[Archived] Election called for 8th June

[Mike E]

I do wish people would stop calling us a democracy.

We democratically elect our MPs, but are utterly powerless beyond that.

The only way to vote properly is for the best manifesto and local MP to suit you.

Voting based on the leader is nonsense. What if they resign and are replaced by Mr. Burns in a wig (as Cameron was)?

Finally, I've seen so many people claim that 'May is the one I trust to negotiate the best Brexit deal for Britain.' Unfortunately, if you haven't been listening for 3 months, the negotiator isn't Ms. May, it's Mr. Davis.

[Dreyski]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I dont glossed over anything but I got to look after what most important to me and my family.

Voted out.

Would vote out again.

Will vote Conservative.

'I dont glossed over anything but I got to look after what most important to me and my family.'

[K-Hod]

8 hours ago, Husky said:

 

In Blackburn, one person does not really have one vote, they have the equivalent of 0.137 votes.

The power of voters in this constituency is based on the probability of the seat changing hands and its size.

While you might think that every vote counts equally, where you live in the UK has a huge effect on your power to influence the election.

http://m.voterpower.org.uk/blackburn

Because of this rigged system I shall not be voting.

Proportional representation has been needed for quite some time IMO.

[perthblue02]

5 hours ago, Mike E said:

I do wish people would stop calling us a democracy.

We democratically elect our MPs, but are utterly powerless beyond that.

Would you be prepared to go to a polling station ever other day to vote on policies suggested by anybody with the right to vote .?

For instance in the new democracy as a registered UK voter I would like to place a ban on Cadbury's products until they reinstate the original size , original recipe curly wurly , I am sure that some people will agree but how many would turn out to vote considering we have just voted yesterday on

A proposal from Mrs F Ukipper ,Kent  that the traffic light sequence should be Blue , White ,Red instead of Red, Amber, Greeen,

 A proposal from Mr V Angry , Ribble Valley  that anybody who voted Conservative in the past from the North should be shot

A proposal from Mr J Corbyn ,Islington that a naked statue of Diane Abbot with Martin McGuiness and Gerry Adams suckling on her breasts should be placed in Trafalgar square.

and finally  from Mr Mike E, Lancashire that this new democracy is a pain in the arse and we should go back to the old Democratic system

 

Of course all in jest (apart from the curly wurly bit) but to say the UK is not a democracy is stretching it a bit, of course you could always approach your MP to ask them to propose a rule that if a MP does a u-turn or does not carry out any promises made they must resign immediately, good luck with that one  

Is it perfect no, is it a democracy - yes

 

 

[Claytons Left Boot]

8 hours ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

Regarding austerity, is there really any point? If you look at www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk you will see the country's national debt is fast approaching £1.9 trillion. I last went on that website two to three years ago, when the figure was around £1.3 trillion. I fully understand the need to 'get our house in order,' but in reality it's never going to happen and the aforementioned figure is likely to continue to rise at a rate of knots.

I read somewhere that Norway's national debt was zero, in fact I think they had a surplus due to investing well their North Sea oil revenues amongst other things. In practical terms, does anyone on here know how it works. With the exception of Norway, most, if not all, EC countries will have fair sized national debts that will never be able to be repaid.  Does some central body draw a line at some point and we all start again?

To answer my own questions, the National Debt is the money borrowed by the Government through the issue of securities by the Treasury and other Government departments. A line, therefore, will not be drawn at some point and I am assuming we will have to get out of our own mess ourselves.

[chaddyrovers]

8 hours ago, Mike E said:

'A little more' is the terms that we would have as an EU member without a special deal. Remember that our current deal is so heavily IN OUR FAVOUR, that we're stupid to give it up and frankly the EU were stupid to ever let us have it.

Chaddy, there will be NO extra money for the NHS just from leaving the EU! In the short term, there may be a spike, but medium and long-term? Loss of nearly half of our trade = buggered economy (and we're already the worst performing economy of any developed nation).

THINK instead of just regurgitating stuff from media (especially stuff that from a discredited bus campaign).

