[Archived] Election called for 8th June

[Mike E]

One of the main reasons I will be voting Labour (I finally turned about lunch time yesterday) is my belief that Starmer and Corbyn clearly LISTEN to people, engage with people, and act logically without personal bias.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Biz said:

Look, Chaddy nobody wants you to just agree with them, it's the acceptance of certain things, and the way it's discussed. It's like if someone gave you 50 reasons good or bad for brexit, you've responded with "that's democracy"... why not make an observation on what else could happen, or speculate some positivity?

Believe it or not, this discussion needs differing views or it ends up like another website I can think of. All I would ask is try to avoid saying the same things if people are saying things that impact that.

I admire your optimism with footy, you know that. Seeing your content in the transfer thread reminds of the famous Shakespeare quote; "the only medicine for misery is hope" or something someone more literate might remember! 

Fair enough Biz

5 hours ago, Paul said:

Bad night for Corbyn? Have you watched it?

 

No sadly I was working last night till 6am this morning doing my job 

Will be watching tonight

[Paul]

7 hours ago, perthblue02 said:

To be fair to him he did say he would not use it as a first strike, which any rational person would agree with.

I liked your post perth because there is a lot of sense in it. For example I agree people do have the right to ask the potential PM how he would defend our country. For me Corbyn answered the question, and has previously, 4-5 times last night. Your line above sums it up for me, I would not want a PM who would contemplate first strike. Personally I don't see much point in second strike as once the first one hits we're all finished anyway. For this reason I'm against Trident. I think Corbyn has made it very clear he will defend the country but also made it clear he is in favour of tea and biscuits before the nuclear option.

I met an American today at a mutual friend's memorial service. I'm not trying to derail this thread. He was at pains to apologise for Trump, urging the rest of the world to go its own way without America. The guy genuinely believes Trump could start a nuclear war. Do we want someone in power who would even consider a first strike option? I don't think so.

[Baz]

I just find the whole IRA /nuclear weapons questions both pretty low down on my list of concerns, but also a sign of weakness from the right-wing. There's not a single policy May has, that is popular. The Tory campaign is that you can't trust Corbyn, but the weakness of policy, debate and lying has all come from the Tories.

[Paul]

Just now, Baz said:

I just find the whole IRA /nuclear weapons questions both pretty low down on my list of concerns, but also a sign of weakness from the right-wing. There's not a single policy May has, that is popular. The Tory campaign is that you can't trust Corbyn, but the weakness of policy, debate and lying has all come from the Tories.

The other aspect of the Tory campaign is it is about one person - Theresa May. She seems to believe the country adores her, I think she may be in for a surprise. The R4 phone-in after Any Questions was revealing. This is not a programme known for its radical callers. Three callers said they had switched from Tory to Labour because of May's arrogance. expecting a coronation, and Corbyn's growing stature.

For change and a fresh approach there is only one way to vote on Thursday.

[broadsword]

50 inches, you say? 

[JAL]

Read that the Tories are looking to cut the British army by another 17,000. 

Strong and stable my arse !

[perthblue02]

Just now, Paul said:

 

For a  change and a fresh approach there is only one way to vote on Thursday.

It will be interesting to see how much tactical voting plays in the final result. There seems to be a lot of effort going into making people aware of it

[Mike E]

Just now, JAL said:

Read that the Tories are looking to cut the British army by another 17,000. 

Strong and stable my arse !

After having to draft them in because there weren't enough police 2 weeks ago... crap at numbers as Home Sec AND as PM!

Labour may have DA, but thank God for JC and KS.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, broadsword said:

50 inches, you say? 

That's just greedy, 5 is plenty.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Todays " Guardian" came out for Corbyn and Labour today. In 2010 they came out for the Lib Dems.

The leader explaining why the paper has plumped for Labour this time is decent enough but there is a brilliant letter on the letters page that I'd like to quote a piece from -

" Those who fought and struggled through the Second World War were fighting for a Britain free from domination by other countries. What would they think of Britain now ? A small island owned by foreign corporations and governments from Moscow to Mecca to Mumbai.

