[Archived] Election called for 8th June

[Jimbo]

What is trhe feeling about Duncan Miller ? Can he produce enough of an upset locally in the way Matin Bell did in Tatton ?

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, perthblue02 said:

Relevancy is important, we have a potential home secretary that is imo both  racist and anti-British will leave to one side her failings as a politician and a hypocrite (granted the hypocrisy does seem to be a prerequisite when becoming a politician in most cases), So in this particular case the past is very relevant to the present and future as that leopard despite its best efforts to cover it will never change it's spots.

If you read a previous post of mine you will see I criticised the Conservative campaign and their attitude being so far ahead in the polls, in fact criticised the standard of politicians on both sides, and I will admit to being right leaning but open to change hence my comments in that particular post regarding the Labour party manifesto.

I must admit this time having to cast my vote in the Blackburn constituency, apathy and potentially not bothering to go through the hassle of a proxy vote was the way I was leaning until Duncan Miller announced he was standing . Will not make a difference to a E grade Labour candidate walking it (I shudder at the thought of her being on the front bench of a Government, having Venky's associated with the good name of Blackburn is bad enough! 

Unfortunately with the system that is currently in operation, casting a vote in a safe seat like Blackburn has no effect on the overall outcome , would be interesting if a system was in operation where votes cast elected the MP for a constituency , but to actually elect a Government all votes would be counted towards an overall total. Might go some way to ending voter apathy as even a vote in a safe seat would have some baring.

Having yet to watch the latest debate, but judging by feeds on social media (taking into account most of those I receive posts /tweets from are left leaning) seems it was a car crash for the conservatives, be interesting to see if this sees any change to peoples potential voting intentions. As both Brexit and the American elections have shown , expect the unexpected

I'm no fan of Abbott, but it seems silly to bring some ancient questionable quotes into a discussion about who you'd want to be future Home Secretary. It would be more pertinent to look at recent people in the post, funnily enough the one from 2010-15 went missing more often than not.

You could have the most centric views, the squeakiest reputation and still be terrible in a job. In terms of her remark about not feeling British, (a quote older than me) I personally have had times when I don't feel British - especially when I hear the likes of Farage and his followers talk.

I acknowledge you did make some assessments earlier- but you seem to be the only one!

As for Kate Hollern; I really don't see what the problem is with her. She lives or has lived in the area, she's worked her way up as a councillor and from a few times I've seen her talk I've agreed with most of what she has said.

Could she/FA/Prem done more with Venkys? That's another question. Graham Jones will be getting my vote anyway.

[perthblue02]

2 hours ago, Jimbo said:

What is trhe feeling about Duncan Miller ? Can he produce enough of an upset locally in the way Matin Bell did in Tatton ?

No chance of that happening in Blackburn, red rosette + pig = victory

Duncan standing is not about winning anyway, its about awareness, and in that respect it is a success regardless of number of votes

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

But relevancy is important. If we are talking about history - the relevant aspect when making an informed decisions has to be record in government, not "Hamas, Hamas, Hamas you invited Hamas into the House of Commons!!" That kind of tactic goes against reasonable politics. Krishna Guru Murthy responded absolutely fantastically last night with David Davis- politics is only brought "into disrepute" when politicians lie or change tact. Something this government has done continuously - in the very (relevant) near past.

Im still yet to hear anybody criticise the Conservative campaign who is pro-conservative, but I know that I would be ripping Labour to bits if they continued to use empty sound bites, have no manifesto, have no costings and not get involved in debates.

I was teetering on apathy for this vote that was always going to end up with a Tory majority but Labour and particularly Corbyn have won be me over big style. I always had respect for him as a more honest politician but he has blasted this "can't lead" argument and is a far better orator and public speaker than I or many others gave him credit for.

I still expect a majority for May, and if she survives this debacle I can see the Conservative party doing untold damage to their reputation and the country. The positive long term, people are starting to wake up, 5 more years of austerity will have the majority in uproar! 

I'm not sure even the Tories would be foolish enough to carry on with their stupid Austerity agenda for much longer. Expect another U turn from them in the future. That's the good thing about Corbyn's campaign, he's turned the debate around and moved the agenda leftwards. People are sick to the back teeth of this downward spiral and are realising it doesn't have to be like this.

[chaddyrovers]

What do people of Tim Farron and his policies?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

What do people of Tim Farron and his policies?

He's a Rovers fan apparently so he's ok. I can't take the Lib Dems seriously after their Coalition debacle. 

[Mike E]

I think Tim's ok.

