[Archived] Unsustainable Rovers

[1arC]

13 hours ago, Mike E said:

Erm... but he didn't I do actually double-check these things. Modding habit.

You aren't suggesting BDS is telling lies are you? Well I never.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

If anyone is still under the illusion that we have a positive future under Venkys,in the face of all their wreckingball reckless running of the club to date then,frankly speaking, I really feel sorry for you and your rationale.I also question your motives for defending these crackpots.

This club is going to hell on a Hand Cart and God only knows we don't deserve to be treated like this...what we are going through is now deliberate and motivated by pure spite.

[Bigdoggsteel]

58 minutes ago, 1arC said:

You aren't suggesting BDS is telling lies are you? Well I never.

No,he is saying he clicked reply just before I edited my post. 

Are you really this thick or is it just an act for the message board? 

[1arC]

20 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

No,he is saying he clicked reply just before I edited my post. 

Are you really this thick or is it just an act for the message board? 

Read it properly and you will find I am correct and you are wrong. Perhaps in all your excitement you missed what he said. Perhaps Mike could clarify?

[Leonard Venkhater]

13 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

I didn't call you an idiot in the post you quoted.

As for the rest I genuinely have no idea what you are blathering on about. Your posts read like the stream of consciousness of someone on acid. However, I am delighted for you that you see yourself as Blackburn's answer to the 'Wolf of Wall Street' but I'm not sure of the relevance? 

As for the futbol thread you will find the answer to your question there. I even wrote it in CAPITALS to make it easier for you. 

I think you would have to be deliberately obtuse to dismiss Dunn's work as stream of consciousness.Have you ever tried to read Mrs Dalloway?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

I think you would have to be deliberately obtuse to dismiss Dunn's work as stream of consciousness.Have you ever tried to read Mrs Dalloway?

No. I'm afraid of Virginia Woolf.

 

[Mike E]

I don't think he edited it before my post but it's irrelevant. Whether he did or didn't doesn't actually matter though so let's leave it alone.

[1arC]

Just now, Mike E said:

I don't think he edited it before my post but it's irrelevant. Whether he did or didn't doesn't actually matter though so let's leave it alone.

Okay Mike thanks. I will leave it at that.

[RevidgeBlue]

Back on the Board after the international break and first thread I came across was this one which is not exactly new news and could easily be labelled "Tell us something else we don't know."

I can't actually believe that people are aghast that the financial situation looks dire with little external income and people boycotting en masse! You couldn't make it up. Although I don't agree with it I understand why people might want to make a principled stance to stay away but please then don't get holier than thou about the finances!. You can't have it both ways. Furthermore as we're still losing 1m per month I can't see that further cuts for next season, however unwelcome, would be any major surprise.

Mike, well done on boasting about saving £600 for next season you and your dad could have contributed to Club funds. I hope you're very proud of yourself and enjoy the money. 

Excellent contributions on this thread from Parson as always and Rover Canada in particular debunking much of the sensationalism with some cold hard facts.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Back on the Board after the international break and first thread I came across was this one which is not exactly new news and could easily be labelled "Tell us something else we don't know."

I can't actually believe that people are aghast that the financial situation looks dire with little external income and people boycotting en masse! You couldn't make it up. Although I don't agree with it I understand why people might want to make a principled stance to stay away but please then don't get holier than thou about the finances!. You can't have it both ways. Furthermore as we're still losing 1m per month I can't see that further cuts for next season, however unwelcome, would be any major surprise.

Mike, well done on boasting about saving £600 for next season you and your dad could have contributed to Club funds. I hope you're very proud of yourself and enjoy the money. 

Excellent contributions on this thread from Parson as always and Rover Canada in particular debunking much of the sensationalism with some cold hard facts.

That's great but sustainable club, what do you think Rev?

[tomphil]

9 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Back on the Board after the international break and first thread I came across was this one which is not exactly new news and could easily be labelled "Tell us something else we don't know."

I can't actually believe that people are aghast that the financial situation looks dire with little external income and people boycotting en masse! You couldn't make it up. Although I don't agree with it I understand why people might want to make a principled stance to stay away but please then don't get holier than thou about the finances!. You can't have it both ways. Furthermore as we're still losing 1m per month I can't see that further cuts for next season, however unwelcome, would be any major surprise.

Mike, well done on boasting about saving £600 for next season you and your dad could have contributed to Club funds. I hope you're very proud of yourself and enjoy the money. 

