[Archived] Election called for 8th June

[broadsword]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Just seen what IFS say on Sky News..

Didnt know about the other stories..

So the question of the day

Do people want less taxes and cutbacks or more taxes for everybody and more borrowing and spending?

 

More taxes for corporations, less loopholes, a living wage, abolition of zero hours contracts, fairer disability payments and return to work assessments.

We have a situation in this country where nurses, who work their back ends off, have to use food banks. Diabolical.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, broadsword said:

More taxes for corporations, less loopholes, a living wage, abolition of zero hours contracts, fairer disability payments and return to work assessments.

We have a situation in this country where nurses, who work their back ends off, have to use food banks. Diabolical.

More taxes for businesses will results in less jobs being created so the unemployment figures will go up

 Wasnt it The Coalition who introduce the living wage and higher rate of the national wage

Zero hours contracts? Some people do like these type of contracts. 

What percentage of nurses use food banks? Ive heard this said but no figures. 

[broadsword]

Oh well, then, let's not tax businesses at all, because thne they'll re-invest all the profits into job creation, rather than siphoning it off for the people at the top.

Are you trying to say that nurses don't use food banks? That zero hours contracts are OK? That everyone is paid a fair wage? That appears to be what you're suggesting.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, broadsword said:

Oh well, then, let's not tax businesses at all, because thne they'll re-invest all the profits into job creation, rather than siphoning it off for the people at the top.

Are you trying to say that nurses don't use food banks? That zero hours contracts are OK? That everyone is paid a fair wage? That appears to be what you're suggesting.

Businesses should pay taxes but by having a lower business tax helps business investment, job creation and new businesses. 

I asked for numbers about nurses use food banks and what wage bracket are they in? I'm asking for numbers..

Some people enjoyed and like zero hours contracts. 

What do you called a fair wage and salary? What bracket is fair? 

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

More taxes for businesses will results in less jobs being created so the unemployment figures will go up

 Wasnt it The Coalition who introduce the living wage and higher rate of the national wage

Zero hours contracts? Some people do like these type of contracts. 

What percentage of nurses use food banks? Ive heard this said but no figures. 

I used a zero hours contract job whilst at University to work as a waiter/bar man around the country. It allowed me to pick events I'd like to work at and chose what weeks I worked. The job was brilliant, for 4 years I worked hospitality for race courses, football stadiums and major racing events. Worked, and reaped the financial rewards, for events like Royal Ascot, Gold Cup, Silverstone, Goodwood etc etc. In this scenario a zero hours contract is great.

However, other people who worked for the agency weren't students and had families to care for. They often had to accept the terrible shifts whereby they had to travel 3 hours for a 4 hr shift cleaning dishes just so they had some form of income Monday-Wednesday when those big events/race courses don't run/don't need to use agency staff. They couldn't get out of the zero hours contract job because, unbeknown to them, there was a clause in the contract that stipulated you couldn't work for a company the agency had worked for until 6 months had passed since your last shift with the agency. Whilst the flexibility aspect is brilliant for some the contract is open to vile abuse and is, of course, exploited massively by business.

It has also been used in other industries that aren't like hospitality. In hospitality the wage didn't matter much because I made far and above that in tips. Would I have been doing stewarding or security for that matter the wage would have definitely been an issue and, from witnessing this first hand, people who complain to the agency tend to be 'archived' whereby no work is offered but no contract terminated and that then leaves them in this no-man zone. 

We also had it where some people left the catering agency I worked for to go and work for another (which paid more per hour) and their former agency rang around all their prospective clients to ensure no work was offered to them by stating the contract arrangements and threatening legal action. They then offered to take them all back for less wages than they were previously on knowing they were tied. This is why zero hours contracts legislation should be massively changed.

[broadsword]

I'm not a walking database, sorry. Here's an article about it, though. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nurses-forced-to-use-food-banks_uk_5811c59ce4b0ccfc9561bdcc

Businesses should pay a fair amount of tax, which is why I mentioned loopholes.

Got any figures on how many people are happy with zero hours contracts?

I'm not going to put a figure on what is a fair wage, but if you have nurses going without, I think something needs to be done.

[chaddyrovers]

Corbyn's speech today on Terrorism.and extremism was ill advised and shows that he is soft on terrorism and would give in on foriegn matters. 

His time of the speech was extremed very bad

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Corbyn's speech today on Terrorism.and extremism was ill advised and shows that he is soft on terrorism and would give in on foriegn matters. 

His time of the speech was extremed very bad

Pardon?

 

Quote

 

He said that "many experts, including professionals in our intelligence and security services, have pointed out the connections between wars that we have been involved in, or supported, or fought, in other countries and terrorism here at home".

But he added: "That assessment in no way reduces the guilt of those who attack our children. Those terrorists will forever be reviled and implacably held to account for their actions."

"The blame is with the terrorists, but if we are to protect our people we must be honest about what threatens our security."