They say a country gets the Government it deserves and I'm starting to think we deserve a homophobic, transphobic PM who wants to legalise animal abuse.

we give the EU 12.9 billion pounds each year,so we could some of that to give the NHS and Eductaion.

loss of 42% of trade? Not if we get a good Brexit deal. Let the negotiates happen.

Apart from the past 3 months we have had one of the faster economy in the world. But clearly some countries, financial companies are very nervous about Brexit and the outcome of the election

8 hours ago, Biz said:

May got 100 laws back from uk? Can you expand on that makes no sense.

What's milli or Benn got to do with it, if you don't want to vote for them tell me why - if it's personality then that's up to you. The current Labour manifesto (regardless of personalities) has an interest in a good NHS, schools et al- don't repeat (gloss over) the 5bn more in schools arguments from Cons that doesn't add up. (Not even costed manifesto)

I don't need the percentage of the referendum vote quoting at me, that's the standard retort for anyone who cannot discuss the actual connotations of the decision. You ignored again. Scotland voted remain. Why didn't they get their discussion pre article 50? Don't gloss over debate with "it's democracy". You must be mad if you think rewriting (a minimum) 750 individual financial agreements is something as simple as "think positive" platitudes or talking up the country.

This isnt simple. Long term could be positive but you are ignoring stark evidence that the near future could be a disaster. This isn't about ACCEPTING brexit, it's about seeing the cliff that the conservatives are about to push us off.

The same politicians who advised, and used scandalmongery to convince people to vote Remain!!

 

Its to far fetched to be real. The last bit about looking after your family, would you feel the same after a few hypothetical questions;

 

1. You had family member, wife, child, parent, relative etc who had to sell their house and/or give up their job to pay for treatment for a loved one.

2. You had family member, wife, child, parent, relative etc who worked in a public sector - with pay rises fixed for 3 years to 1% and inflation set to rise. Prime examples, newly qualified or those trying to save up.

3. You had an older family member, parent, relative etc who lost benefits such as a winter fuel allowance and suffered?

4. You had a younger family member, child, relative etc who had just finished their degree with 50k debt and no jobs?

5. More to summarise, lack of housing, price of housing, public transport issues, areas of crime etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.

 

I have fully explained why I wont Vote Labour or for Corbyn but you don't accept the reasons.  

I will quoted the figures tho, 52% of people who voted want to leave the EU. People are fed up with the EU and everything about them. Look at the 3 key reasons why people voted to leave the EU.

WE will get a good Brexit deal as the EU need us just as much as we need them

Near future could be a disaster? That is your quote or the near future could be a success. who knows. We cant predict the future

You have posted 5 hypothetical questions and I have experience of 4 out of 5 of those questions actually.

I have family and friends who haven't had a pay rise for years in the public sector but whilst they are happy about it, They have good financial sense and live within their means.

My parents who are both retired could lose their winter fuel allowance or some of it. Would they miss it? no. does it help them? yes but Both have worked hard over their working life and have savings in the bank.

About 14 years ago, I had a great opportunity to go to university and studied Business but the summer before I was set to go, I decide to within from it and go and find a job. even 14 years there weren't the job out there and a lot of jobs where on the job experience was required. Did I regret it? sometimes but I have the life I have and over that time, I have met my missus and have a good bunch of friends from it. My current job is nothing special and I earned between the 20 to 25k salary now. Not everyone has to go to University to get a good job in life, maybe before people go to university they need to look to see whether they will be job after the course? Also we need to put in closer links businesses and universities so we get the best talent in our own companies

Housing? I have just bought a House for me and my family to move into which with happen within the next 2 months. Where I live in Accrington, there is plenty of housing for sale available. But some people don't have a deposit saved up.
 

7 hours ago, Mike E said:

I do wish people would stop calling us a democracy.

We democratically elect our MPs, but are utterly powerless beyond that.

The only way to vote properly is for the best manifesto and local MP to suit you.

Voting based on the leader is nonsense. What if they resign and are replaced by Mr. Burns in a wig (as Cameron was)?

Finally, I've seen so many people claim that 'May is the one I trust to negotiate the best Brexit deal for Britain.' Unfortunately, if you haven't been listening for 3 months, the negotiator isn't Ms. May, it's Mr. Davis.