On their policy of raising the lower tax bands, I think it more reliably raises the £6bn than the Labour tax on the top 5%. Imo, however, the tax rises needs to be across all tax bands. We are ALL responsible, not just one or the other.

I agree with their stance of giving another 'final' Brexit vote once we know the deals, but I also just want that over with. It's possibly more complex than we public can appreciate.

However, I'd need more information on their proposal to legalise cannabis. It goes against my instinct, but I do wonder if legal prescription would take away a whole black market for our police to worry about.

[chaddyrovers]

Here's how we think the result would look if the election were held today:

CON 362 (+32)
LAB 206 (-26)

Read more: https://t.co/MlYKM1LC7q https://t.co/OJuktlWbfO

[den]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Here's how we think the result would look if the election were held today:

CON 362 (+32)
LAB 206 (-26)

Read more: https://t.co/MlYKM1LC7q https://t.co/OJuktlWbfO

About us

 

Britain Elects is a poll aggregation service that aims to deliver non-partisan commentary and analysis of the state of British politics and public opinion as well as the provision of an open source archive of opinion polls and election results, be they council or parliamentary.

Britain Elects is entirely voluntary, set up by those with an interest and experience in consultancy and politics.

Those behind Britain Elects:

Lily Jayne Summers
Co Founder. Activist and student at Swansea University.
Lily sadly passed away in December 2016.

Ben Walker
Co Founder. Former consultant; now student at Chester University.

Dayle Taylor
Former student at Chester University; now in communications.

[Claytons Left Boot]

Regarding austerity, is there really any point? If you look at www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk you will see the country's national debt is fast approaching £1.9 trillion. I last went on that website two to three years ago, when the figure was around £1.3 trillion. I fully understand the need to 'get our house in order,' but in reality it's never going to happen and the aforementioned figure is likely to continue to rise at a rate of knots.

I read somewhere that Norway's national debt was zero, in fact I think they had a surplus due to investing well their North Sea oil revenues amongst other things. In practical terms, does anyone on here know how it works. With the exception of Norway, most, if not all, EC countries will have fair sized national debts that will never be able to be repaid.  Does some central body draw a line at some point and we all start again?

[chaddyrovers]

David Davis on BBCQT says 58% of trade is with non EU countries and 42% with EU. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Claytons Left Boot said:

Regarding austerity, is there really any point? If you look at www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk you will see the country's national debt is fast approaching £1.9 trillion. I last went on that website two to three years ago, when the figure was around £1.3 trillion. I fully understand the need to 'get our house in order,' but in reality it's never going to happen and the aforementioned figure is likely to continue to rise at a rate of knots.

I read somewhere that Norway's national debt was zero, in fact I think they had a surplus due to investing well their North Sea oil revenues amongst other things. In practical terms, does anyone on here know how it works. With the exception of Norway, most, if not all, EC countries will have fair sized national debts that will never be able to be repaid.  Does some central body draw a line at some point and we all start again?

We could have also done what Norway did but Mrs Thatcher preferred to use the windfall to finance mass un-employment so she could crush the trade unions. Looking at the state the economy is in at the moment that worked out really well.

There was a series of programmes on this very subject on BBC Radio 4, a year or two back.

American oil exectutives were laughing their socks off at the easy ride the Thatcher Government gave them over North Sea oil.

[Baz]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

David Davis on BBCQT says 58% of trade is with non EU countries and 42% with EU. 

 

Yeah it's stupid to risk 42% of your exports isn't it.

Actually the amount is around 50% if you take the 2 to 3 year fluctuations out.

 

[Husky]

 

In Blackburn, one person does not really have one vote, they have the equivalent of 0.137 votes.

The power of voters in this constituency is based on the probability of the seat changing hands and its size.

While you might think that every vote counts equally, where you live in the UK has a huge effect on your power to influence the election.

http://m.voterpower.org.uk/blackburn

Because of this rigged system I shall not be voting.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Baz said:

Yeah it's stupid to risk 42% of your exports isn't it.

Actually the amount is around 50% if you take the 2 to 3 year fluctuations out.

 

We want a good Brexit deal but shouldnt give in to the every EU demands. I wouldnt be giving them any money either. 

We will get better trade deal with US, Canada, India, Australia, Japan, China and Brazil. 

 

[Baz]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

We want a good Brexit deal but shouldnt give in to the every EU demands. I wouldnt be giving them any money either. 

We will get better trade deal with US, Canada, India, Australia, Japan, China and Brazil. 

 

Would you risk 48% of your income on a potential deal?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Baz said:

Would you risk 48% of your income on a potential deal?