Excellent contributions on this thread from Parson as always and Rover Canada in particular debunking much of the sensationalism with some cold hard facts.

The finances were a mess within months of Venkys and co turning up. That you might remember was when we had 20k+ averages and Prem league tv income followed by 50 million income of parachute money etc.

Only one who comes across holier than thou in your post.

[RoverCanada]

21 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Good to see someone questioning the figures Dunn FC comes out with. They always appear pretty random.

On the highlighted para I'm not sure if the pay-offs to past players are still included in the current wage bill. Cheston said in one of his recent interviews with the LT (last 12 months) that historical pay-offs were still happening. I'd also imagine the likes of Graham are on pretty decent money for a team in the bottom 3 of ther Championship who are £120m in debt.

Yeah there's been some one-off costs for onerous contracts put into the past accounts. The 2014 accounts put this at £6.4M, which was apparently all paid up by the end of 2015. 2014 also included a one-off £3.3M impairment of intangible fixed assets due to reviewing our assets after repeatedly failing to get promoted. But I wonder about the timing of all the different payoffs that have gone on. That £6.4M may have been a provision for the likes of Goodwillie, Etuhu, Campbell, Marrow, Slew, Orr, Best, and Kean, who were all paid off across 2014 and 2015.

However, I remember Shaw randomly mentioning in an LT interview (I forget when exactly, maybe 2015?) how we were still paying off Givet and Vukcevic, who left back in 2013. Just spitballing some numbers here, but suppose both were on £25k/week with three years left, so ~£7.8M total. Givet went back to Ligue 2, so say we agreed to still cover £15k/wk of his wages to facilitate that. £1.6M of savings overall, but we'd still be paying him ~£800k/year until 2016 (or maybe even until later at a lower yearly rate). Maybe that's included in those onerous contract provisions or maybe it had already been included as an ongoing wage expense before those 2014 accounting arrangements. Vukcevic was straight up released, so perhaps we were still paying him, say, £20k/week until this year. The likes of Murphy and Gomes were paid off in the summer of 2013 but we can't really know how those payoffs entered into the accounts (I haven't thoroughly gone through all the different accounts to check!). I'm not an accountant, so I can't speak with authority on any of this (and I'd welcome any accountant to correct me!)

In sum, hence why I wish some journalist would try and nail down how exactly our wage bill was still at £25M last year (which to be fair still included some of Rhodes' wages, plus Duffy, Hanley, Kilgallon, etc.) and is 9th in the league this year (going by previous years wages across the Championship, that would put us at about £20M still when we really need to get it down to £15M-ish like Ipswich or Birmingham). The likes of Lowe and Henley may still be on absurd wages as a hangover from the PL days, but if all our payoffs are really done with I think the real outrage is if we've spent stupid amounts on players we've signed in the past couple years like Graham, Mulgrew, Bennett, Ward, Stokes, etc. Even if some of those players have had their moments, it'd show a real lack of foresight of our wage decisions against our tumbling revenue. It may have been part of a half-assed attempt to keep us competitive, but this was torpedoed by having a clown like Coyle in charge.

[davefarnworth]

No following on the Brighton thread. Guess Thursday's meeting finally knocked the stuffing out of long-suffering posters. I haven't been this season for first time ever. Like Mowbray, hate Venkys and the club (due to India-motivated shysters).  Still believe we'll stay up (just) but next season..? 

[Mike E]

23 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Mike, well done on boasting about saving £600 for next season you and your dad could have contributed to Club funds. I hope you're very proud of yourself and enjoy the money. 

You think I'm boasting? I don't boast about saving money.

I'll gladly boast that my Dad wants us to spend time together before cancer kills him in a couple of years. Unfortunately he isn't getting that enjoyment out of Rovers anymore.

Sorry if you think I'm being unreasonable by putting my family first. I thought you were better than that. Stop presuming other people's business.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The Venkys are to blame for our dire financial situation Rev,mismanagement on a scale not seen before at Ewood...not the suffering Supporters.

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Back on the Board after the international break and first thread I came across was this one which is not exactly new news and could easily be labelled "Tell us something else we don't know."

I can't actually believe that people are aghast that the financial situation looks dire with little external income and people boycotting en masse! You couldn't make it up. Although I don't agree with it I understand why people might want to make a principled stance to stay away but please then don't get holier than thou about the finances!. You can't have it both ways. Furthermore as we're still losing 1m per month I can't see that further cuts for next season, however unwelcome, would be any major surprise.