However he said that the causes "certainly cannot be reduced to foreign policy decisions alone" and said the prison system, where a "sub culture of often suicidal violence" had developed among "a tiny minority" of young men was also in need of "resources and reform".

Mr Corbyn also said that a Labour government would fund more police and ensure the security services had sufficient resources "to keep track of those who wish to murder and maim".

On deploying British troops, he said he would tell them: "Under my leadership, you will only be deployed abroad when there is a clear need and only when there is a plan that you have the resources to do your job and secure an outcome that delivers lasting peace".

Mr Corbyn, who opposed UK military intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan, and voted against strikes in Libya and Syria, said: "We must be brave enough to admit the 'war on terror' is simply not working.

"We need a smarter way to reduce the threat from countries that nurture terrorists and generate terrorism."

But he added: "Do not doubt my determination to take whatever action is necessary to keep our country safe".

 

The above is taken from the BBC article.

 

Chaddy I'd like you to highlight the points that show he is "soft on terrorism" and would "give in on foreign policy". Also point out why a debate on the future of this country and its role in fighting in terrorism is badly timed when a) there's been the biggest terrorist attack on UK soil since London bombings and b: we are in the middle of an election campaign.

The future of the country rests on the outcome of the election; the outcome of the election determines the future policy on fighting terror. He's set out his stall, paid his respects and told us his plans should we decide to elect him.

Stop quoting nonsense from Tory MPs looking to latch onto anything they can to halt Corbyn's rise.

 

 

[Mike E]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

More taxes for businesses will results in less jobs being created so the unemployment figures will go up

 Wasnt it The Coalition who introduce the living wage and higher rate of the national wage

Zero hours contracts? Some people do like these type of contracts. 

What percentage of nurses use food banks? Ive heard this said but no figures. 

Actually, we can substantially increase Corporation tax and still be cheaper than most European countries.

[jim mk2]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Just seen what IFS say on Sky News..

Didnt know about the other stories..

So the question of the day

Do people want less taxes and cutbacks or more taxes for everybody and more borrowing and spending?

 

Wrong question.

Do people want less taxes, austerity and poor public services, or do they want higher taxes and good public services.

It depends on the sort of country you want to live in. My vote is for the latter.

 

 

[Mike E]

On 2017-5-22 at 23:57, Mike E said:

Vote Conservative if you want to:

-Take heating and homes from pensioners.

-Take away children's school meals (while MPs continue to have lavish 5-course meals for free).

-Legitimise animal abuse.

-Risk the security of having schools at all.

-Continue the ruination of the NHS.

-Continue the decimation of the education system.

-Have a leader who uses a slogan first used in any meaningful way by one of history's worst mass-murderers.

-A leader who, in her role as Home Secretary, increased the chances of an attack such as Monday's attack on Manchester by forcing unprecedented cuts to our Police Force, leading to vital work in data analysis, surveillance, and intelligence gathering being decimated.

Just to make it clear, I believe Ms May must shoulder a 'not insignificant' part of the blame for such an attack being allowed to happen, so thinly has she allowed our police force to be stretched.

[cmb211087]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Corbyn's speech today on Terrorism.and extremism was ill advised and shows that he is soft on terrorism and would give in on foriegn matters. 

His time of the speech was extremed very bad

Are you doing what you do on the football forum and reciting the views of others as your own? Such as the daily mail for example? Or Michael Fallon? As those are pretty much his words....

 

Corbyns speech was nothing of the sort by the way

[den]

[Baz]

Just now, den said:

So do you want the same tax as now for 95% of the population, no increase in VAT, no cuts in public services, do you want to see winter fuel payments staying, a plan to renationalise the Railways, and introduction of not for profit competition in the energy market, students not coming out of uni with 10's of thousands in debt?

Or 

Do you want extra VAT, more tax, more cuts to public services, the dementia tax, and tax cuts for the wealthiest?

Incidentally the IFS also said IF the Tories meet their own immigration targets, they will have a further £6bn hole in their figures.

[den]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/26/conservative-labour-tax-spending-plans-ifs-general-election-manifesto

Says Labour would raise taxes to the highest levels in peacetime. And its taxes on the rich and businesses wouldnt rise anything like the taxes they said

Under the Tories it would be another 5 years of austerity 

While we're quoting the IFS Chaddy, here's another one.....

"A new Conservative government would leave schools in England worse off financially than they currently are, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says"

 

"Labour would increase spending per pupil by around 6% after inflation over the course of the Parliament, taking it to just above its previous historic high in 2015. 

"Proposals from the Conservatives would lead to a near 3% real terms fall in spending per pupil over the Parliament, taking it back to its 2010 level."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40051476?ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter

[blueboy3333]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Businesses should pay taxes but by having a lower business tax helps business investment, job creation and new businesses. 

I asked for numbers about nurses use food banks and what wage bracket are they in? I'm asking for numbers..

