[Archived] Election called for 8th June

[Guest]

It's difficult to deny that Corbyn is fighting for workers. Can he convince them that he is someone who can lead, though?

Labour wants four new bank holidays

[Glenn]

I'm sorry, but it feels like impractical, popularist nonsense to me.  I'd much rather see proper protection of workers rights (which I've no doubt we'll lose under the great reform bill) than some extra days off, which a big chunk of the low wage earners won't benefit from anyway. 

[den]

Labour under Corbyn are just a shambles. The election will inevitably swing towards the brexit debate and Corbyn just doesn't have any kind of credible position on that. Unbelievably, a pro European party couldn't have helped the leave campaign any more than it did. So, no surprise then, that he wants to divert the election away from that, - but putting ideas forward such as the four extra bank holidays - which he knows that no employee would object to, isn't going to persuade an electorate that see him as a leader that not even his own MP's want, has in any way grasped what people want from him and Labour. I can't see past a soul destroying Tory landslide and the inevitable hard brexit coupled with further attacks on the poorer in society. But that's democracy for you. Question is - are the majority always right?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Glenn said:

I'm sorry, but it feels like impractical, popularist nonsense to me.  I'd much rather see proper protection of workers rights (which I've no doubt we'll lose under the great reform bill) than some extra days off, which a big chunk of the low wage earners won't benefit from anyway. 

Completely disagree. There's been talk for a long time of having more bank holidays. We have 8 in England. The average across Europe is 12! Just get it done. And that's coming from a freelancer who doesn't normally get commissioned work on a bank holiday!

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, den said:

I can't see past a soul destroying Tory landslide and the inevitable hard brexit coupled with further attacks on the poorer in society.

Which is why traditional Labour voters who have drifted to anti-establishment parties in recent years should seriously reconsider Labour as one now. It is impossible to deny that Corbyn is the only one who has their direct interests at the front of his mind, which at least gives Labour an identity that they've been crying out for.

I'd personally prefer to see Labour's identity as an electable left-of-centre party, because Corbyn's vision of Old Labour isn't one that is going to win an election and keep certain other parties out of government, but one thing that can be said of Corbyn is that you know where he stands.

[den]

Robert Peston asking Liz Kendal why Labour didn't vote against an election, making the point that May probably would have had to go down the route of facing a vote of no confidence. Isn't that what opposition parties do - make things difficult for government?

[Baz]

1 hour ago, den said:

Robert Peston asking Liz Kendal why Labour didn't vote against an election, making the point that May probably would have had to go down the route of facing a vote of no confidence. Isn't that what opposition parties do - make things difficult for government?

If Labour had said no, then the media would have slaughtered them. Plus many Labour MP'S will see this as the end of Corbyn.

[jim mk2]

5 hours ago, den said:

Labour under Corbyn are just a shambles. The election will inevitably swing towards the brexit debate and Corbyn just doesn't have any kind of credible position on that. Unbelievably, a pro European party couldn't have helped the leave campaign any more than it did. So, no surprise then, that he wants to divert the election away from that, - but putting ideas forward such as the four extra bank holidays - which he knows that no employee would object to, isn't going to persuade an electorate that see him as a leader that not even his own MP's want, has in any way grasped what people want from him and Labour. I can't see past a soul destroying Tory landslide and the inevitable hard brexit coupled with further attacks on the poorer in society. But that's democracy for you. Question is - are the majority always right?

 

The Tories want the election to be all about Brexit because Corbyn has not been able to formulate a coherent EU strategy and it is where they have the strongest hand. However, Corbyn is right to focus on other important issues because it will be easy over the next 7 weeks to lose sight of the fact that a Tory victory will result if 4 more years of austerity, 4 more years of hollowing out of the NHS and education, and 4 more years of attacks on the trade unions and workers rights. 

[jim mk2]

Meanwhile, the Conservatives have pinched yet another Labour policy with a promise to cap energy prices - one of Ed Miliband's election pledges 2 years ago. The Mail of course attacked it at the time as a socialist attack on business - I wonder what they will say this time? 

[den]

2 hours ago, Baz said:

If Labour had said no, then the media would have slaughtered them. Plus many Labour MP'S will see this as the end of Corbyn.

The media slaughter them anyway, Baz.

[broadsword]

Is the most pressing issue facing this country the number of bank holidays we get? 