A bargain basement floating off the shores of Europe, open to offers from foreign investors and governments, with subsidies from from UK taxpayers. All our energy supplies, the railways, the postal service, the motor industry, and vast areas of London and elsewhere, are now mainly owned by foreign governments and global corporate shareholders.

What is left,  the partially nationalised NHS, social services, care for the sick and old, the prison and probation system, the disabled, and, next in line, the national parks. If the Tories win power again, those that have not been privatised will be in the next five years.

That's what five billionaires, whose corporations don't pay UK tax want you to do. They want you to vote for Mrs May. They want you to trash the beliefs and dreams that our past generations fought so hard for. Vote Tory and wish away those dreams, and the future of many of our young people. "

[only2garners]

22 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well we will save 12.9 billion from being in the EU. and then cut Foriegn aid budget. And use that to fund NHS, Education and Social Care. 

EU countries are not going to cut off trade with us or vice versa

 They need us just as much as we need them. 

I hate to disappoint you Chaddy but just about the only thing that I can congratulate the Conservatives for is their achievement of the UN target to spend 0.7% of our GDP on international aid. The manifesto for this election confirms that they will continue this spend so I can't see how they can save any money there.

You said many pages ago that you didn't have any time to read the manifestos - it would have taken considerably less time than the numbers of posts you have put on this thread alone.

In other news I've swapped my vote via swapmyvote.org. I've agreed to vote Labour in South Ribble and a woman in Oxford will vote Lib Dem in her Conservative/Lib Dem marginal. Mine probably won't make any difference but the Lib Dems have a serious chance in her seat.

[Baz]

I see May is backing the Naylor Report, which recommends setting up a NHS Property Board, responsible for identifying NHS Property and grounds that can be sold off to private property development companies. 

Yet another short-term money grabbing idea.

[JAL]

15 hours ago, Mike E said:

After having to draft them in because there weren't enough police 2 weeks ago... crap at numbers as Home Sec AND as PM!

Labour may have DA, but thank God for JC and KS.

 

Boris Johnson out !

Looks like the Tories are clearing the decks for........... press that button !!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Boris Johnson was even more boorish than normal last night on TV. If somebody told me he'd been on the falling down water I wouldn't be a bit surprised. He's supposed to be the Foreign Secretary not a comedy act.

Maybe he'd been busy socialising with Ayman Asfari, the Syrian-British business man who has given £644,000 to the Tories since 2009 and whose wife, Sawsan, has given the Tories a further £150,000. At the moment Asfari's company Petrofac is under investigation by the Serious Fraud Squad over allegations that it was involved in a huge bribery and corruption scheme. He's a particular acquaintance of Johnson.

 

[Husky]

On 02/06/2017 at 09:58, K-Hod said:

Proportional representation has been needed for quite some time IMO.

I think PR is even less likely to happen now than ever before - bearing in mind all the much publicised whining about the nation's only truly democratic vote (Brexit).

[Hasta]

Has Corbyn ever given a satisfactory answer as to why he has voted against every new anti-terror law that has been tried to be passed through Parliament? 

I've had a quick search but can't find one other that 'it's more of a threat to this country than our interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan'.

The 15 suspects in custody from the Manchester bomb can be held up to 14 days under the terrorism act rather than the standard 48 hours. Corbyn voted against that act, even when it was for a period of just 7 days.

If Corbyn was PM, would we be happy to have these acts revoked meaning that GMP had only 48 hours before releasing suspected collaborators?

[JBiz]

Just now, Hasta said:

Has Corbyn ever given a satisfactory answer as to why he has voted against every new anti-terror law that has been tried to be passed through Parliament? 

I've had a quick search but can't find one other that 'it's more of a threat to this country than our interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan'.

The 15 suspects in custody from the Manchester bomb can be held up to 14 days under the terrorism act rather than the standard 48 hours. Corbyn voted against that act, even when it was for a period of just 7 days.

If Corbyn was PM, would we be happy to have these acts revoked meaning that GMP had only 48 hours before releasing suspected collaborators?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40111329

 

quite similar record, main difference is Theresa often doesn't turn up

[Hasta]

5 minutes ago, Biz said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40111329

 

quite similar record, main difference is Theresa often doesn't turn up

I'd already seen that. Not sure that proves your points.

