[Archived] Unsustainable Rovers

[47er]

14 minutes ago, JonnyP said:

there clearly isn't a local billionaire who cares enough to buy the club who wears his heart on his sleeve that would take the risk on buying rovers because the club means something to them

I don't think you can blame the lack of  enthusiasm of local billionaires!

Nobody is going to pay off Venkys absurd debt levels.

Only when Venkys accept this cannot go on any longer will Rovers change hands. After Administration probably.

[JonnyP]

Just now, Jbizzle said:

As I said, facilities alone stand above nearly all the league so a turnover enough to pay for that and a competitive squad in this league would put us on many investors trajectorys.

Problem is, we'd need to go back to 99/01 level gates in this league to improve sponsorship, corporate etc to get us near that. 

 

It just frustrates me that people are boycotting in a refusal to "line Venkies pockets". Imo I believe it's about giving an impression that Rovers are worth investing in. I want Venkies out as much as anyone else does but how it happens is very important and it seems some are gambling that someone is going to catch us from falling off the cliff, I don't think there will be anyone there.

[JBiz]

Just now, JonnyP said:

It just frustrates me that people are boycotting in a refusal to "line Venkies pockets". Imo I believe it's about giving an impression that Rovers are worth investing in. I want Venkies out as much as anyone else does but how it happens is very important and it seems some are gambling that someone is going to catch us from falling off the cliff, I don't think there will be anyone there.

If there is credence in suggestion of a more grave recent need for money - i.e. Borrowing at unusual rates, mortgaging season tickets - the idea to starve them of money (total boycott) could likely just see us sell our ground, facilities, close the academy- since there's not much left in the playing squad to cover the holes like previous summers.

Thats not blaming fans, that's being open to reality. Who cares who's fault it would be anyway? The real thing to care about is keeping  the parts of Jacks legacy that they haven't completely screwed up YET!

[JonnyP]

Just now, 47er said:

I don't think you can blame the lack of  enthusiasm of local billionaires!

Nobody is going to pay off Venkys absurd debt levels.

Only when Venkys accept this cannot go on any longer will Rovers change hands. After Administration probably.

No I can't blame them at all your dead right.

but I do believe if the club had preceived potential that our ability to recover when they do decide to part ways would be far greater. I'm not suggesting that filling the stadium each week will fix the problem but I do believe it will provide a preceived potential which will become incredibly important sooner rather than later when we look for a replacement.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, JonnyP said:

It just frustrates me that people are boycotting in a refusal to "line Venkies pockets". Imo I believe it's about giving an impression that Rovers are worth investing in. I want Venkies out as much as anyone else does but how it happens is very important and it seems some are gambling that someone is going to catch us from falling off the cliff, I don't think there will be anyone there.

Spot on. Whenever anyone says to me they're not going again until Venky's leave I have to bite my tongue as everyone is entitled to their opinion but the obvious response is "You'll be bloody lucky if there's anything to go back to by the time you get round to it."

As for anyone saving us, the only people who have shown any remote interest in taking over appear to be circling like vultures waiting for us to fail first so they can then pick us up at a steal as  opposed to coming in now because we need help.

Jack Walker didn't think "I'll wait and let us drop down another division before I get involved then I'll get the Club even cheaper." He got involved when he saw the Club needed help, funding the purchases of Livingstone Mimms and Dobson to stave off the threat of relegation to the third tier prior to taking the Club over at a later date.

Unfortunately now with the debt levels that have accrued over 6 years of mismanagement there doesn't seem to be anyone willing or able to take us on for the love of it as opposed to hoping to pick up a potential bargain in investment terms at some subsequent point down the line.

[47er]

Attendances won't improve while Venkys are here. In fact they will continue to drop in line with the club's performance at all levels.

No point at all in bewailing that because it will not change.

And Rev, Jack didn't buy us when we were over £100m in debt did he? Nor would he. He loved Rovers but he wasn't that daft.