Thats why we have to get a good deal and be tough with the EU..

They need us as much as we need them. 

We pay more in than most countries. 

But the UK voters voted to leave. I voted to leave. Did you vote to stay?

[JBiz]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

What do people of Tim Farron and his policies?

Still waiting for you to answer questions, let me recap;

1: Do you have any faith in May? If you do, how can you see past the countless u-turns, the lies and the inability to answer questions - which makes it easier for her to not show up? Countless other examples.

2. So far election campaign by the conservatives has been a mess, yes or no. Why?

 

As for Tim Farron - he's ok but to be honest the brexit boat has sailed so there's no point going for another referendum. Instantly makes him pointless in this election.

As for David Davis. Still no concrete answers on what a brexit could mean even after 12 months in charge. Hasn't even considered the uk issues such as a hard border in Ireland and failed to honour an agreement to discuss it with areas that voted majority remain (Scotland and NI) before triggering article 50.

No deal will mean absolute chaos for more than a third of our trade. I consider that option lunacy. I do believe that trade and skills can be utilised long term from other countries world wide but it's not the instant, developed intricate trade agreements we have in the EU that took time to build.

We will also lose a huge shield against big corporations without the EU. Look at Ireland and Apple. Does anyone think our government or foreign secretary (Boris Johnson) could've recovered the 11bn that the commission achieved? 

 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Biz said:

Still waiting for you to answer questions, let me recap;

1: Do you have any faith in May? If you do, how can you see past the countless u-turns, the lies and the inability to answer questions - which makes it easier for her to not show up? Countless other examples.

2. So far election campaign by the conservatives has been a mess, yes or no. Why?

 

As for Tim Farron - he's ok but to be honest the brexit boat has sailed so there's no point going for another referendum. Instantly makes him pointless in this election.

As for David Davis. Still no concrete answers on what a brexit could mean even after 12 months in charge. Hasn't even considered the uk issues such as a hard border in Ireland and failed to honour an agreement to discuss it with areas that voted majority remain (Scotland and NI) before triggering article 50.

No deal will mean absolute chaos for more than a third of our trade. I consider that option lunacy. I do believe that trade and skills can be utilised long term from other countries world wide but it's not the instant, developed intricate trade agreements we have in the EU that took time to build.

We will also lose a huge shield against big corporations without the EU. Look at Ireland and Apple. Does anyone think our government or foreign secretary (Boris Johnson) could've recovered the 11bn that the commission achieved? 

 

I have more faith in May then Corbyn or Farron. 

I havent seen the Debate from Wednesday night as I was working. 

I feel the debate that Channel 4/Sky News or the BBC one that David Dimbley will be hosting. 

Brexit will be long draw out process but some things have been discuss like Laws, immigration and money..

We need a trade deal with the EU but no EU laws or them demanding money from us. 

The US Speaker of House says they are ready to do a trade deal with us as soon as possible

[JBiz]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I have more faith in May then Corbyn or Farron. 

I havent seen the Debate from Wednesday night as I was working. 

I feel the debate that Channel 4/Sky News or the BBC one that David Dimbley will be hosting. 

Brexit will be long draw out process but some things have been discuss like Laws, immigration and money..

We need a trade deal with the EU but no EU laws or them demanding money from us. 

The US Speaker of House says they are ready to do a trade deal with us as soon as possible

Why more faith in May? What tells you she can negotiate when she can't debate? 

No EU laws can't happen because some EU residents will remain. No comment on the Apple 1% example eith EU financial commission protecting us from tax evasion? Also what about the other parts of UK I mentioned that voted to remain- other UK countries?! 

If no deal is made it severely impacts lots of industries, it's not something you just fix by saying "Murica tu't rescue". Farming for example doesn't have 6 months to wait for new rules on seasonal labour and exports! Lamb was the example on BBC QT and I think it would go from 0% to 40+% tax on export. 

You're glossing over a lot, it's massively important to take full stock of what's going on.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Biz said:

Why more faith in May? What tells you she can negotiate when she can't debate? 

No EU laws can't happen because some EU residents will remain. No comment on the Apple 1% example eith EU financial commission protecting us from tax evasion? Also what about the other parts of UK I mentioned that voted to remain- other UK countries?! 

If no deal is made it severely impacts lots of industries, it's not something you just fix by saying "Murica tu't rescue". Farming for example doesn't have 6 months to wait for new rules on seasonal labour and exports! Lamb was the example on BBC QT and I think it would go from 0% to 40+% tax on export. 