We do live in DEMOCRACY even tho you don't like who are in Government.

Is Corbyn and Labour good enough to be in power even when more then half of his elected MP's don't want him as Leader of the Party. The Labour Party have gone backwards since Tony Blair's days.

 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

When we were at war in 1939-45 the whole of the British economy was placed on a war footing. The British  Engineering industry was turned over almost exclusively to war work. Hardly anything of real value was exported. Most other industries were the same. At the same time masses of machinery, military equipment, aircraft and armoured vehicles were bought from the USA. We fielded vast numbers of fighting troops that all had to be paid for. Fighting the war for 6 years cost eyewatering amounts of money we were never going to get back.

Did the sky fall in at the war's end ?   Did we decide we needed to screw the population into the ground to pay for all this ?

On the contrary , the post war Labour Government initiated an expansionary programme of house building etc and introduced our NHS.

I've said before the Tory  " Austerity " programme was a deliberately planned campaign with the intention of rolling back the welfare state. We're no better off economically after 7 years of this trashing of the social system and this lot want more of the same.

[chaddyrovers]

http://dailym.ai/2su8HFy

[K-Hod]

Chaddy, re the Brexit slogan used on their campaign bus, don't you remember Farage (who I don't blame by the way, it wasn't his idea) the day after on TV admitting that we wouldn't spend the £350 Million on the NHS? A lot of people were hoodwinked with that.....

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Chaddy, re the Brexit slogan used on their campaign bus, don't you remember Farage (who I don't blame by the way, it wasn't his idea) the day after on TV admitting that we wouldn't spend the £350 Million on the NHS? A lot of people were hoodwinked with that.....

Look at how much we get back from the EU. 12.9 Billion pounds

[K-Hod]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Look at how much we get back from the EU. 12.9 Billion pounds

I'm not saying it shouldn't be spent on the NHS (though I very much doubt it will be), but I'm saying we need to be careful not to cut our nose off to spite our face. I really hope Brexit is a success, bloody hell, I think we all do! But, it needs to be managed VERY carefully and threats of walking away with no deal really wouldn't be good news for many in Britain IMO.

[JBiz]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

1. I have fully explained why I wont Vote Labour or for Corbyn but you don't accept the reasons.  

2. I will quoted the figures tho, 52% of people who voted want to leave the EU. People are fed up with the EU and everything about them. Look at the 3 key reasons why people voted to leave the EU.

3. WE will get a good Brexit deal as the EU need us just as much as we need them

Near future could be a disaster? That is your quote or the near future could be a success. who knows. We cant predict the future

You have posted 5 hypothetical questions and I have experience of 4 out of 5 of those questions actually.

4. I have family and friends who haven't had a pay rise for years in the public sector but whilst they are happy about it, They have good financial sense and live within their means.

5. My parents who are both retired could lose their winter fuel allowance or some of it. Would they miss it? no. does it help them? yes but Both have worked hard over their working life and have savings in the bank.

6. About 14 years ago, I had a great opportunity to go to university and studied Business but the summer before I was set to go, I decide to within from it and go and find a job. even 14 years there weren't the job out there and a lot of jobs where on the job experience was required. Did I regret it? sometimes but I have the life I have and over that time, I have met my missus and have a good bunch of friends from it. My current job is nothing special and I earned between the 20 to 25k salary now. Not everyone has to go to University to get a good job in life, maybe before people go to university they need to look to see whether they will be job after the course? Also we need to put in closer links businesses and universities so we get the best talent in our own companies

7. Housing? I have just bought a House for me and my family to move into which with happen within the next 2 months. Where I live in Accrington, there is plenty of housing for sale available. But some people don't have a deposit saved up.
 

We do live in DEMOCRACY even tho you don't like who are in Government.

8. Is Corbyn and Labour good enough to be in power even when more then half of his elected MP's don't want him as Leader of the Party. The Labour Party have gone backwards since Tony Blair's days.

 

 

1. No you haven't, you just said you wouldn't vote for them and prefer the others. Is it a tribalist answer or what? Are we talking any pig in a blue rosette?

