

Proof was in connection with your assertion that Senior "sacked a dud of a manager".  But you knew that.

I note the example of double standards was nicely glossed over.

That's enough of my time wasted on a lost cause so I'll be off now and leave you to your sheep.

[onlyonejackwalker]

On Sunday, March 12, 2017 at 4:48 PM, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

So we survive relegation,what happens next Season?

Do our great Cultural leaders in Pune actually have a plan,are we set for another season of turgid football with our sole ambition being survival amongst the dead men in this @#/? pot of a league?.

Is that all we have going for us these days,is that all we have to offer as a club now?...

The future looks unbelievably bleak.

Supporting the Rovers under Venkys is a tad tricky and all about managing expectations. 

Can't get too far ahead. In the aftermath of the last bloke, survival in this division remains sole priority.

Should that happen, Mowbray will have done what was asked / very well.

It would be good to see him have chance to offload and recruit a few. Early days and I know we have played the lower / mid table teams to date but undefeated in five, with 9 points gained, is a far better return than anyone expected.

Big game tonight most predict we will lose. Hopefully we remain unbeaten. Clean sheet please.

[Bigdoggsteel]

23 hours ago, gumboots said:

I've put bds on ignore but others keep responding and quoting. It's frustrating to say the least. I don't know why you bother. He's out to get a response. Don't bother. 

Is everybody else on here talking to themselves or something? 

Can you stick with your ignore policy and not mention me in your silly posts. Thanks. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

22 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Sorry Gumboots, but feel the need to highlight a couple of errors.

 

1. You're now saying experience in the role doesn't matter??? Especially in an important one such as DOF? In fact to have never done it before doesn't mean you won't be a good one. On that logic I could be a doctor or an electrician (no background in either.) I'm willing to bet you wouldn't let me serve you in that in either role; why because being qualified and experienced matters. I'd suggest, like in many professions, being a DOF needs experience and qualifications, things Senior doesn't really possess.

As for his wife - if she were a brain surgeon or a beautician I'd agree, but the problem is that her role as an agent means that there is a conflict of interest. Paul wants his wife to do well + He is in a position to do so by buying her players for Rovers = conflict of interest. And hey, it's not like there's been any agents profiting from conflicting interest in the last 6 years under Venkeys, and no chance it could happen under their watchful gaze...

All of which ignores the point the DOF model doesn't really work in England.

 

2. Not just up front. Hoban leaves, and Greer becomes 37, I'd imagine there are replacements needed at the back too. Not to mention Conway is fading, we're a rb short if we let Lowe go, a creative cm if we let Guthrie go. TM has a very busy summer ahead of him.

 

3. The problem is not the sale but the lack of investment in replacements. Well, there is an issue in part with the sales - we could get them to perform well even if they want out - it's called man management. But the main problem is lack of investment in decent replacements. Analogy time: imagine I run a business selling quality used cars. I sell off a few BMWs I've done up for a good sum, but rather than use any of it to buy new cars I can also do up and sell, I buy a couple of cars only fit for the scrapheap. Or perhaps I don't buy in any more stock. Either way the business is going to do badly by me not reinvesting enough of my capital. That's what is happening with us; we can't perform if we don't spend a suitable/appropriate amount on replacements. I'd suggest 2.5% of our sales is not enough to count at that level.

 

4 I get your point money doesn't equal success, and I agree. However, again, you miss the point of suitable levels of investment. Another analogy: imagine I run a school and want an excellent teacher. Sure I could spend £50K p.a. getting in an experienced teacher who is excellent, but perhaps spending £22K p.a. I might get a hungry newly qualified teacher who has loads of great ideas and is just as good a teacher/performs just as well. Problem is if I have a budget of £5K p.a. I'm not going to recruit anyone at the appropriate standard. There's a minimum spend needed in order to achieve what you want. Same with Rovers. And we're already beginning to sink below that minimum spend before we consider the next round of cuts that have been promised.

 

5. Now given Venkeys have lied to managers (and everyone else) on numerous occasions - could TM have a distorted view of the situation? Given their propensity for whoppers I'd think so. And no manager has found them easy to work with - even Clueless complained at how slow they were getting back to him. In fact the last 2 managers have both had big issues with our owners, so to think TM won't is optimistic to say the least.

 

6. I grant you no one knows the future but surely if it's happened the last 6 years, it's very likely to happen a 7th. Especially since the reason for change is a dodgy DOF who should be nowhere near that position.

 

7. You lost me a bit on this one. Firstly it doesn't matter what price we get for them if none of the money is actually placed into strengthening the team. Again, you talk about overspending, and I get that BUT we're not talking about overspending, but an appropriate minimum spend. Said many years ago by one poster (Den??) when we were in the Premiership; "buy first division players and you get first division football". The point being you get the level of football similar to the resources you put in. Given we're putting in next to nothing and flogging everything in sight, the result will be we get lower division football.

What qualifications do you need to be a DOF in your eyes? You can go to college to study to be doctor or do an apprenticeship to be an electrician. To be a DOF you don't need to go to college, unless I missed the PHD in Director of Footballness that some universities offer.  You could argue Senior has done his apprenticeship.  Whether Senior turns out to be good or bad in the role, your argument is weak to say the least. Would say ,Tim Sherwood, make a good DOF? What qualifications does he have? What about Camolli when he was at Liverpool, what qualifications did he have?

The argument that "the DOF model" doesn't work in England is backwards thinking. That type of attitude is why the English national team have constantly lagged behind their European counterparts. While other countries were playing futsal and focusing on small skillful players, England were still stuck in the hoofball style of football up to the big lad upfront. They are playing catch up over the past few years. There is no reason whatsover that the DOF model would not work in England, if it works elsewhere. 

 

 

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