You're glossing over a lot, it's massively important to take full stock of what's going on.

May got over 100 laws back from the EU. 

She has made mistakes but I wouldnt vote Labour or Corbyn. If you have Blair or David Millband or Benn in charge then I would have a choice to make. With Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and McCluskey running the Labour party. No chance would I vote Labour..

Why more faith in Corbyn?

 

Biz, we had a vote and 52% of voters choose to leave. Majority voted to leave. I voted to leave and would do again

We can have our own laws for EU people under a UK bill of rights.

If no deal? Lets start negotiates and see where we get to. Lets talk the country up instead of us being negative and talking us down. 

I dont glossed over anything but I got to look after what most important to me and my family. Other people have to do the same. We all have most important issues. 

 

[Mike E]

The thing that bugs me about May's 'No deal is better than a bad deal' shtick is that the worst possible deal the EU will ask for is...

The terms of being an EU member.

Ergo, 'no deal' simply throws away 42% of trade, and she is saying that is preferable to keeping it by paying a little more?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Mike E said:

The thing that bugs me about May's 'No deal is better than a bad deal' shtick is that the worst possible deal the EU will ask for is...

The terms of being an EU member.

Ergo, 'no deal' simply throws away 42% of trade, and she is saying that is preferable to keeping it by paying a little more?

How much is a little more? Considering how much we paid into the EU and what that extra money could be used for like NHS,etc..

 

[Mike E]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

How much is a little more? Considering how much we paid into the EU and what that extra money could be used for like NHS,etc..

 

'A little more' is the terms that we would have as an EU member without a special deal. Remember that our current deal is so heavily IN OUR FAVOUR, that we're stupid to give it up and frankly the EU were stupid to ever let us have it.

Chaddy, there will be NO extra money for the NHS just from leaving the EU! In the short term, there may be a spike, but medium and long-term? Loss of nearly half of our trade = buggered economy (and we're already the worst performing economy of any developed nation).

THINK instead of just regurgitating stuff from media (especially stuff that from a discredited bus campaign).

They say a country gets the Government it deserves and I'm starting to think we deserve a homophobic, transphobic PM who wants to legalise animal abuse.

[JBiz]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

May got over 100 laws back from the EU. 

She has made mistakes but I wouldnt vote Labour or Corbyn. If you have Blair or David Millband or Benn in charge then I would have a choice to make. With Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and McCluskey running the Labour party. No chance would I vote Labour..

Why more in Corbyn?

 

Biz, we had a vote and 52% of voters choose to leave. Majority voted to leave. I voted to leave and would do again

We can have our own laws for EU people under a UK bill of rights.

If no deal? Lets start negotiates and see where we get to. Lets talk the country up instead of us being negative and talking us down. 

I dont glossed over anything but I got to look after what most important to me and my family. Other people have to do the same. We all have most important issues. 

 

May got 100 laws back from uk? Can you expand on that makes no sense.

What's milli or Benn got to do with it, if you don't want to vote for them tell me why - if it's personality then that's up to you. The current Labour manifesto (regardless of personalities) has an interest in a good NHS, schools et al- don't repeat (gloss over) the 5bn more in schools arguments from Cons that doesn't add up. (Not even costed manifesto)

I don't need the percentage of the referendum vote quoting at me, that's the standard retort for anyone who cannot discuss the actual connotations of the decision. You ignored again. Scotland voted remain. Why didn't they get their discussion pre article 50? Don't gloss over debate with "it's democracy". You must be mad if you think rewriting (a minimum) 750 individual financial agreements is something as simple as "think positive" platitudes or talking up the country.

This isnt simple. Long term could be positive but you are ignoring stark evidence that the near future could be a disaster. This isn't about ACCEPTING brexit, it's about seeing the cliff that the conservatives are about to push us off.

The same politicians who advised, and used scandalmongery to convince people to vote Remain!!

 

Its to far fetched to be real. The last bit about looking after your family, would you feel the same after a few hypothetical questions;

 

1. You had family member, wife, child, parent, relative etc who had to sell their house and/or give up their job to pay for treatment for a loved one.

2. You had family member, wife, child, parent, relative etc who worked in a public sector - with pay rises fixed for 3 years to 1% and inflation set to rise. Prime examples, newly qualified or those trying to save up.

3. You had an older family member, parent, relative etc who lost benefits such as a winter fuel allowance and suffered?

4. You had a younger family member, child, relative etc who had just finished their degree with 50k debt and no jobs?

5. More to summarise, lack of housing, price of housing, public transport issues, areas of crime etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.