If you think the answer to our problems is to carry on doing the same thing, well good luck with that.

 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

On 01/04/2017 at 8:40 PM, broadsword said:

RevidgeBlue always to be blaming boycotting fans for the debt hole we're in. 

Jesus, I had no idea people spent that much on Match day. Do fans normally bulk buy programs and pies on a Saturday then? I honestly had no idea

I have been known to buy bulk pies in the past,Levers of Ewood have a lot to answer for...

The shame of it

[AllRoverAsia]

Fill Ewood with STs all paying JW UC full prices and its still a pliss in the ocean of the debt and running costs.

Having to go to short term high interest loans maybe a strategy when their unaffordability becomes a reason for selling the 'unsellable' fixed assets.

Unless Venkys take the debt hit and sell the only way back is promotion back to the PL gravy train.

[JonnyP]

Just now, 47er said:

Attendances won't improve while Venkys are here. In fact they will continue to drop in line with the club's performance at all levels.

No point at all in bewailing that because it will not change.

And Rev, Jack didn't buy us when we were over £100m in debt did he? Nor would he. He loved Rovers but he wasn't that daft.

If you think the answer to our problems is to carry on doing the same thing, well good luck with that.

 

Filling the stands, getting behind the team and players and presenting ourselves as a club that has preceived potential with United fans would not be doing the same thing. 

[JonnyP]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

Fill Ewood with STs all paying JW UC full prices and its still a pliss in the ocean of the debt and running costs.

Having to go to short term high interest loans maybe a strategy when their unaffordability becomes a reason for selling the 'unsellable'

If you read what was said I don't think it will fix the financial problem but it might attract a potential investors who look at the club n think they still have a good fan base considering how bad it's been managed. This might have a bit of potential worth investing in. At the moment we look like a club with no potential and no real fan base

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, JonnyP said:

If you read what was said I don't think it will fix the financial problem but it might attract a potential investors who look at the club n think they still have a good fan base considering how bad it's been managed. This might have a bit of potential worth investing in. At the moment we look like a club with no potential and no real fan base

100% correct. If you were a potential investor in the Club what would you pay more attention to? The fact the ground is two thirds empty or the fact that many people claim they'll be back when Venky's leave? (When in reality many will have got into the habit of doing other things with their time on match day.)

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, JonnyP said:

If you read what was said I don't think it will fix the financial problem but it might attract a potential investors who look at the club n think they still have a good fan base considering how bad it's been managed. This might have a bit of potential worth investing in. At the moment we look like a club with no potential and no real fan base

Gates will only improve substantially if we are competing for promotion out of the Championship and achieve it. It needs NAPM boycotters and those who have just given up to return enmass and that is not going to happen without success on the grass and Venkys leaving.

[DE.]

14 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Jack Walker didn't think "I'll wait and let us drop down another division before I get involved then I'll get the Club even cheaper." He got involved when he saw the Club needed help, funding the purchases of Livingstone Mimms and Dobson to stave off the threat of relegation to the third tier prior to taking the Club over at a later date.

Funnily enough, with Venky's absolutely refusing to sell (as you well know), Seneca basically agreed to do exactly this - fund operations and transfers for three years in exchange for majority stake at the club. As with every other offer that's been put their way, they remained silent and then had the audacity to claim there had never been an offer.

Jack Walker himself would have gotten no response from Venky's. If you have a way to open Venky's for talks on selling the club that doesn't involve throwing so much money at them there would be nothing left to run the club, I'm sure would-be investors would gladly listen. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, DE. said:

Funnily enough, with Venky's absolutely refusing to sell (as you well know), Seneca basically agreed to do exactly this - fund operations and transfers for three years in exchange for majority stake at the club. As with every other offer that's been put their way, they remained silent and then had the audacity to claim there had never been an offer.

