[Archived] Unsustainable Rovers

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, RoverCanada said:

Thought I'd take a quick look back at our 'other loans' history.

Looking at the 2014 accounts, for 2013 and 2014 we had a £5M loan that was secured against our parachute payments and it was fully repaid in August 2014. That loan was at a 9% interest rate. In the 2015 accounts, the other loan drops to £4.5M, again secured against parachute payments and this time at a 9.5% interest rate. This was repaid in August 2015.

Looking back to 2013, the overdraft used to be 2.4%+LIBOR, now it's 2.65%+LIBOR. The overdraft really came into play in 2013, as it rose from £3.7M in 2012 to £13.7M in 2013. It's been fluctuating around that level since.

So the £1.8M loan at 8.6% isn't all that different from our parachute payment-backed loans (so the same mess we've always been). Doesn't strike me as all that extortionate either for a loan to a financially high-risk endeavour like football. The £431k loan at 14% that was paid off in July 2016 rings more alarm bells though.

It's a sad situation though. People are clamouring for the cuts to stop, but that would require either Venky's increasing its interest-free loan from £87M, which doesn't appear to be happening (and do we really want to be even more indebted to them?) or taking on these short-term loans which of course hurt the short-term finances themselves.

How we still have the 9th highest wage bill in the league strikes me as the most pertinent question when we should really be down to more like 15th-ish. Either we've still got a bunch of payoffs going on, Graham, Stokes and co. are still on absurd wages, or maybe some agents are playing games with the wage bill, or a combination of all three! Cheston took lots of s*** for announcing more cuts are coming but what other choice is there?

Good to see someone questioning the figures Dunn FC comes out with. They always appear pretty random.

On the highlighted para I'm not sure if the pay-offs to past players are still included in the current wage bill. Cheston said in one of his recent interviews with the LT (last 12 months) that historical pay-offs were still happening. I'd also imagine the likes of Graham are on pretty decent money for a team in the bottom 3 of ther Championship who are £120m in debt.

This summer is vital re retaining the majority of our good young players, getting rid of the overpaid dross and building a good team on little money for whichever division we find ourselves in. Senior should be judged then, not on any management waffle he comes out with beforehand.

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Are you not meant to be a mod? It seems like you spend most of your time going around bickering with posters these days.

I edited my post before you responded. I wasn't actually referring to the issue that you have responded to. So, I think you need to go back to some other poster with that response  

Not a mod, stopped due to the personal hassle I was getting. Just a regular member with no 'mates' and in no 'clique'.

You couldn't possibly have edited before I responded, or else it wouldn't be quoted would it?

I wasn't saying you were the 'fingers in ear' poster (you haven't posted for days, it wouldn't be you), but was mainly responding to your empty vessel comment.

It does a disservice to posters who have given the club a fighting chance of survival, and getting the truth of our downfall into international media.

[RV Blue]

31 minutes ago, 1arC said:

Its a shame you are sick of listening to posters like myself, as most of my posts are received pretty well. I am pretty sure you are a plant and I would imagine that others are too. I know you haven't posted for a few days, but noticed you logged on. Where you just having a look at other things, seeing as you were sick of listening to posters like me?

He's a plant for having a different opinion to you, give your head a wobble. Do you talk to Rovers fans in real life? Most of them that go to games have opinions similar to BDS.

[RV Blue]

Just now, Mike E said:

Not a mod, stopped due to the personal hassle I was getting. Just a regular member with no 'mates' and in no 'clique'.

You couldn't possibly have edited before I responded, or else it wouldn't be quoted would it?

I wasn't saying you were the 'fingers in ear' poster (you haven't posted for days, it wouldn't be you), but was mainly responding to your empty vessel comment.

It does a disservice to posters who have given the club a fighting chance of survival, and getting the truth of our downfall into international media.

Erm maybe he edited it in the time between when you pressed 'quote' and 'submit reply'...

[Mike E]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Erm maybe he edited it in the time between when you pressed 'quote' and 'submit reply'...

Erm... but he didn't I do actually double-check these things. Modding habit.

[RV Blue]

9 minutes ago, Mike E said:

You couldn't possibly have edited before I responded, or else it wouldn't be quoted would it?

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but this statement is wrong.

[Oldgregg86]

42 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

It's amazing 5 people 'liked' this considering I never mentioned League 1 

I apologise for misinterpeting what you meant although getting back to the prem is less likely than the scenario I thought you were saying which says it all

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

I apologise for misinterpeting what you meant although getting back to the prem is less likely than the scenario I thought you were saying which says it all

No need to apologise. 

Re promotion, I agree it's very very very unlikely, but it only takes one lucky season via the play-offs. It's happened to other clubs run on a shoestring (Blackpool under Holloway, Bonleh under Coyle). It isn't a great league by any stretch.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

No need to apologise. 

