[Archived] Election called for 8th June

[perthblue02]

Greens - 16 year olds should be given the right to vote  starting on June 8 and every election afterwards

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39651786

[JohnD]

Oh no they shouldn't!

You must be able to tidy your room before you get to vote.

Hmmmm .........

[Mike E]

I reckon the general voting age should be 18 BUT I'd allow those who are younger AND PAYING TAXES to vote too. Everyone paying taxes deserves a say on where they go.

[Gav]

So you can vote on Scottish independence at 16 but not on in or out of the EU, which lets face it has a major impact on your future. 

Also you can't vote in a general election at 16 either.....

Pathetic, either let them vote or don't, cherry picking for political gain is just poor really, very poor.

[Gav]

9 hours ago, JohnD said:

Well I am at retirement age and my very close friend of 44 years has just retired from a career nursing

I'm not suggesting that all NHS staff are well paid but neither are the nurses underpaid "angels". There are good and bad as in every other walk of life.

The waste in the NHS defies belief as does the management. The staff deserve much better. Money and privatisation aren't the answer but modernisation is. There's only one place you will find bed sores in first world medical care and that is in the NHS. Completely avoidable and entrely because of poor nursing.

Modern processes will cure the NHS not sentiment.

So you're not a nurse as you originally claimed, fair enough.

I do agree about modernisation, but sadly nobody seems to know how to do it, many have tried, everyone has failed, Cameron wasted billions stroking his own ego and fell flat on his face.

But back to the original point, nurses in the main are brilliant, as are the majority of people that work in the NHS in my opinion, and they are underpaid in my opinion and I've got first hand experience, but we'll agree to disagree. 

[chaddyrovers]

How can a nurse on 24k a year be under paid Gav?

 

[Batman.]

 

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

How can a nurse on 24k a year be under paid Gav?

 

Because they work so many hours pro rata it ends up being around £4 an hour.

[Gav]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

How can a nurse on 24k a year be under paid Gav?

 

You don't just start on 24k chaddy, I would imagine that's after qualifying? and when you're saving people's lives for living it should be much more in my opinion.

 

[Paul]

17 hours ago, JohnD said:

It's surprising how little pay a degree can command these days but that is a result of dumbing down our education system.

Some degrees are two a penny.

The nurses on the lowest wages have little to do with peoples lives.

My only point is that a nurse's lot isn't a particularly poor one.

With regard to the value of a degree I think there is truth in this. 

Your comments re nurses demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge in the area. 

[Paul]

I have to emigrate:

SNP 74%

Plaid Cymru 73%

Labour 66%

Lib Dem 64%

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

You don't just start on 24k chaddy, I would imagine that's after qualifying? and when you're saving people's lives for living it should be much more in my opinion.

 

That someone I know who works at NHS hospital working wages. 

Like I said yesterday staff in A and E should be little higher due to the job. 

Like any job, when you start a new job you start on the bottom salary until you get more qualify and more experiences then you start earning more and more plus in my job if we reach targets we get a bouns at the end of the year

[Guest]

10 hours ago, JohnD said:

Oh no they shouldn't!

You must be able to tidy your room before you get to vote.

Most adults I know wouldn't get to vote based on that criteria!

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Mike E said:

I reckon the general voting age should be 18 BUT I'd allow those who are younger AND PAYING TAXES to vote too. Everyone paying taxes deserves a say on where they go.

I understand that sentiment, but what about 16-17 year olds who are severely disabled and simply cannot work? I think you have to unconditionally lower the age or not at all.

[perthblue02]

1 hour ago, Batman. said:

 

Because they work so many hours pro rata it ends up being around £4 an hour.

We have  a neighbour who is  a nurse, moved over here 3 or 4 years ago from the UK and that was one of the reasons.

With the cost of rent / having a mortgage and general living costs in this part of AU she said she is not that much better off finance wise (RN level 3 don't know if that makes a difference), but has more of a work/life balance now and a lot less stress from the multitude of pen pushers that seem to have grown rapidly in the last 20 years in the NHS.

Wonder if Simon Cowell is watching the Greens suggestion closely - MP IDOL Saturday nights on TV should appeal to the 16 year olds . Election by facebook likes?

 

 

[Mike E]

1 minute ago, Phil T said:

I understand that sentiment, but what about 16-17 year olds who are severely disabled and simply cannot work? I think you have to unconditionally lower the age or not at all.

And I understand that sentiment too. I think the important distinction is that those who are actively contributing to the purse should be allowed a vote.

Those who are severely disabled would be the same as those in college or further education imo, so it isn't discriminatory.

It could also be seen as a 'reward for working', encouraging young people to take up trades instead of clogging up the system with degrees in Media Studies.

[dulwich]

36 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

That someone I know who works at NHS hospital working wages. 

Like I said yesterday staff in A and E should be little higher due to the job. 

Like any job, when you start a new job you start on the bottom salary until you get more qualify and more experiences then you start earning more and more plus in my job if we reach targets we get a bouns at the end of the year

With all due respect, a nurse isn't like "any job"... are we now suggesting setting nurses targets??