2. YOU ARE NOT READING MY POSTS. I KNOW THE FIGURES FOR GOD SAKE, that is not the argument. The argument presides on what the best course of action is, and the ideas that "no deal is better than a bad deal" is a disastrous notion. Answer that question, rather than skirting, glossing and simply IGNORING the discussion in favour of this same line. Its absolutely infuriating.

3. This "think positive" argument is so ridiculous that I am bordering on giving up replying. What part of this do you not understand; We have hundreds (if not thousands) of individual agreements on trade rules, laws, taxes and partnerships etc that've taken years to build up. THEY CANNOT BE REPLACED BY THE US ET AL INSTANTLY, if we have no deal. Thus 1 month, 3 month, 6 month - the damage could be done.

The discussions have to factor that for BOTH sides, not a head case UK mentality to severe ties completely. David Davis said he had compiled "hundreds of pages" on Brexit... In 12 months?!??!?!!??! Thats less than 1 a day, they are not prepared for this like you are being told

Is this a deliberate typo; "I have family and friends who haven't had a pay rise for years in the public sector but whilst they are happy about it, They have good financial sense and live within their means."

They are happy about it? I assume you meant aren't. Would you carry on working in public service if your wage is going to be cut every year for so many years? Lets get this straight, a 1% rise is a pay cut with high inflation.

5. Thanks for the answer, the big picture though, many will lose out who have not had the ability to save or accidents/illness can happen. You also said they worked hard their entire life, that allowance should be safeguarded like the pensions should be triple locked.

6. Yes some university degrees offer less opportunities afterwards, but thats not the point. A mortgage of 50k to become a highly skilled and valued member of a public service like doctors, nurses, teachers etc.. It cannot be right. The bursary for nurses was a pittance, and since we will need to lower immigration with Brexit, the 1/5 of NHS employees who are migrants will need to be replaced by people can afford and be encouraged to learn these skills. I agree on commercial funding in employment/training as it forces shareholders to reinvest. The current government doesn't do enough to make big business invest in training here.

7. I am the same as you, I own own house through some inheritance and the main reason; This area the prices are cheap. We have to think further than just Accrington though, and still - the average house in the UK is 10 times both our yearly gross... What must it be like trying to get onto the property ladder if you're brought up in or near a city - especially the education hotspots where lots of houses have been bought to let.

8. The last part  - MP's serve their constituents and the Labour Party overall voted to keep Corbyn as leader. Some may disagree or think he isn't up to the job but listen to their reasons and make up your own, don't just say you agree with them. You have to absorb the views, listen to both arguments and answers, get discussion from lots of different "agenda" because you will see that lots of the "establishment" fear his kind of politics. Why? not a fear for the country but a fear that the inequality gap might stop widening!

 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

47 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I'm not saying it shouldn't be spent on the NHS (though I very much doubt it will be), but I'm saying we need to be careful not to cut our nose off to spite our face. I really hope Brexit is a success, bloody hell, I think we all do! But, it needs to be managed VERY carefully and threats of walking away with no deal really wouldn't be good news for many in Britain IMO.

For me the Brexit issue is a bit like Rovers appointing Coyle. My lmmediate gut feeling was it was going to lead to relegation. Should I say nothing and let relegation happen or should I voice my deep misgivings ? I walked away from the club at the time but I'm voicing my misgivings about Brexit  now.

It'll lead to our relegation in terms of our standing in the World.

[perthblue02]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

For me the Brexit issue is a bit like Rovers appointing Coyle. My lmmediate gut feeling was it was going to lead to relegation. Should I say nothing and let relegation happen or should I voice my deep misgivings ? Well I'm voicing my misgivings about Brexit  now.

It'll lead to our relegation in terms of our standing in the World.

Get behind the Brexit FFS!

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

 

Is this a deliberate typo; "I have family and friends who haven't had a pay rise for years in the public sector but whilst they are happy about it, They have good financial sense and live within their means."

They are happy about it? I assume you meant aren't. Would you carry on working in public service if your wage is going to be cut every year for so many years? Lets get this straight, a 1% rise is a pay cut with high inflation.

