[Archived] Election called for 8th June

[Husky]

Surely I can't be the only one that feels a bit 'American' right now. Out of the 2 parties that have a chance of fronting the country (similar to the US election) you've basically got a choice of Herpes or Syphilis.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, perthblue02 said:

Am I right in thinking that he was also not happy with the Police shoot to kill policy regarding terrorists?, good job that policy still stands and not the alternative  of Police carrying a flask and biscuits along with their truncheons to end terror attacks.

There's a police officer in hospital today with stab wounds after only having a baton to confront knife-wielding terrorists with. This is under a Tory government.

[blueboy3333]

On ‎03‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 11:05, perthblue02 said:

Would not class myself as a Daily Mail reader , dip in and out the full range of papers at some point during the week, but

 It think it is a fair question to ask a potential leader of the country and demand an answer from, considering that particular person's history regarding Nuclear weapons. As for the womens comments , well it is not a case of people being keen on killing millions of people , it is people wanting to know if a potential leader of the country has the balls to defend the country in case of attack rather than get out the (by then radioactive) tea and biscuits and discuss it with the aggressor. 

To be fair to him he did say he would not use it as a first strike, which any rational person would agree with.

Much as the argument that the EU has been responsible for peace in Europe (obviously ignoring the wars involving non EU members in Europe) , it could be argued that having a nuclear deterrent has had the same effect, no nukes dropped in anger since 1945.

p.s still not got around to watching the full latest debate yet, but no doubt Corbyn's public persona has improved from what I have seen, still comes across as somebody who would be great leading a campaign to get a school crossing in place, as for leader of the country far from convinced, too many unanswered questions.

One person who has impressed me and is in the shadow cabinet on merit and not union request, to full pc quotas or are darlings of the pc brigade  is Kier Starmer, a non career politician who has lived outside the political bubble,  comes across as trustworthy whether I agree with all he says or not. Apparently was asked to stand as candidate in the Labour leadership but felt that being in politics for only a couple of years was not ready. (in my view that is exactly why he should have stood before he became part of the problem with politicians)

[den]

Well worth listening to.

 

[perthblue02]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

His badge gives away the agenda   Have North Korea been attacked by a Nuclear weapon yet? my point still stands

[Hasta]

Disagree with that Hammond quote.

They are a target whilst they aim to acquire nuclear weapons. Once they acquire the ability to use Nuclear weapons in conflict, then I doubt there will be any major military action against North Korea.

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, perthblue02 said:

His badge gives away his real agenda   Have North Korea been attacked by a Nuclear weapon yet? my point still stands

I was just highlighting the hypocrisy of the Tory attacks on Corbyn re Trident. I think someone must have pinned that badge on him when he wasn't looking

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Hasta said:

Disagree with that Hammond quote.

They are a target whilst they aim to acquire nuclear weapons. Once they acquire have the ability to use Nuclear weapons in conflict then I doubt there will be any major military action against North Korea.

 

Agree with that. Us and the yanks don't like to attack countries than can defend themselves!

[perthblue02]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I was just highlighting the hypocrisy of the Tory attacks on Corbyn re Trident. I think someone must have pinned that badge on him when he wasn't looking

Ha ha, was the first thing I noticed

[blueboy3333]

Just now, den said:

Well worth listening to.

 

It's refreshing to hear liars being called liars. This Tory Govt have some front when it comes to the BS they spout about police numbers and public servants in general. 

[Hasta]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Agree with that. Us and the yanks don't like to attack countries than can defend themselves!

We haven't attacked North Korea though even though they are acquiring nuclear capability.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Hasta said:

We haven't attacked North Korea though even though they are acquiring nuclear capability.

They can defend themselves without using nuclear weapons. They also have the backing of China, and probably Russia. If North Korea is attacked it will mean a full-scale war on the Korean Peninsula.

[perthblue02]

40 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

There's a police officer in hospital today with stab wounds after only having a baton to confront knife-wielding terrorists with. This is under a Tory government.

Have just heard that statement from BTP , believe they have a special arms unit that have been very active since Manchester, and he was not one of them, sounds a very brave chap though.

Having lived for a while in a country where all police are armed it has changed my opinion somewhat on the benefits of it, obviously it helps that they are not trigger happy idiots like some of the police in the US, but I could imagine that the UK would be very similar to here if all police were armed. Previously visiting Spain etc and in the first year here made me uneasy, but it is quite reassuring once you get used to it. But that is a debate possibly for a different time

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

It's refreshing to hear liars being called liars. This Tory Govt have some front when it comes to the BS they spout about police numbers and public servants in general. 

Just remind me who was Home Secretary whilst all the police cuts where going on ? Could it be the same woman who was saying " Enough is enough " outside No 10 Downing St. today ?

Well she's right about one thing - I've had more than enough of her.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, perthblue02 said:

Have just heard that statement from BTP , believe they have a special arms unit that have been very active since Manchester, and he was not one of them, sounds a very brave chap though.

Having lived for a while in a country where all police are armed it has changed my opinion somewhat on the benefits of it, obviously it helps that they are not trigger happy idiots like some of the police in the US, but I could imagine that the UK would be very similar to here if all police were armed. Previously visiting Spain etc and in the first year here made me uneasy, but it is quite reassuring once you get used to it. But that is a debate possibly for a different time

I'm always a bit uneasy around people carrying guns that may not have had the required training . In Spain even the security guards in large department stores carry automatics !  Firing off half a dozens rounds on the range every year doesn't quite do it for me.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Hasta said:

Agree with most of that. However, especially post 9/11, it seemed a no-brainer to allow detention on suspicion of terror offences for up to 7 days. Further amendments made it 14 days.