Shambolic. I haven't a clue what his position is on brexit. He's come  out today saying that they'll be a defence review if he wins. Not long after he is immediately contradicted by his party. 

What's the deal with this guy, doesn't he want to win? 

[Gav]

11 minutes ago, broadsword said:

Is the most pressing issue facing this country the number of bank holidays we get? 

Shambolic. I haven't a clue what his position is on brexit. He's come  out today saying that they'll be a defence review if he wins. Not long after he is immediately contradicted by his party. 

What's the deal with this guy, doesn't he want to win? 

I'm not sure it matters what his policies are Bryan to be honest, he doesn't help himself at times I agree, but the media in this country seem intent on destroying the guy, bit like they did with Miliband and then the Tories swiped all his policies.

Think the Labour manifesto will be out by the end of May.

 

[chaddyrovers]

Corbyn would stop all air strikes against Syria and terror group leaders..plus get rid Trident. 

http://dailym.ai/2q3Ovcn

Corbyn becoming Prime minister would be biggest mistake this country could make. 

Hasnt Corbyn defending terror groups and support terror groups attacking Israel?

Corbyn wants the world to be peaceful but surely that only happens if everyone plays by the same rules. 

Tony Blair set to return to politics? Not a shock. Could he been after the Labour leadership again? 

 

[onlyonetugay]

23 hours ago, Glenn said:

I'm sorry, but it feels like impractical, popularist nonsense to me.  I'd much rather see proper protection of workers rights (which I've no doubt we'll lose under the great reform bill) than some extra days off, which a big chunk of the low wage earners won't benefit from anyway. 

I think this is one of Jeremy Corbyn's more realistic proposals , but just needs some tweaking .

There is a statutory minimum of 28 days under the Working Time Regulations ( WTR) . There is no right to take bank holidays off ( only in the finance sector ) so he can introduce as many as he wants. It won't change workers lot in the rest of the private sector. Often the 28 statutory holidays( under the WTR) are taken as 20 days plus 8 bank holidays . Bring in 4 more bank holidays and it will be dressed up as 16 days plus 12 bank holidays

The only beneficiaries of 4 extra bank holidays will be the the banking / finance sector & the public sector ( who tend to get bank holidays on top of their holiday entitlement) More holidays for public sector will mean more cost to cover staff taking those extra holidays meaning more taxation/borrowing  for the same service

 If he had thought this through properly and wants to help ordinary workers in manufacturing, retail , warehousing , hospitality etc who are , in the main , on the statutory minimum  , the sensible approach would have been to propose an increase in the statutory holiday entitlement under the WTR from 28 days to 32 days ( or as it's described in the Regs 5.6 weeks to 6.4 weeks ) 

PS Apologies to those who may   have read this same post on the other site .

[joey_big_nose]

19 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

 

The Tories want the election to be all about Brexit because Corbyn has not been able to formulate a coherent EU strategy and it is where they have the strongest hand. However, Corbyn is right to focus on other important issues because it will be easy over the next 7 weeks to lose sight of the fact that a Tory victory will result if 4 more years of austerity, 4 more years of hollowing out of the NHS and education, and 4 more years of attacks on the trade unions and workers rights. 

Not to pour the misery on but it will be 5 more years I think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed-term_Parliaments_Act_2011

As to the bank holiday proposal - I think it is a very very clever move and makes total sense. Its economically legitimate as most other G7 economies have equal or greater numbers of public holidays and perform just as well or better than the UK. And it is a policy that will genuinely reach across party boundaries, and - crucially - it will bring out the youth vote in a big way. 

Strong work. The Conservatives have an interesting challenge on whether to oppose it or co-opt it. I suspect ultimately they will do the latter because there is not really an effective opposition argument to it except to highlight the potential costs to small and medium businesses. They might do that - its the instinctively Conservative thing to do - but many many working families will be enthused by the idea whether conservative or Labour, and are the small business costs that large? I am interested to see what the Mail and Express columnists make of it, as they will be confused about how to respond I think. I had an internet search and for such an eyecatching policy it is remarkable how little they have written about it. A sure sign they are worried they can't find a decent angle to attack it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4436150/Corbyn-promises-extra-days-Patron-Saints.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-4436144/Labour-seeks-create-four-patron-saints-day-bank-holidays.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-4436800/Labour-wants-four-new-bank-holidays-mark-patron-saints.html

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/795269/general-election-jeremy-corbyn-bank-holidays-poll-theresa-may

Corbyn has actually found something difficult for May to respond to. Good on him. First time for everything!