 

6. Yes some university degrees offer less opportunities afterwards, but thats not the point. A mortgage of 50k to become a highly skilled and valued member of a public service like doctors, nurses, teachers etc.. It cannot be right. The bursary for nurses was a pittance, and since we will need to lower immigration with Brexit, the 1/5 of NHS employees who are migrants will need to be replaced by people can afford and be encouraged to learn these skills. I agree on commercial funding in employment/training as it forces shareholders to reinvest. The current government doesn't do enough to make big business invest in training here.

7. I am the same as you, I own own house through some inheritance and the main reason; This area the prices are cheap. We have to think further than just Accrington though, and still - the average house in the UK is 10 times both our yearly gross... What must it be like trying to get onto the property ladder if you're brought up in or near a city - especially the education hotspots where lots of houses have been bought to let.

 

 

 

it was a typo and nothing more.

on lower immigration, my way would be if people have skills that we need like Doctors and Nurses then they should allowed in.

on the cost of university? yeah it can be expensive granted and maybe it should be lower. Don't they not have to pay it back until they earn above a certain wage bracket? is this correct.

Yes other areas can been expensive but in most cases you are paying for the area not the house. They are some new houses been built in my area and compare to an area in Whalley they are no better built or different to the ones in my area but are over 50% higher in price.

[Dreams of 1995]

Chaddy's nowt but a journos wet dream. Bored of seeing him just recite sound bites from Tory rags.

"CORBYN'S NOT A LEADER": Says the Sun, the Mail and Chaddy.

"MAY IS STRONG AND STABLE": Says the Sun, the Mail and Chaddy.

Boooooooooring.

Why shouldn't education be free or children receive school meals? Why shouldn't there be a free at the point of service NHS in a developed Western country? Why should elderly people have to rely on savings to heat their homes? I mean, we could go on couldn't we but I doubt you can answer me those questions without saying "BUT HOW CAN WE AFFORD IT? (Quote: The Sun, the Mail & Chaddy). Maybe if we make the corporations pay more of their billion pound profits into the system we could alleviate the worries of the poor. Or maybe we could stop literally blowing up millions of pounds by waging wars in the Middle East.

I'm a young adult that works 40+ hours a week in a professional job. I have been to University. I'm still earning under the threshold to pay back the debt I have built up despite it now earning interest. I am classed as a 'professional' but can't afford to buy my own home. I am having to use a hire purchase agreement to get a car because buying my own and insuring was simply far too expensive to justify. I earn roughly the same as new graduates earned in my profession about 15-20 years ago which is pathetic. All of this is because of policies made by people that came through in a time when you could afford a house on an unskilled wage, when they enjoyed free tuition or when they were actively rewarded for going through the rigours of education with job prospects and a significant wage with that. Now, under Tory rule, I'm saddled with more debt than any of them, being paid the same as they were decades ago, forced to pay huge amounts more for the amenities they enjoyed (house and car) and then told that I'm part of a "privileged generation" that "hasn't had to work for anything".

This is why I will be voting for Corbyn. And I am certain this is why a vast majority of people my age will be voting for him too. Finally there's a politician of a different mould that we can finally relate too. The only problem is, similar to the EU Leave vote, is whether we will be out voted by the traditional elder generation that have enjoyed the fruits of former policies and now want to blame all their problems on younger generations and see them punished.

The only alarming stat is that the Tory's are now attacking the elderly too. Amazing really and shows just how out of touch they are by alienating a significant proportion of their vote base. I can only hope it's what finally breaks the camels back.

[DE.]

4 hours ago, Biz said:

What must it be like trying to get onto the property ladder if you're brought up in or near a city - especially the education hotspots where lots of houses have been bought to let.

Very difficult. You wouldn't even get a small two bedroom flat here for the price some two/three bedroom houses in Accy go for. 

[chaddyrovers]

25 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

 

Why shouldn't education be free or children receive school meals? Why shouldn't there be a free at the point of service NHS in a developed Western country? Why should elderly people have to rely on savings to heat their homes? I mean, we could go on couldn't we but I doubt you can answer me those questions without saying "BUT HOW CAN WE AFFORD IT? (Quote: The Sun, the Mail & Chaddy). Maybe if we make the corporations pay more of their billion pound profits into the system we could alleviate the worries of the poor. Or maybe we could stop literally blowing up millions of pounds by waging wars in the Middle East.

