[Archived] Brfcc.. A new start?

[gumboots]

I won't use the other site. I'd get banned for disagreeing with Gordon about just about everything. I don't agree with much around here anyway as we seem to be slowly sliding into get behind the lads, so most of the time I read, and like a good little girl, keep quiet. I might not use Abbeys language but I agree with a lot of his sentiments re Rovers. I don't care if Mowbray can walk on water. It's all useless till Venky's go.

[chaddyrovers]

I've had a look at the site. Nice site but not for me. 

 

[Glenn]

Just now, gumboots said:

 seem to be slowly sliding into get behind the lads, so most of the time I read, and like a good little girl, keep quiet. 

Whilst not directly specificly at you Gumboots, this does highlight one of my biggest bugbears with online communities ..... people seem to have this perception that 'a site' has a single view an opinions go in a single direction. 

I've lost count of the time that people have had a go at me about 'what BRFCS thinks'. It not a gestalt entity, it's a collection of different people with different views. 

Sure, some sites are set up to promote certain agendas and certain editorial team allow their own views to dominate, but I've always prided myself of letting everyone have a voice, often defending and championing those whose views I personally find repugnant it the name of balance. 

So, if you think you own view is under represented, speak up. Debate is the lifeblood of any forum, all we ask is people do it civily, rather than let it degenerate into name calling

[Gav]

6 minutes ago, gumboots said:

I won't use the other site. I'd get banned for disagreeing with Gordon. I don't agree with much around here anyway as we seem to be slowly sliding into get behind the lads, so most of the time I read, and like a good little girl, keep quiet. I might not use Abbeys language but I agree with a lot of his sentiments re Rovers. I don't care if Mowbray can walk on water. It's all useless till Venky's go.

Plenty of room for both sites gumboots and you're right about TM/Venkys.

This site will improve no end once the same people posting under duplicate accounts issue is sorted out, until then it's more of a watching brief as the place is quickly turning into the official site in disguise, perish the thought.

[blueboy3333]

'Tolerant? Why not just arrange a 'meeting' last day of the season on the gypsy car park?..... and kick their bloody heads in! If you see one on a zimmer frame wearing carpet slippers that smell of @#/? don't anyone touch him... he's mine!'

A post on the other site about this site. I think the poster was joking, made me chuckle anyway, but it reminded me of the film Anchorman when all the news teams meet up for a fight. Perhaps Roverstalk and Roversmad could join in? 

[Tom]

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Gav said:

This site will improve no end once the same people posting under duplicate accounts issue is sorted out, until then it's more of a watching brief as the place is quickly turning into the official site in disguise, perish the thought.

Fake news, Donald. 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

45 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I've had a look at the site. Nice site but not for me. 

 

Is that a protest or a boycott? 

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

Plenty of room for both sites gumboots and you're right about TM/Venkys.

This site will improve no end once the same people posting under duplicate accounts issue is sorted out, until then it's more of a watching brief as the place is quickly turning into the official site in disguise, perish the thought.

It's inevitable that the biggest Rovers site will become the unofficial official board Gav - but only for seasoned posters (if I'm allowed to use that phrase ).

However, with Facebook becoming the media of choice for 'smart'phone users, "TheRovers" is quickly becoming the biggest fansite. "Topics" on there can attract hundreds of 'likes' and comments. Ironic that the modding standards on Fb are far more lax than here and yet there are children posting regularly on there - rather than the silver surfers on here.

Bit daft really that we've split into two sites but the blame for that has to go down to over-modding, or rather sub-admin on here, possibly down to the mice believing there was a rat problem while the cats were away. I know people don't like talking politics but if you attempt to silence views that upset left-wing sensibilities then you simply force them to take their voices elsewhere. "Good!", I hear them cry. But is it? 'They' don't go away, 'they' don't change their minds and we have yet more splintering of the fanbase. Still at least there is now a group to point the finger at for all of this site's (former?) ills.

Were (are) Abbey's views on Venkys really so out of kilter with the majority feeling of the site? (Even if it was only 51% ). Have any of his detractors ANY idea of how much Venkys and him being forced into self-exile is hurting him? No, you just saw a shouty bloke getting frustrated with clappy happers and have decided he was the problem.

Let's see how things pan out but the other site is likely to become the hip, off-off-broadway site that BRFCS used to be compared to the erstwhile official board.

[Glenn]

26 minutes ago, Gav said:

 

This site will improve no end once the same people posting under duplicate accounts issue is sorted out, until then it's more of a watching brief as the place is quickly turning into the official site in disguise, perish the thought.

I've been looking into that since you first raised it and I can't see any proof (yet). Though I do have one suspect.