[Paul]

Conservative lead in polls drops by 50% in four days:

http://the-orator.co.uk/2017/04/editorial-labour-halve-the-tories-lead-in-the-polls-in-only-four-days/

[onlyonetugay]

Communist Party of Britain and Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition ( set up by the late Bob Crowe -RMT) announce that they will support  Labour on June 8th . 

Meanwhile the latest polls :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/24/labour-facing-election-wipeout-polls-suggest-tory-majority-150/

Interesting polls in Scotland and Wales .  Hopefully the people of Scotand  are starting ( small steps)  to reject the toxic nationalism and anglophobia  of the SNP . I'd buy a ticket for the count in Moray  if it was guaranteed that  the smug and sanctimonious Angus Robertson was to lose his seat . 

[philipl]

5 hours ago, onlyonetugay said:

Communist Party of Britain and Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition ( set up by the late Bob Crowe -RMT) announce that they will support  Labour on June 8th . 

Meanwhile the latest polls :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/24/labour-facing-election-wipeout-polls-suggest-tory-majority-150/

Interesting polls in Scotland and Wales .  Hopefully the people of Scotand  are starting ( small steps)  to reject the toxic nationalism and anglophobia  of the SNP . I'd buy a ticket for the count in Moray  if it was guaranteed that  the smug and sanctimonious Angus Robertson was to lose his seat . 

Worth remembering the Lib Dems won 46 sets on 11% of the poll in 2005. 

[onlyonetugay]

6 minutes ago, philipl said:

Worth remembering the Lib Dems won 46 sets on 11% of the poll in 2005. 

Yes they did - fair point . However  a racist/anti-semitic  problem has emerged for them today , on top of Tim's  difficulty in aligning  his Christian beliefs with the views of  his liberal voters. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4443446/Lib-Dems-forced-suspend-anti-Semitic-candidate.html

[Baz]

On Monday, April 24, 2017 at 10:20 AM, onlyonetugay said:

I think this is one of Jeremy Corbyn's more realistic proposals , but just needs some tweaking .

There is a statutory minimum of 28 days under the Working Time Regulations ( WTR) . There is no right to take bank holidays off ( only in the finance sector ) so he can introduce as many as he wants. It won't change workers lot in the rest of the private sector. Often the 28 statutory holidays( under the WTR) are taken as 20 days plus 8 bank holidays . Bring in 4 more bank holidays and it will be dressed up as 16 days plus 12 bank holidays

The only beneficiaries of 4 extra bank holidays will be the the banking / finance sector & the public sector ( who tend to get bank holidays on top of their holiday entitlement) More holidays for public sector will mean more cost to cover staff taking those extra holidays meaning more taxation/borrowing  for the same service

 If he had thought this through properly and wants to help ordinary workers in manufacturing, retail , warehousing , hospitality etc who are , in the main , on the statutory minimum  , the sensible approach would have been to propose an increase in the statutory holiday entitlement under the WTR from 28 days to 32 days ( or as it's described in the Regs 5.6 weeks to 6.4 weeks ) 

PS Apologies to those who may   have read this same post on the other site .

I agree it's better to add to the minimum number, however for some that may mean no additional holidays.

If it is to be extra bank holidays then the timing should be taken into account - there should be more in the summer and autumn period, at present they are grouped pretty unevenly around easter, spring and Christmas 

[Mike E]

Have a national day of funny on International Joke Day (1st July)?

Queen's official birthday (as our longest reigning monarch)?

Have Halloween as a bank holiday?

[Baz]

How about 21st June, Midsummer? 

Somewhere around Halloween would be good. I'm in favour of Bank Holiday Fridays rather than Mondays too.

[Mike E]

Just now, Baz said:

How about 21st June, Midsummer? 

Somewhere around Halloween would be good. I'm in favour of Bank Holiday Fridays rather than Mondays too.

Would help the economy too, student nights are Thursdays anyway haha

[Baz]

Just now, Mike E said:

Would help the economy too, student nights are Thursdays anyway haha

Student nights are every night if you're a proper student

[Mike E]

 Not if you become a teacher