Some people enjoyed and like zero hours contracts. 

What do you called a fair wage and salary? What bracket is fair? 

Which people? Who are they? Where are your numbers? I'm asking for numbers...and names.

 

[Batman.]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Which people? Who are they? Where are your numbers? I'm asking for numbers...and names.

 

Mrs B. Ashley, County Durham.

[jim mk2]

Will June be the end of May?  It's unlikely, even with Corbyn's rise in opinion polls, but after Brexit and Trump you never know.

The likelihood is the Tories will waltz home again with FPTP and with a majority of the electorate not voting for them. Our political system is broke

[rhodie]

The reality is a lot of folk that vote, do not understand Macro-economics, not their fault I might add, they aren`t taught it in school. I am not by any means all knowing, but I have learnt the basics. The fable that the Tories are constantly spreading that we have to live within our means is complete nonsense, Governments need to spend money, as do the working classes. We need to be borrowing while money is cheap and we need to invest in services and building, we need to get people spending not stashing money in off shore bank accounts. That is how we can give everyone a better life and boost the economy. Don`t forget every pound spent gives back to the treasury in taxes and duties. When times are good we should concentrate on paying down our debt. The Tory strategy of austerity, actually stifles growth, creates higher levels of debt and deprivation and expands the wealth gap even further.  

[Mike E]

28 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Will June be the end of May?  It's unlikely, even with Corbyn's rise in opinion polls, but after Brexit and Trump you never know.

The likelihood is the Tories will waltz home again with FPTP and with a majority of the electorate not voting for them. Our political system is broke

In fairness, that's what happens when you have so many options. Only in a 2 or 3 party vote will an absolute majority be likely.

[Baz]

6 hours ago, rhodie said:

The reality is a lot of folk that vote, do not understand Macro-economics, not their fault I might add, they aren`t taught it in school. I am not by any means all knowing, but I have learnt the basics. The fable that the Tories are constantly spreading that we have to live within our means is complete nonsense, Governments need to spend money, as do the working classes. We need to be borrowing while money is cheap and we need to invest in services and building, we need to get people spending not stashing money in off shore bank accounts. That is how we can give everyone a better life and boost the economy. Don`t forget every pound spent gives back to the treasury in taxes and duties. When times are good we should concentrate on paying down our debt. The Tory strategy of austerity, actually stifles growth, creates higher levels of debt and deprivation and expands the wealth gap even further.  

The exact reason why austerity was an error. For every penny you give to the poorest in society, you get the vast majority back quickly in tax. The exact opposite to the wealthiest.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Do people want less taxes and cutbacks or more taxes for everybody and more borrowing and spending?

Under Labour, only those earning £80k+ will be subjected to tax rises. Other than that, things stay as they are. Labour will use that money to invest in essential services, and reverse cutbacks.

The Tory policies are actually more tax-friendly than Labour policies, at least to those earning above £10k. However, they will continue cutbacks to public services. Can those services take another 5 years of that?

This election is the most black and white we've had in my adult lifetime. Whichever philosophy you believe in - whether it's worth having that extra money in your pocket (please do calculate that amount first) at the expense of reduced public services, or whether it's having less money in your pocket, but with better public services - the parties you can vote for today are very cut and dry.

It's like the 80s again, I assume.

 

[JBiz]

17 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Corbyn's speech today on Terrorism.and extremism was ill advised and shows that he is soft on terrorism and would give in on foriegn matters. 

His time of the speech was extremed very bad

What was ill timed about it? I've read it a few times and he repeats the suggestion that it takes no blame from those responsible, but yet it's called an excuse?

This reminds me of all politicians at the moment  with Corbyn - they are in "play the man" mode. Well done Krishnan Guru Murthy!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-michael-fallon-slates-jeremy-10508519

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, Baz said:

The exact reason why austerity was an error. For every penny you give to the poorest in society, you get the vast majority back quickly in tax. The exact opposite to the wealthiest.

It wasn't an error Baz, it was deliberate policy. All my working life the Tories have railed against what they used to describe as " The Socialist Ratchet ". I E public opinion wouldn't let them reverse any of the progressive social policies that had been enacted by various Labour government over the years.

The crisis gave them the perfect opportunity to roll up parts of the welfare state that they never wanted in the first place.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Biz said:

What was ill timed about it? I've read it a few times and he repeats the suggestion that it takes no blame from those responsible, but yet it's called an excuse?

This reminds me of all politicians at the moment  with Corbyn - they are in "play the man" mode. Well done Krishnan Guru Murthy!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-michael-fallon-slates-jeremy-10508519

I agree, how long would be long enough before the election campaigning could  restart ? We needed to get the democratic show back on the road.  Corbyn was quite right to point out that as long as we're bombing and arming repressive regimes in the Middle East we're not making any friends with the populations of these countries both away and at home. Nobodies excusing these atrocities we're just trying to make some sense as to why they're happening.