Jack Walker himself would have gotten no response from Venky's. If you have a way to open Venky's for talks on selling the club that doesn't involve throwing so much money at them there would be nothing left to run the club, I'm sure would-be investors would gladly listen. 

I knew someone would claim that. Seneca did nothing of the sort. Their proposal was a completely unrealistic "Hand us over control of the Club and you continue to pay the bills."

Jack funded the purchase of the players I've mentioned with no strings attached other than maybe an understanding that he would purchase the Club outright when he was able. He then at a later date paid the going rate for the outright purchase of the Club.

To liken Seneca' s approach to Jack is the ultimate insult to the great man.

[K-Hod]

33 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Spot on. Whenever anyone says to me they're not going again until Venky's leave I have to bite my tongue as everyone is entitled to their opinion but the obvious response is "You'll be bloody lucky if there's anything to go back to by the time you get round to it."

As for anyone saving us, the only people who have shown any remote interest in taking over appear to be circling like vultures waiting for us to fail first so they can then pick us up at a steal as  opposed to coming in now because we need help.

Jack Walker didn't think "I'll wait and let us drop down another division before I get involved then I'll get the Club even cheaper." He got involved when he saw the Club needed help, funding the purchases of Livingstone Mimms and Dobson to stave off the threat of relegation to the third tier prior to taking the Club over at a later date.

Unfortunately now with the debt levels that have accrued over 6 years of mismanagement there doesn't seem to be anyone willing or able to take us on for the love of it as opposed to hoping to pick up a potential bargain in investment terms at some subsequent point down the line.

The problem with the bit in bold is that there has been interest, from Seneca at the very least and Venky's have rebuffed all efforts to discuss any sale.

Even if there was a top Blackburn lad with loads of cash and good intentions, Venky's probably wouldn't answer the call.......

 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, K-Hod said:

The problem with the bit in bold is that there has been interest, from Seneca at the very least and Venky's have rebuffed all efforts to discuss anything.

 

It's a fair point to make that Venky's have rebuffed any interest to date but it depends whether you view any of it as realistic. I wouldn't. 

Was it TBTF who claimed on here that Venky's price for an outright sale would be 62m? Fair enough you'd have to be either insane or a Rovers nut with several hundred million pounds of liquid cash you were prepared to lose to pay that but I would wager an approach along those lines wouldn't be rebuffed.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

I knew someone would claim that. Seneca did nothing of the sort. Their proposal was a completely unrealistic "Hand us over control of the Club and you continue to pay the bills."

Jack funded the purchase of the players I've mentioned with no strings attached other than maybe an understanding that he would purchase the Club outright when he was able. He then at a later date paid the going rate for the outright purchase of the Club.

To liken Seneca' s approach to Jack is the ultimate insult to the great man.

Does anyond have the real details of the Senecca offer as a link?

It wasn't that highlighted above.

[Neil Weaver]

17 minutes ago, DE. said:

Funnily enough, with Venky's absolutely refusing to sell (as you well know), Seneca basically agreed to do exactly this - fund operations and transfers for three years in exchange for majority stake at the club. As with every other offer that's been put their way, they remained silent and then had the audacity to claim there had never been an offer.

Jack Walker himself would have gotten no response from Venky's. If you have a way to open Venky's for talks on selling the club that doesn't involve throwing so much money at them there would be nothing left to run the club, I'm sure would-be investors would gladly listen. 

Exactly DE.  I see it's time for the regular parallel universe discussion of 'a full stadium would attract investors'.  It simply isn't true, and it hasn't been every other time for the past x years.

Glad to see that Rev has the inside track that Seneca's bid was a red herring anyway.  He'll know best.  Wasn't it mentioned live by one of the Ian's on Radio Lancs (sorry ARA I don't have a link but it'll be somewhere on here a couple of years ago)?

 

[DE.]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/14497858.Supporters_group_backing_Seneca_Partners__proposal_to_Blackburn_Rovers_owners_Venky_s/

Not sure what proposal Rev has seen, but it wasn't the same as this one.