[Guest]

Just now, Mike E said:

And I understand that sentiment too. I think the important distinction is that those who are actively contributing to the purse should be allowed a vote.

Those who are severely disabled would be the same as those in college or further education imo, so it isn't discriminatory.

So, 16-17 year olds who work and pay tax should get a vote.

I'm not clear on what you're saying about 16-17 year olds who are unable to work because of a disability. They aren't contributing taxes. Are you saying they will still get a vote?

What about 16-17 year olds who are continuing to study full time at college and therefore aren't contributing taxes?

[JBiz]

http://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-restates-pledge-to-cut-net-migration-to-tens-of-thousands-10844346

 

How to win a certain vote.

[LeChuck]

9 hours ago, Mike E said:

I reckon the general voting age should be 18 BUT I'd allow those who are younger AND PAYING TAXES to vote too. Everyone paying taxes deserves a say on where they go.

So you'd discriminate against younger people that have decided to continue education?

Sounds like a pretty bad idea to be fair. Just going by my school alone, allowing those that went straight into work at 16 to vote and excluding those that went on to sixth-form would be a terrible idea!

Edit: Sorry, just noticed you've already in debate about this.

[only2garners]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

I have to emigrate:

SNP 74%

Plaid Cymru 73%

Labour 66%

Lib Dem 64%

Me too Paul. I can't remember the exact numbers but mine was SNP, Green, Lib Dem, all above 80%.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Jbizzle said:

http://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-restates-pledge-to-cut-net-migration-to-tens-of-thousands-10844346

 

How to win a certain vote.

Not from me it isn't.

I don't hold the current populist view. Immigration has never bothered me in the slightest, even after the last decade of having "IMMIGRATION! IMMIGRATION" rammed down our throats as all things evil. Of all the reasons to blame our current financial situation and national debt, immigration isn't one.

From my own observations, I think there is a huge confusion among some people between British citizens who's parents and grandparents were immigrants and are now part of British culture, and new immigrants who are currently coming to the UK from Europe. Has a Polish immigrant ever adversely affected me? No. Has a Polish immigrant ever adversely affected you? Do you think he/she should be shouldering a disproportionate amount of blame for our current crisis? Shouldn't we be tracking back a bit and bringing bank regulations back to the fore (not that they ever really were)? Or have we forgotten all about that until the next time it happens?

Cut immigration, encourage young British citizens to go straight into work after school by giving them a vote, and it won't be long before start to seriously rue a lack of skill in our workforce (a problem that actually does exist, at least in my field) with nothing that can be done about it.

Everything is completely wrong at the minute. We are stuck in a rut and placing blame in areas that it doesn't belong.

[den]

..

[JBiz]

Just now, Phil T said:

Not from me it isn't.

I don't hold the current populist view. Immigration has never bothered me in the slightest, even after the last decade of having "IMMIGRATION! IMMIGRATION" rammed down our throats as all things evil. Of all the reasons to blame our current financial situation and national debt, immigration isn't one.

From my own observations, I think there is a huge confusion among some people between British citizens who's parents and grandparents were immigrants and are now part of British culture, and new immigrants who are currently coming to the UK from Europe. Has a Polish immigrant ever adversely affected me? No. Has a Polish immigrant ever adversely affected you? Do you think he/she should be shouldering a disproportionate amount of blame for our current crisis? Shouldn't we be tracking back a bit and bringing bank regulations back to the fore (not that they ever really were)? Or have we forgotten all about that until the next time it happens?

Cut immigration, encourage young British citizens to go straight into work after school by giving them a vote, and it won't be long before start to seriously rue a lack of skill in our workforce (a problem that actually does exist, at least in my field) with nothing that can be done about it.

Everything is completely wrong at the minute. We are stuck in a rut and placing blame in areas that it doesn't belong.

I highly doubt it's a comment designed to sway those with an ounce of empathy for anyone else!

Immigration has more pros than cons, and the skills drain you speak of is testament to that in itself. One says "don't put a number on it", the other contradicts... and the retort is to bash labour with "confusion over brexit". Just how banal can politics be!

I couldn't agree more with your observation about immigration being a part of our culture ultimately, and I also agree so much about the corporate culture that continues to push the gap between the very poor and the very rich. Why aren't we hearing pledges to ensure our services, our investments and our house prices? What does a set number of "immigrants" mean to any of those?

 

[den]

16 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Like I said before over half of the people that voted, voted to leave. Its aint my fault that 12.9 million didnt vote. Maybe they should. 

You can try to spin it anyway you want but 52% of those that voted, voted to leave like I said previously..time to get over it and face the fact that we are leaving the EU. 

You actually said "the majority of the country" voted for Brexit Chaddy. Can you never stand behind what you say? Why not just accept that you got it wrong?

https://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php?/topic/32242-election-potentially-called-for-8th-june/&do=findComment&comment=1752555

 

[Gav]

Just now, den said:

You actually said "the majority of the country" voted for Brexit Chaddy. Can you never stand behind what you say? Why not just accept that you got it wrong?

https://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php?/topic/32242-election-potentially-called-for-8th-june/&do=findComment&comment=1752555

 

He said 'what the majority of the country wanted', I'm sure he's referring to the ones that voted den.