I'm a young adult that works 40+ hours a week in a professional job. I have been to University. I'm still earning under the threshold to pay back the debt I have built up despite it now earning interest. I am classed as a 'professional' but can't afford to buy my own home. I am having to use a hire purchase agreement to get a car because buying my own and insuring was simply far too expensive to justify.

 

Education and NHS are free unless you want to pay privately which btw I dont not. In America you have to pay for healthcare and some people cant get cover cos Mecidal insurers wont cover them until Omaba past the law. 

I earned between 20 to 25k per year..its the best wage Ive ever earned. My job is physical demanding but very easy to do. I worked 4 12 hours nights shift but its allowed me to get on the housing market and out of rent market. I too have a car loan for a car worth around 10k at the time. I like the car and Always have the same model when I buy one just an upgrade. 

Me and my family(missus and 2 step kids) live within our means dont over spend. I also put 200 to 250 pounds per month away for trips, holidays, etc. 

By having a lower business tax means more companies have hire staff and kept businesses here. Put taxes up, more chances of businesses not looking to employ new staff. 

2.9 million new jobs created since 2010. 

 

[Batman.]

Has anybody ever tried to talk the pope out of Catholicism? 

[jim mk2]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

By having a lower business tax means more companies have hire staff and kept businesses here. Put taxes up, more chances of businesses not looking to employ new staff. 

2.9 million new jobs created since 2010. 

 

Governments need tax to pay for your "free" NHS and education. You cannot have one without the other.

If you agree with low corporate and incomes taxes then prepare to pay more out of your pocket for public services

[Hasta]

19 hours ago, Baz said:

Would you risk 48% of your income on a potential deal?

 

48% isn't being risked though as we will still trade but with an additional tariff on goods. A small chunk of that 48% is being risked.

BMW's biggest European export market is the U.K.

Volkswagens biggest export market in Europe is the U.K. too.

Do you really think we won't be trading goods with Germany post Brexit?

[Baz]

2 minutes ago, Hasta said:

 

48% isn't being risked though as we will still trade but with an additional tariff on goods. A small chunk of that 48% is being risked.

BMW's biggest European export market is the U.K.

Volkswagens biggest export market in Europe is the U.K. too.

Do you really think we won't be trading goods with Germany post Brexit?

The whole lot is up for negotiation, ergo it's at risk.

How much is the small chunk? And how much is that in cash, jobs, businesses etc?

The answer is, you don't know.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Governments need tax to pay for your "free" NHS and education. You cannot have one without the other.

If you agree with low corporate and incomes taxes then prepare to pay more out of your pocket for public services

Well we will save 12.9 billion from being in the EU. and then cut Foriegn aid budget. And use that to fund NHS, Education and Social Care. 

EU countries are not going to cut off trade with us or vice versa

 They need us just as much as we need them. 

[jim mk2]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Well we will save 12.9 billion from being in the EU. and then cut Foriegn aid budget. And use that to fund NHS, Education and Social Care. 

EU countries are not going to cut off trade with us or vice versa

 They need us just as much as we need them. 

 

Yes chaddy, and the NHS will get an extra £350m a week like it said on the side of the bus. Or maybe not. 

Time to get this straight. Britain is set on leaving the world’s richest single market in order to re-apply for access on much less favourable terms to the very same market. 

By 2019 we will be the only significant European economy sitting outside all three of the continent’s trading blocs — the European Economic Area, the European Free Trade Area as well as the EU.

None of it makes sense.

 

[Hasta]

33 minutes ago, Baz said:

The whole lot is up for negotiation, ergo it's at risk.

How much is the small chunk? And how much is that in cash, jobs, businesses etc?

The answer is, you don't know.

We make good money from Germany. They make good money from us. All of that business is not at risk. We will definitely still be trading with European countries whatever the deal.

A portion of it may be if tariffs are applied (which I doubt they will be to major markets)