 

Corbyn opposed both 7 and 14 days. His record implies he opposed anything which gave police and intelligence more time to hold and question suspects on terror related offences. I've not heard him say he was wrong on the above examples  (although he hasn't specifically been asked) but if that is genuinely his view then that deeply worries me. I imagine after events in the last 2 weeks it would deeply worry Corbyn supporters.

we need tough new laws on national security, internet security, human rights and deportation rights.

we need to increase the counter terror budget and use the police the new laws to either put these extremist or terrorist in jail or deportation.

These extremist and terrorists are not interest in peace or anything else apart from causing chaos to our country and attacking our freedom and way of life

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Just remind me who was Home Secretary whilst all the police cuts where going on ? Could it be the same woman who was saying " Enough is enough " outside No 10 Downing St. today ?

Well she's right about one thing - I've had more than enough of her.

Counter terrorism budget increases.

And you expect the Country to trust Corbyn and Abbott to make the country safer? really?

[perthblue02]

FT take on the current state of play as they see it, an interesting read.

Link

[jim mk2]

May's "enough is enough sounds suspiciously like "Brexit means Brexit" - a meaningless soundbite. By the way, every time May appears in the media, I and a growing number of others are saying "enough is enough". of her and her government.

Jeremy Corbyn warned 2 years ago that May's cuts to the police force increased the terrorism risk. Well, now he's been proven correct (again). Corbyn has said he would restore police numbers and those of the armed forces. The country would be a safer place under him 

[Baz]

I'm not against the deportation of people is proven that they are acting unlawfully with terrorist intentions, however, I'm not sure that anyone involved in most of these recent attacked would be affected.

We need to assess the reasons these young males who are carrying out these attacks are becoming radicalised. I've spoken before about social media, it needs looking at. We also need to be assessing any other aspects - like if they are more likely to be radicalised if they less educated, less well off etc....

Our intelligence services simply cannot cope with 23,000 on a watch list (if that no is correct), so we need to look and see how we can interact with these communities more effectively. Is that more community support officers, more Muslim support officers etc...

Whatever is the right way, it seems that the current way isn't working as well as we need.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

May's "enough is enough sounds suspiciously like "Brexit means Brexit" - a meaningless soundbite. By the way, every time May appears in the media, I and a growing number of others are saying "enough is enough". of her and her government.

Jeremy Corbyn warned 2 years ago that May's cuts to the police force increased the terrorism risk. Well, now he's been proven correct (again). Corbyn has said he would restore police numbers and those of the armed forces. The country would be a safer place under him 

The counter terrorism budget went up. not down. we need more counter terrorism police and MI5/MI6 staff now. Because Cyber and Extremist is the 21st century problem.

These extremist and Terrorists have got away with it for years due to weak Internet Security policy, Human rights for these Extremists and its time to get real and deal with this problem.

Corbyn and Abbott running the security for our country would be pathetic. weak on laws, security and terrorists groups.

Corbyn thinks peace is the way well it isn't when these people don't like our way of life, our freedom or our democracy.

Time for us to show our power and force by getting tougher on deportation rights, get rid of human rights and replacing it with UK Bills of rights, More strict Internet security and companies allow these extremist talks on the websites and tighting our borders security.

[Baz]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

The counter terrorism budget went up. not down. we need more counter terrorism police and MI5/MI6 staff now. Because Cyber and Extremist is the 21st century problem.

These extremist and Terrorists have got away with it for years due to weak Internet Security policy, Human rights for these Extremists and its time to get real and deal with this problem.

Corbyn and Abbott running the security for our country would be pathetic. weak on laws, security and terrorists groups.

Corbyn thinks peace is the way well it isn't when these people don't like our way of life, our freedom or our democracy.

Time for us to show our power and force by getting tougher on deportation rights, get rid of human rights and replacing it with UK Bills of rights, More strict Internet security and companies allow these extremist talks on the websites and tighting our borders security.

Perhaps terrorists have got away with it for years because the home secretary was cutting police?

[Batman.]

Care to go into more depth Chaddy? I'd hate for people to think that you have no idea what any of that means beyond being "tough sounding" soundbites.

[jim mk2]

 

In November 2015 Jeremy Corbyn said of May's cuts to the police service:  "By pressing ahead with these cuts the government is failing in its most basic duty – to protect our citizens. The planned cuts pose a direct threat to the security of our own people

Corbyn could clearly see that the Tories were putting their zealous austerity fanaticism above public safety, and he spoke out, but yet again the political establishment wouldn't listen. They were far too ideologically blinded by their fanatical austerity dogma to care.

[Hasta]

I'm completely against police cuts in the current climate.

However you could have an extra 100,000 police but if three lunatics want to drive a van into people and then stab them it will still happen. Despite increased counter-terrorism spending, including an extra £550 million a year from 2005, it appears these three were not known to intelligence.

You can't say that the police cuts have 'caused terrorism' when most of the terrorist attacks  that have been stopped are stopped through intelligence / counter terrorism forces rather than police.

[den]

Just now, Hasta said:

 

You can't say that the police cuts have 'caused terrorism' when most of the terrorist attacks  that have been stopped are stopped through intelligence / counter terrorism forces rather than police.

Well firstly, no one HAS said that police cuts have caused terrorism. Secondly, are you saying that potential terrorists are never picked up by ordinary bobbys involved in their communities?