Saldy it's it not as easy as it once was. We used to have a system I write for dectecting dupes (called bandit) that worked very very well, but sadly in these days of multiple devices, incognito sessions, anonymous proxies and vpns, it's much trickier to prove than it once was

but everyone slips up eventually (though I do think the number of occurrences of this are tiny).

 

 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, Tom said:

I watched Life of Brian for the first time ever last night. Strange timing to post that scene, given that last night is the first time I'd ever seen it!

I fell asleep shortly after... 

[K-Hod]

Those Rovers Facebook groups are absolutely cringeworthy in the main. I proper can't cope with them. Like watching David Brent doing the chicken dance on repeat....

[Gav]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

Fake news, Donald. 

 

As if by magic 

Play the ball not the man or you'll be getting yourself another ban (Poetic)

36 minutes ago, Glenn said:

I've been looking into that since you first raised it and I can't see any proof (yet). Though I do have one suspect.

Saldy it's it not as easy as it once was. We used to have a system I write for dectecting dupes (called bandit) that worked very very well, but sadly in these days of multiple devices, incognito sessions, anonymous proxies and vpns, it's much trickier to prove than it once was

but everyone slips up eventually (though I do think the number of occurrences of this are tiny).

 

 

You don't need bits of software to identify the culprits, just use the old fashioned spelling and punctuation slips, especially in heated debate when they've not had chance to run the reply through Word

I've seen them come and go over the years, this time will be no different Glenn, because if you're a sad **** who likes to post under different names you've got a screw loose, and its only a matter of time before that screw unwinds again and then its games over.

As for the bans and the other site, I do feel we had an orchestrated movement a month or so ago that tried to target seasoned posters on here, its was a blatant as night and day, but it failed to remove many of us and rightly so. The banning for the Brexit stuff I can't comment on because I never read it, but as an outsider looking in it seems harsh, but its done now and they've all moved on.

I've been on here for 20yrs, I helped pay to keep the site going in the bad times and used it through the good times, nobody is going to force me off here by hiding behind duplicate accounts and moaning to themselves in dispatches.

Now back to the relegation battle.

 

 

[Glenn]

3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

It's inevitable that the biggest Rovers site will become the unofficial official board Gav - but only for seasoned posters (if I'm allowed to use that phrase ).

However, with Facebook becoming the media of choice for 'smart'phone users, "TheRovers" is quickly becoming the biggest fansite. "Topics" on there can attract hundreds of 'likes' and comments. Ironic that the modding standards on Fb are far more lax than here and yet there are children posting regularly on there - rather than the silver surfers on here.

Bit daft really that we've split into two sites but the blame for that has to go down to over-modding, or rather sub-admin on here, possibly down to the mice believing there was a rat problem while the cats were away. I know people don't like talking politics but if you attempt to silence views that upset left-wing sensibilities then you simply force them to take their voices elsewhere. "Good!", I hear them cry. But is it? 'They' don't go away, 'they' don't change their minds and we have yet more splintering of the fanbase. Still at least there is now a group to point the finger at for all of this site's (former?) ills.

Were (are) Abbey's views on Venkys really so out of kilter with the majority feeling of the site? (Even if it was only 51% ). Have any of his detractors ANY idea of how much Venkys and him being forced into self-exile is hurting him? No, you just saw a shouty bloke getting frustrated with clappy happers and have decided he was the problem.

Let's see how things pan out but the other site is likely to become the hip, off-off-broadway site that BRFCS used to be compared to the erstwhile official board.

Personally, for me, it was never about being the biggest, it was simply about being the best. That's why we used to put so much effort into the community stuff and not the forum. Sadly I've spent years now trying to find somebody who wanted to take over the site that *got* that, but everyone always kept coming back to the forum (bar a couple of exceptions that fell through for other reasons). Thankfully a change in my day job means I now have time (and less of a conflict of interests, as I'm no longer involved with forums / social media / moderation etc) to take control again. So getting the forums back under control is just the first step in a long term plan.  Had I changed jobs a month earlier (or if I'd listen to Biddy, who tried to warn me, but I missed his pleas to come back), things may have been different, but I have to work with that I have and the fact the things seem so much better around here, I'll take as a bonus for now.

One thing I can now openly take about a lot more is Facebook. It's a dreadful place for discussions and massively distorts the true opinions. This is because of their Bozo-Filtering and their story/post weightings. Facebook "feels" less moderated because of Bozo-Filtering, which means when a post of yours is removed, it is still visible to you and your "friends", which means not only do you think people are still reading your posts, but you "won" because everyone you know has stopped arguing with you. Additionally The EdgeRank system Facebook uses tends to prioritse posts you might "like" which heavily favours things you agree with, creating even more of an echo chamber. Finally, it's poor threading and lack of ability to keep track with it means it leads to a situation where discussions don't "flow", everyone talks and nobody listens. In short, Facebook is a place to shout and preach, not to debate.