[AllRoverAsia]

6 minutes ago, DE. said:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/14497858.Supporters_group_backing_Seneca_Partners__proposal_to_Blackburn_Rovers_owners_Venky_s/

Not sure what proposal Rev has seen, but it wasn't the same as this one.

or this 

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/northwest/trust-backs-blackburn-rovers-proposal

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

or this 

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/northwest/trust-backs-blackburn-rovers-proposal

Capital investment for 51%.

Its not difficult to see why they would turn that down. Kiss goodbye to the controlling stake and a huge chunk of something that's cost you 150m, for nothing but some investment and the hope you will be paid for the rest later.

Why would they accept? Of course it looked a no brainer for fans, but they aren't fans! Why give up control of something you spent a tonne on and are still partially liable for.

If they didn't want to entertain potential new sponsors or a sale, why did they move the cameras? 

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Spot on. Whenever anyone says to me they're not going again until Venky's leave I have to bite my tongue as everyone is entitled to their opinion but the obvious response is "You'll be bloody lucky if there's anything to go back to by the time you get round to it."

As for anyone saving us, the only people who have shown any remote interest in taking over appear to be circling like vultures waiting for us to fail first so they can then pick us up at a steal as  opposed to coming in now because we need help.

Jack Walker didn't think "I'll wait and let us drop down another division before I get involved then I'll get the Club even cheaper." He got involved when he saw the Club needed help, funding the purchases of Livingstone Mimms and Dobson to stave off the threat of relegation to the third tier prior to taking the Club over at a later date.

Unfortunately now with the debt levels that have accrued over 6 years of mismanagement there doesn't seem to be anyone willing or able to take us on for the love of it as opposed to hoping to pick up a potential bargain in investment terms at some subsequent point down the line.

Not even Jack himself would give Venkys their money back and take on the debt that they have saddled is with. Only an idiot would do that.

What he would have done is been first in to speak to the administrator to keep us alive.

Unreal that you would think anyone would step in right now - even if Venkys would deal with them. Unless you know any middle- or far-east types with more money than brain cells.

Our problem is not having someone to take us on, it's how long Venkys are going to keep hold of us - out of pure spite - and how far we will have fallen.

Hopefully this Summer will see them forced to show their hand. Nobody at Ewood can morally continue to sign the club up for more unsustainable debt. How long before their wages and careers are under threat?

[JBiz]

Just now, Stuart said:

Our problem is not having someone to take us on, it's how long Venkys are going to keep hold of us - 

Both are problems if you can see past the end of your nose, which admittedly is much harder for Barry Snozalow's like me. 

[Stuart]

Just now, Jbizzle said:

Capital investment for 51%.

Its not difficult to see why they would turn that down. Kiss goodbye to the controlling stake and a huge chunk of something that's cost you 150m, for nothing but some investment and the hope you will be paid for the rest later.

Why would they accept? Of course it looked a no brainer for fans, but they aren't fans! Why give up control of something you spent a tonne on and are still partially liable for.

If they didn't want to entertain potential new sponsors or a sale, why did they move the cameras? 

Because it would stop them losing money? Any normal business person who had got themselves into such a massive hole, with no way out, would be looking to cut their losses and avoid major reputations like damage.

But this lot are happy to take the reputational hit by doing what they always do - keeping their heads down - meanwhile turning of the taps and watch it rot, rather than hand over control - even as a 49% shareholder. They have no idea what they are doing but are so arrogant our demise is preferable to them accepting help.

And they have the cheek to talk about loss of face! They don't have credibility, pride, or honour.

[broadsword]

How dare interested parties wait until they can buy us when we come out of admin.

They should do the decent thing and buy us from ownbers who refuse to sell, and take on £120m of bets. Wow, freudian slip there, I meant debts. Where did that come from?

Makes sense, that does.