May voted in favour of 5, against 3 and was absent from 2

Some of those she voted for were only after amendments to the bills.

Corbyn voted against 9 and was absent for 1.

 

How anyone can say in the current climate that suspected terrorists shouldn't be held for up to 14 days is barmy.

 

[Baz]

Just now, Hasta said:

I'd already seen that. Not sure that proves your points.

May voted in favour of 5, against 3 and was absent from 2

Some of those she voted for were only after amendments to the bills.

Corbyn voted against 9 and was absent for 1.

 

How anyone can say in the current climate that suspected terrorists shouldn't be held for up to 14 days is barmy.

 

Corbyns position has always been that detention without carge or judicial review is wrong. 

I can see the point, especially if you roll back time to the 1980s/90's,  but I'd say a longer period is probably warranted now.

[JBiz]

Just now, Hasta said:

I'd already seen that. Not sure that proves your points.

May voted in favour of 5, against 3 and was absent from 2

Some of those she voted for were only after amendments to the bills.

Corbyn voted against 9 and was absent for 1.

 

How anyone can say in the current climate that suspected terrorists shouldn't be held for up to 14 days is barmy.

 

You said you'd only had a quick look. I shared the article I saw on this. 

The problem with certain acts is not the genuine rationale for their need, it's the misuse of the powers. 14 days is all well and good but there are examples that say releasing people without charge after long periods does damage.

We need to be detaining people without having to release, for that you need better intelligence and you need community unity - a few more local bobbies would bring more confidence for people to speak out too.

 

[Hasta]

11 minutes ago, Biz said:

You said you'd only had a quick look. I shared the article I saw on this. 

The problem with certain acts is not the genuine rationale for their need, it's the misuse of the powers. 14 days is all well and good but there are examples that say releasing people without charge after long periods does damage.

We need to be detaining people without having to release, for that you need better intelligence and you need community unity - a few more local bobbies would bring more confidence for people to speak out too.

 

Agree with most of that. However, especially post 9/11, it seemed a no-brainer to allow detention on suspicion of terror offences for up to 7 days. Further amendments made it 14 days.

 

Corbyn opposed both 7 and 14 days. His record implies he opposed anything which gave police and intelligence more time to hold and question suspects on terror related offences. I've not heard him say he was wrong on the above examples  (although he hasn't specifically been asked) but if that is genuinely his view then that deeply worries me. I imagine after events in the last 2 weeks it would deeply worry Corbyn supporters.

[blueboy3333]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/04/theresa-may-response-london-bridge-attack-tougher-manchester

May politicising the terror attacks at the same time as saying campaigning is suspended

Saying 'enough is enough' and that “there is far too much tolerance of extremism in our country” now, conveniently forgetting she was in charge of the Home Office for 6 years. Cretin!

 

 

[perthblue02]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

Agree with most of that. However, especially post 9/11, it seemed a no-brainer to allow detention on suspicion of terror offences for up to 7 days. Further amendments made it 14 days.

 

Corbyn opposed both 7 and 14 days. His record implies he opposed anything which gave police and intelligence more time to hold and question suspects on terror related offences. I've not heard him say he was wrong on the above examples  (although he hasn't specifically been asked) but if that is genuinely his view then that deeply worries me. I imagine after events in the last 2 weeks it would deeply worry Corbyn supporters.

Am I right in thinking that he was also not happy with the Police shoot to kill policy regarding terrorists?, good job that policy still stands and not the alternative  of Police carrying a flask and biscuits along with their truncheons to end terror attacks.

[blueboy3333]

Would you Adam and Believe it. There is a sitting TORY councillor who used to be in the IRA. She even wrote book about it with a prologue that included the following:-

"I agreed with the shooting of British soldiers and believed the more who were killed the better"

It's in the Daily Mail so it must be true. It's from 2008 but it's strange they haven't rehashed it instead of focusing on demonising Jezza for wanting to engage with the Irish terrorists to achieve peace

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1091364/The-truth-Tory-council-education-chief-used-IRA-moll.html#ixzz4j2Prlqys
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http://evolvepolitics.com/realise-current-conservative-politician-literally-member-ira-right/