On over-modding, I take the blame on that, partly because I wrote the original guidelines and those years ago and mainly for being absent for so long. However, when I came back, I spent three entire evenings reviewing every current ban in place and every moderated post this year ... and you know what .... I think they had is *mostly * spot on. A couple of recent bans that had already been revoked under review/protest, but other than that, it was pretty spot on. However, I'm sure people think we ban a LOT more that we actually do (I believe only 2 of the regular posters on RoversFans are technically banned, both of which actually admit it was warranted and one of which came back under an alias for a while with our blessing). There are also very few posts hidden by mods, probably 90% of all removed posts are removed by the posters themselves. I even toyed with the idea of removing that feature if the ends result is people assuming the mods have done it.

I also agree, the one faction forcing another out is not good for the long term benefit of the site (which is why I was the Liberal Lefty who constantly protected the noisy right .. something people forget when making me out to be the villain of the piece at the moment) but neither is people constantly crossing the very clearly obvious, stated line and feeling they can get away with it because they're "liked". People always asked for consistency, but repeatedly giving people "one, more, chance" doesn't achieve that.

 

[JBiz]

The other website is just a way for a few extremely bitter individuals to put the boot in others who might not share their views. I was hoping to be wrong, but another glance today and four ex BRFCS posters all have had a pop.

It's pathetic. Especially from Gordon because I had (past tense) a lot of respect for his opinions and the way he put them across. Many of the others who are "on self imposed posting bans"? 

May they last forever! 

 

[Glenn]

Just now, Gav said:

As for the bans and the other site, I do feel we had an orchestrated movement a month or so ago that tried to target seasoned posters on here, its was a blatant as night and day, but it failed to remove many of us and rightly so. The banning for the Brexit stuff I can't comment on because I never read it, but as an outsider looking in it seems harsh, but its done now and they've all moved on.

 

 

I have to admit, I was blind to that as I wasn't around and if it did happen intentionally (which I obviously doubt) , then there is little evidence of it left by the time I arrived back. The only bit I was aware of was Yoda's ban, which he came to me about and I dragged my heals on (it was right it the middle of me changing jobs, and I do feel guilty about that), but by the time I looked at it, he'd gone, but was no longer banned and Mike had stood down was offering to be a mod on RoversFans, so there didn't seem anything left for me to review.

As I said, water under the bridge, I welcome the new site, I think offering an alternative is a good thing.  We have to build on what we have, not look back on what we had. 

[Gav]

Just now, Jbizzle said:

The other website is just a way for a few extremely bitter individuals to put the boot in others who might not share their views. I was hoping to be wrong, but another glance today and four ex BRFCS posters all have had a pop.

It's pathetic. Especially from Gordon because I had (past tense) a lot of respect for his opinions and the way he put them across. Many of the others who are "on self imposed posting bans"? 

May they last forever! 

 

Absolute bunkum, as usual you've cherry picked what suits the argument and you're doing exactly the same here!

Lots of really good content that you've failed to discover and its only early days, but keep reading you'll find it eventually.

 

[Glenn]

Just now, Jbizzle said:

"on self imposed posting bans"? 

How does that even work? 

(actually, don't answer that, I simply don't care)

[JBiz]

Just now, Gav said:

Absolute bunkum, as usual you've cherry picked what suits the argument and you're doing exactly the same here!

Lots of really good content that you've failed to discover and its only early days, but keep reading you'll find it eventually.

 

How can I read, when the first thread I see (introduce yourself) has the quote "that pathetic JBizzle?

[Glenn]

Thinking about it, this thread is nothing to do with football, so I'm moving it to ICBINF (not locking it, closing it, censoring it or in any other way moderating it  )

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Jbizzle said:

How can I read, when the first thread I see (introduce yourself) has the quote "that pathetic JBizzle?

You're also me don't forget. Except when I'm 'bluebell'. And you're 'Jizz'.

Top content...if you're a paranoid android with control issues.   

[JBiz]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

You're also me don't forget. Except when I'm 'bluebell'. And you're 'Jizz'.

Top content...if you're a paranoid android with control issues.   

Do you think Gav is referring to us being the same poster? 