Mike, well done on boasting about saving £600 for next season you and your dad could have contributed to Club funds. I hope you're very proud of yourself and enjoy the money. 

Excellent contributions on this thread from Parson as always and Rover Canada in particular debunking much of the sensationalism with some cold hard facts.

"People are scaremongering, Venkys are supporting club and covering the losses"

"It's all tinfoil hat nonsense. Venkys won't let the club fail they won't get their money back"

"There's no proof of any of these claims it's all bullocks"

 

[We get an actual admission of the scale of the problem and it's still an excuse to have a go at the fans]

 

"We already know this, I can't believe people are aghast"

Christ, Rev, you are something else. You've really not been missed.

Venkys have bent this club over and done us several times over, sending it and it's fans to hell in a handcart - and you are taking pot shots at Mike and his Dad? @#/? hell.  

Fans like you are the reason we are stuck with Venkys. I hope you are proud.

Doesn't feel nice does it?

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

You think I'm boasting? I don't boast about saving money.

I'll gladly boast that my Dad wants us to spend time together before cancer kills him in a couple of years. Unfortunately he isn't getting that enjoyment out of Rovers anymore.

Sorry if you think I'm being unreasonable by putting my family first. I thought you were better than that. Stop presuming other people's business.

Bang out of order that he's come out with that, Mike. You and I don't always see eye to eye but you deserve a hell of a lot more respect than you've been getting of late.  

[broadsword]

RevidgeBlue always to be blaming boycotting fans for the debt hole we're in. 

Jesus, I had no idea people spent that much on Match day. Do fans normally bulk buy programs and pies on a Saturday then? I honestly had no idea

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, broadsword said:

RevidgeBlue always to be blaming boycotting fans for the debt hole we're in. 

Jesus, I had no idea people spent that much on Match day. Do fans normally bulk buy programs and pies on a Saturday then? I honestly had no idea

History shows that even without the Venky factor crowds wouldn't be a right lot higher for the position we are in. With the odd exception when clubs of Rovers ilk are struggling in the second tier the crowds are a lot fewer it's just football,

We should have 12k turning up every week but it's 9 or 10k allegedly. That's not going to make much difference at all to the finances in the grand scheme of things particularly when those running it keep hiring and paying off managers and coaches that should be nowhere near the club and wasting what little money it generates anyway. Steve Kean and Jerome Anderson plus friends poured the entire parachute money plus interest down the toilet putting the finances 3/4 down the road to the state they're in now and that was sod all to do with how many fans come or don't.

 

[DE.]

4 hours ago, Mike E said:

You think I'm boasting? I don't boast about saving money.

I'll gladly boast that my Dad wants us to spend time together before cancer kills him in a couple of years. Unfortunately he isn't getting that enjoyment out of Rovers anymore.

Sorry if you think I'm being unreasonable by putting my family first. I thought you were better than that. Stop presuming other people's business.

To be honest, such a ridiculous post didn't even deserve a reply. "£600 towards club funds" ffs. Yeah, that'll help plug the gaping black hole that is our finances. The stark reality is that even if Ewood Park was packed out every single week it wouldn't make any worthwhile difference to the club's finances. If anybody thinks it would then you clearly don't understand how much money is being thrown into the void each and every week. 

[JonnyP]

On 1 April 2017 at 10:52 PM, DE. said:

To be honest, such a ridiculous post didn't even deserve a reply. "£600 towards club funds" ffs. Yeah, that'll help plug the gaping black hole that is our finances. The stark reality is that even if Ewood Park was packed out every single week it wouldn't make any worthwhile difference to the club's finances. If anybody thinks it would then you clearly don't understand how much money is being thrown into the void each and every week. 

I disagree if rovers were selling out each week it would make the club a lot more attractive to possible sponcers, investors and the money generated from tickets, merchandise and food would definitely help keep the club afloat. It may not fix the finances but it might help attract other options and give the impression that rovers is worth investing in.

there clearly isn't a local billionaire who cares enough to buy the club who wears his heart on his sleeve that would take the risk on buying rovers because the club means something to them. It's going to have to be an outside investor and he's not going to make an emotional decision it's going to come down to numbers and potential. Even when Leeds dropped to L1 they managed to average in 07/08 26k, 08/09 22k and 09/10 23k. For an outside investor that is an attractive prospect if managed properly.

If you look at any club in the top 6 in the championship at the moment they are averaging at least 17-18k minimum. I standby the opinion that if Rovers are going to get out of this mess the club needs to attract a new owner for definite, but I doubt any1 will buy us when we average 11-12k a game because it's way to much of a risk especially when we already have massive financial problems.