Re promotion, I agree it's very very very unlikely, but it only takes one lucky season via the play-offs. It's happened to other clubs run on a shoestring (Blackpool under Holloway, Bonleh under Coyle). It isn't a great league by any stretch.

What then? 130 million cost of promotion and a year in PL clears Venkys share capital and personal guarantees. No money for the club. Come on think blueboy you labelled me not very bright and almost thick the other day.

 

[Oldgregg86]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

What then? 130 million cost of promotion and a year in PL clears Venkys share capital and personal guarantees. No money for the club. Come on think blueboy you labelled me not very bright and almost thick the other day.

 

Seniors wife gets an office at brockhall and it's as you where

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

What then? 130 million cost of promotion and a year in PL clears Venkys share capital and personal guarantees. No money for the club. Come on think blueboy you labelled me not very bright and almost thick the other day.

 

Promotion makes Rovers enough money that Venky's can be paid off which would save face for them and provide a get-out. This scenario has been suggested to me as plausible by someone who would know.  

Alternatively, promotion re-ignites their interest and they invest wisely and we stay up. Not likely but stranger things have happened.

Either way you'd have to be an idiot to see promotion as a negative given our financial plight. 

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, meadows said:

Coyle followed Cotterill. Dyche took over Howe's side. 

Good spot. I've been giving Dyche far to much credit!

[Dunnfc]

18 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Promotion makes Rovers enough money that Venky's can be paid off which would save face for them and provide a get-out. This scenario has been suggested to me as plausible by someone who would know.  

Alternatively, promotion re-ignites their interest and they invest wisely and we stay up. Not likely but stranger things have happened.

Either way you'd have to be an idiot to see promotion as a negative given our financial plight. 

Wow nativity at it's best, have you heard of the expressions of cut and run? Maybe switch and go? They center around creditors maximizing there own position not an entity but what they are personally liable for, i.e those personal guarantees mentioned on the meeting thread. Re-ignite interest, the VHPL company isn't going as planned away from India within it's respective subsidiaries and JV's, in fact investments abroad especially in the UK are residual just making profit (odd million), perhaps you can tell me which one is the "earner"?

An idiot? there you go again! How on earth does a bankrupt club with youth and loans only achieve promotion without a bit of fluke? I could sort of understand that concept if we were solvent or breaking even and living within our means but we are not. So promotion get it and then what? 148 million is currently held as director finance £1.00 e/a share capital with another 85 million in personally guaranteed VHPL debt? £130million is going to come in and go out without expense, they will re-cuperate what they can and head for any hill in Pune maximizing there position and exposing them to little liability without any thought to BRFC.

Anyone spot Mowbray, Lambert and Coyle similarities? ............. All years ago got promotion on youth without spending much. THAT's the criteria. 

Quote

It's like Watergate. 

Who's 'Deep Throat'

To save duplication on matters 1 hr ago in the meeting with club thread you posted the above quote (In Bold) AFTER this other gem earlier to my initial post.... of the below:

Quote

Another ex employee tonight messaging me for a meet

So just who was this plausible someone in bold (First Quote) Then in futbol (Apologies just catching up)

You couldn't name that racial slur could you? Whilst labeling me not very bright. I politely request what you do for a living?.. (Edit - Explained disclosed business links).

Quote

You have provided absolutely nothing to justify that slur, despite being asked. I think you may have some issues. 

All you need to do is retract your comment and admit it was based on ignorance. If you delete your post I will delete it's contents from my replies. 

I don't think you're a racist by the way, I just think you're very ignorant and perhaps not the brightest. The confused and rambling nature of your posts in this thread seem to back up that theory.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, 1arC said:

Its a shame you are sick of listening to posters like myself, as most of my posts are received pretty well. I am pretty sure you are a plant and I would imagine that others are too. I know you haven't posted for a few days, but noticed you logged on. Where you just having a look at other things, seeing as you were sick of listening to posters like me?

What? Man you are caught inside your own conspiracies. Either that or you have some garden fetish as you mention plants so frequently. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

Not a mod, stopped due to the personal hassle I was getting. Just a regular member with no 'mates' and in no 'clique'.

You couldn't possibly have edited before I responded, or else it wouldn't be quoted would it?

I wasn't saying you were the 'fingers in ear' poster (you haven't posted for days, it wouldn't be you), but was mainly responding to your empty vessel comment.

It does a disservice to posters who have given the club a fighting chance of survival, and getting the truth of our downfall into international media.

I did edit it. You must have clicked straight away. 

Fair enough if you aren't a mod anymore. I think you contribute some good ,level headed posts. It's a shame not all posters seem capable of doing likewise. 

Clearly the money situation is terrible. I don't see why people are so surprised and outraged. I came to terms with it about 5 years ago. The thing people need to do though is seperate the people who currently work at the club like the players,the manager,the DOF and all the other members of staff from the owners. The staff are just trying to do their jobs from what I read,see and hear. The way some posters go on here,you would think everyone is up to something. It's crazy. 