[Stuart]

Just now, Glenn said:

Personally, for me, it was never about being the biggest, it was simply about being the best. That's why we used to put so much effort into the community stuff and not the forum. Sadly I've spent years now trying to find somebody who wanted to take over the site that *got* that, but everyone always kept coming back to the forum (bar a couple of exceptions that fell through for other reasons). Thankfully a change in my day job means I now have time (and less of a conflict of interests, as I'm no longer involved with forums / social media / moderation etc) to take control again. So getting the forums back under control is just the first step in a long term plan.  Had I changed jobs a month earlier (or if I'd listen to Biddy, who tried to warn me, but I missed his pleas to come back), things may have been different, but I have to work with that I have and the fact the things seem so much better around here, I'll take as a bonus for now.

One thing I can now openly take about a lot more is Facebook. It's a dreadful place for discussions and massively distorts the true opinions. This is because of their Bozo-Filtering and their story/post weightings. Facebook "feels" less moderated because of Bozo-Filtering, which means when a post of yours is removed, it is still visible to you and your "friends", which means not only do you think people are still reading your posts, but you "won" because everyone you know has stopped arguing with you. Additionally The EdgeRank system Facebook uses tends to prioritse posts you might "like" which heavily favours things you agree with, creating even more of an echo chamber. Finally, it's poor threading and lack of ability to keep track with it means it leads to a situation where discussions don't "flow", everyone talks and nobody listens. In short, Facebook is a place to shout and preach, not to debate.

On over-modding, I take the blame on that, partly because I wrote the original guidelines and those years ago and mainly for being absent for so long. However, when I came back, I spent three entire evenings reviewing every current ban in place and every moderated post this year ... and you know what .... I think they had is *mostly * spot on. A couple of recent bans that had already been revoked under review/protest, but other than that, it was pretty spot on. However, I'm sure people think we ban a LOT more that we actually do (I believe only 2 of the regular posters on RoversFans are technically banned, both of which actually admit it was warranted and one of which came back under an alias for a while with our blessing). There are also very few posts hidden by mods, probably 90% of all removed posts are removed by the posters themselves. I even toyed with the idea of removing that feature if the ends result is people assuming the mods have done it.

I also agree, the one faction forcing another out is not good for the long term benefit of the site (which is why I was the Liberal Lefty who constantly protected the noisy right .. something people forget when making me out to be the villain of the piece at the moment) but neither is people constantly crossing the very clearly obvious, stated line and feeling they can get away with it because they're "liked". People always asked for consistency, but repeatedly giving people "one, more, chance" doesn't achieve that.

Thanks for the reply, Glenn. There was a lot of ill-feeling generated resulting in people who weren't actually banned (or had them revoked at some point) were left with a bad taste. Everyone has their different reasons for why they do what the do and I won't speak on behalf of individuals (except to say that I did - and do - feel Abbey's pain).

I agree about the Fb site(s). There is some awful stuff on there and, ironically, not having anonymity doesn't make it more civil. Plus the mix of age groups and interaction between them disturbs me greatly (as a parent).

The thing is though that the forum does make this site. Without it, it would just be blogs and in my view that isn't particularly stimulating. It'd be like reading some of the stuff on the Rovers site. Doesn't help that Kamy has done a Nicko and gone all Twitterati, Parsonblue has, understandably, given up on match reports (a sign of the times), and our most eminent journalist spend most of his time taking pot shots and, despite his complaints, is about the most insulting of all posters when it comes to 'debating' Brexit. Meadows seems to want to create an argument - despite being the potential site blogster.

Without the forums (on either site), what content would I want to read - or even contribute to? Although I tend to make long posts, I don't consider myself a blogger as I like the interaction of the forums, and tend to respond to something that moves me (or maybe the odd joke or satire here and there). So what's left? The interesting content such as the ownership issues or financials (by Dunnfc, or Glen M, or what Mercerman used to contribute before he started taking the happy pills).

What do you feel would make the site newsworthy, Glenn? Or to make it "the go to site for..."?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Jbizzle said:

Do you think Gav is referring to us being the same poster? 

Who knows? Gav seems to  think everyone is someone else...if they don't agree with him. It's become a bit of an obsession for him. He's even checking spelling

 Very worrying.

[Glenn]

Just now, Stuart said:

What do you feel would make the site newsworthy, Glenn? Or to make it "the go to site for..."?

Currently (and for the last few years) nothing and that's kinda my point, I wanted somebody who had the same passion for things other than the forum than I once did.

But now I'm back, I *can* focus on those things again, however my focus right now is getting the forums  under control, re-engaging with a lot of lapsed posters and preparing for a whole bunch of new feature for next season.

As for Kamy, most of you will be amazed to find out what he's been up to whilst not focusing on Rovers, more news on this soon.