I think that boycotters believe that if we squeeze Venkies that much that they have to sell up there will be a line out the gate of possible investors ready to buy the club. I really have my doubts about that and whether any1 will be there to bail us out.

 

[JBiz]

Just now, JonnyP said:

I disagree if rovers were selling out each week it would make the club a lot more attractive to possible sponcers, investors and the money generated from tickets, merchandise and food would definitely help keep the club afloat. It may not fix the finances but it might help attract other options and give the impression that rovers is worth investing in.

there clearly isn't a local billionaire who cares enough to buy the club who wears his heart on his sleeve that would take the risk on buying rovers because the club means something to them. It's going to have to be an outside investor and he's not going to make an emotional decision it's going to come down to numbers and potential. Even when Leeds dropped to L1 they managed to average in 07/08 26k, 08/09 22k and 09/10 23k. For an outside investor that is an attractive prospect if managed properly.

If you look at any club in the top 6 in the championship at the moment they are averaging at least 17-18k minimum. I standby the opinion that if Rovers are going to get out of this mess the club needs to attract a new owner for definite, but I doubt any1 will buy us when we average 11-12k a game because it's way to much of a risk especially when we already have massive financial problems.

I think that boycotters believe that if we squeeze Venkies that much that they have to sell up there will be a line out the gate of possible investors ready to buy the club. I really have my doubts about that and whether any1 will be there to bail us out.

 

Always a side of the coin that's forgotten to be mentioned! 

Still, to this day - the idea of absolutely filling the ground in a defiant one off will give us more chance of finding the "miracle". Imo of course. I know it's very unlikely that it would open their (Raos) eyes but it's how it presents us to others who see potential in putting us back on our feet.

The debt is strangling, the income/turnover is bleak! The irony of that, whilst we may be close to an abyss, we could still only be two years away from wiping the slate clean, even with relegation to league 1! That's how lucrative the top tier is.

We aren't quite in the situation of Bolton/Coventry - we own our facilities, and have a high standard. While this might be a bit of a ball and chain with this turnover, a show of defiance and appetite from the fan base could reinvigorate our owners (ha, very very unlikely!) or more likely open someone's eyes who can get in the Raos ears.

Starving them out could be a way to get rid of them, but the knock on impact of it may be even more lasting or permanent damage.

Going back in numbers has no negative impact on the club. I can empathise with people who see some sort of moral obligation but I have no time for those who dress up non attendance as out of principal, as opposed to interest! 

[JonnyP]

Just an interesting fact we are rock bottom of the % full stadium with an average of 38% of the seats in Ewood being filled this season so far and when u look at other teams (Brighton and Wednesday) with a similar stadium capacity to us they have on average doubled our attendance for the year. This has to be a massive factor. People expect someone to put their hands in their pockets for 38% you can forget about it.

I would love someone to give me a good reason why someone would want to buy us.

http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england2

[JBiz]

Just now, JonnyP said:

Just an interesting fact we are rock bottom of the % full stadium with an average of 38% of the seats in Ewood being filled this season so far and when u look at other teams (Brighton and Wednesday) with a similar stadium capacity to us they have on average doubled our attendance for the year. This has to be a massive factor. People expect someone to put their hands in their pockets for 38% you can forget about it.

I would love someone to give me a good reason why someone would want to buy us.

http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england2

As I said, facilities alone stand above nearly all the league so a turnover enough to pay for that and a competitive squad in this league would put us on many investors trajectorys.

Problem is, we'd need to go back to 99/01 level gates in this league to improve sponsorship, corporate etc to get us near that. 

 

[47er]

Just now, JonnyP said:

Just an interesting fact we are rock bottom of the % full stadium with an average of 38% of the seats in Ewood being filled this season so far and when u look at other teams (Brighton and Wednesday) with a similar stadium capacity to us they have on average doubled our attendance for the year. This has to be a massive factor. People expect someone to put their hands in their pockets for 38% you can forget about it.

I would love someone to give me a good reason why someone would want to buy us.

http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.asp?league=england2

If someone who loved the club or even just knew its history had the chance and the funds they would do so knowing they could turn the attendance figures around.

Anyway, attendances don't matter so much once you get in the Premier League, they take care of themselves and are dwarfed by TV money and other sponsorship.

If you can't believe that then you must believe you are stuck with Venkys forever.

And people call ME pessimistic!