Case in point. Look at the crack pot above. "I wonder why BDS hasn't posted in a few days" with a conspiratorial tone. Followed up by a direct accusation of being "a plant". Is it any wonder I don't have much interest in posting here?  

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

Wow nativity at it's best, have you heard of the expressions of cut and run? Maybe switch and go? They center around creditors maximizing there own position not an entity but what they are personally liable for, i.e those personal guarantees mentioned on the meeting thread. Re-ignite interest, the VHPL company isn't going as planned away from India within it's respective subsidiaries and JV's, in fact investments abroad especially in the UK are residual just making profit (odd million), perhaps you can tell me which one is the "earner"?

An idiot? there you go again! How on earth does a bankrupt club with youth and loans only achieve promotion without a bit of fluke? I could sort of understand that concept if we were solvent or breaking even and living within our means but we are not. So promotion get it and then what? 148 million is currently held as director finance £1.00 e/a share capital with another 85 million in personally guaranteed VHPL debt? £130million is going to come in and go out without expense, they will re-cuperate what they can and head for any hill in Pune maximizing there position and exposing them to little liability without any thought to BRFC.

Anyone spot Mowbray, Lambert and Coyle similarities? ............. All years ago got promotion on youth without spending much. THAT's the criteria. 

To save duplication on matters 1 hr ago in the meeting with club thread you posted the above quote (In Bold) AFTER this other gem earlier to my initial post.... of the below:

So just who was this plausible someone in bold (First Quote) Then in futbol (Apologies just catching up)

You couldn't name that racial slur could you? Whilst labeling me not very bright. I politely request what you do for a living only I study my masters in contract law (Graduate in June), hold a small construction consultancy company and work for a world wide top five contractor within fiance and commercial dept.... but you?

 

I didn't call you an idiot in the post you quoted.

As for the rest I genuinely have no idea what you are blathering on about. Your posts read like the stream of consciousness of someone on acid. However, I am delighted for you that you see yourself as Blackburn's answer to the 'Wolf of Wall Street' but I'm not sure of the relevance? 

As for the futbol thread you will find the answer to your question there. I even wrote it in CAPITALS to make it easier for you. 

[Colt Seavers]

9 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

Wow nativity at it's best.

 

 

more of a pantomine this season to be honest! 

[Dunnfc]

2 minutes ago, Colt Seavers said:

 

more of a pantomine this season to be honest! 

Careful 

hes behind you! Christ I'd cake myself if it was balaji 

[Dunnfc]

15 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

I didn't call you an idiot in the post you quoted.

As for the rest I genuinely have no idea what you are blathering on about. Your posts read like the stream of consciousness of someone on acid. However, I am delighted for you that you see yourself as Blackburn's answer to the 'Wolf of Wall Street' but I'm not sure of the relevance? 

As for the futbol thread you will find the answer to your question there. I even wrote it in CAPITALS to make it easier for you. 

Oh sorry I was waiting for you to point out that racial slur...?!

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

Oh sorry I was waiting for you to point out that racial slur...?!

Thought you were off out?

[47er]

5 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

 Loads of people I've never met can't stand me 

 

I know, I'm one of them! 

[47er]

3 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Promotion makes Rovers enough money that Venky's can be paid off which would save face for them and provide a get-out. This scenario has been suggested to me as plausible by someone who would know.  

Alternatively, promotion re-ignites their interest and they invest wisely and we stay up. Not likely but stranger things have happened.

Either way you'd have to be an idiot to see promotion as a negative given our financial plight. 

So cuts of £6M to be imposed on top of the cuts already in place over years, £250000 spent on transfers over 2 seasons with £38M(?) received in transfer fees, we are still likely to be relegated or finish fourth from bottom and "someone who would know" has suggested PROMOTION as the way out!

Genius! 

 

 

[tomphil]

Just now, 47er said:

So cuts of £6M to be imposed on top of the cuts already in place over years, £250000 spent on transfers over 2 seasons with £38M(?) received in transfer fees, we are still likely to be relegated or finish fourth from bottom and "someone who would know" has suggested PROMOTION as the way out!

Genius! 

 

 

It's known as rocket science in some circles, delusion in others but hey Blackpool once did it so we are ok

Meanwhile some others who should know were sat at a table in front of fans last night trying to paint a rosy picture whilst all but admitting the roses are actually struggling to survive.

[darrenrover]

I think many need to read back through various threads and posts and have a good, hard look at yourselves and what you've become. Social media has a lot to answer for IMO: there are few positives.

Thanks also to Venkys because previously we were always one big happy family.

[1arC]

13 hours ago, RV Blue said:

He's a plant for having a different opinion to you, give your head a wobble. Do you talk to Rovers fans in real life? Most of them that go to games have opinions similar to BDS.

I welcome different opinions than mine and you will find I have NEVER had any kind of a run in with anyone on here. Look back at my posts and you will clearly see that.