[Archived] Annual Season Ticket Poll - 2017/18. Are you getting one?

[JBiz]

Just now, Mike E said:

I think the point is that protesters tried to show solidarity with those who still wish to attend by holding in-ground protests that involve no change to matchday.

It's a bit disappointing that attending fans aren't willing to show it in return.

It's not the attending fans you should be dissapointed with, it should 100% be saved for the owners and your anger should be aimed at the scum responsible.

 

[Mike E]

I do agree with that. We can ask questions of each other, but don't rise to insults. Just report.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Mike E said:

I think the point is that protesters tried to show solidarity with those who still wish to attend by holding in-ground protests that involve no change to matchday.

It's a bit disappointing that attending fans aren't willing to show it in return.

Mike, if people want to protest then do but I dont want to protest. 

You did once asked my a series of questions about protesting and I answered them honestly. 

[Mike E]

That, you did, and I was grateful

[Mattyblue]

Amazes me that this place STILL goes round in circles.

You don't need mass participation in protests, the campaign got more coverage this season than any since 2012- why? Because of well organised events like 18-75, Blackpool and some good articles in the national press (plus a juicy relegation).

The good PR isn't dependent on 100% of the matchgoing support taking part- the fact some do coupled with the images of largely empty stands does the trick.

Case in point, I was at a barbecue on the Fylde Coast yesterday- couple of fellas knew about Duncan's election campaign.

Some people will never join a protest, but as you don't need them to, why wind yourself up?

I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Amazes me that this place STILL goes round in circles.

You don't need mass participation in protests, the campaign got more coverage this season than any since 2012- why? Because of well organised events like 18-75, Blackpool and some good articles in the national press (plus a juicy relegation).

The good PR isn't dependent on 100% of the matchgoing support taking part- the fact some do coupled with the images of largely empty stands does the trick.

Case in point, I was at a barbecue on the Fylde Coast yesterday- couple of fellas knew about Duncan's election campaign.

Some people will never join a protest, but as you don't need them to, why wind yourself up?

I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating.

Protesting has many forms too, look at what glen does, he still attends but investigates the club. WMC some boycott but openly assist and get involved on a number of initiatives etc

[Stuart]

2 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I do agree with that. We can ask questions of each other, but don't rise to insults. Just report.

Funny that Parson's biggest fan gets a free pass with the insults but then cries foul when he gets it back.

His latest spat of changing his mind again about Bowyer is why he attracts the feedback he gets.

[47er]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Give it a rest instead of moaning for once. 

You're like the last mosquito of summer.

[AllRoverAsia]

"I have been more than open and honest with this forum then most members."

Is 'then' really 'than' ?- I am just trying to make sense of what seems at first reading a somewhat crass remark

[47er]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

"I have been more than open and honest with this forum then most members."

Is 'then' really 'than' ?- I am just trying to make sense of what seems at first reading a somewhat crass remark

I'm wondering where he got that latest delusion from? Proof? Evidence? Any reality at all?

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

I don't believe there is any need for the lapdog comment.  I don't know anyone who is in favour of the present owners but for many our love of Blackburn Rovers is greater than our disdain for the Raos.  Many of us still see it as the same club but one which is operating under appalling ownership at the moment.  Clearly you don't feel it is the same club, which is fair enough but you can't expect everyone to have the same views with regard to that as yourself.  I've happily renewed my season ticket and will renew the away season ticket as well because I still feel it is the same club that I have always supported despite the chronic mismanagement over the past few years.  If you feel no enjoyment in following the club under the present ownership then take a break from it.  Seriously Stuart, many of your posts - about the game in general as well as the Rovers - seem increasingly depressed at the moment which is not a great place for you to be.  Events this week have shown there are far more important things in life than any football club no matter how much we love it.

Thank you for your concern. Such a shame your concern doesn't extend to helping to highlight the cause of the gloom that has descended on the club, and instead simply watching the team(s) play.

How people view 'the club' is the biggest issue for fans right now, and it's important that we remember what this is all for.

The club is not bricks and mortar; it isn't the badge or the colour of the shirt that is worn - all have changed over the years and it has still been 'the same club'; it isn't even the stadium - we could move (within reason) and still be Blackburn Rovers.

Fundamentally what makes the 'club' is the people and, importantly, it's those people all wanting the same thing. In the case of a football club, it's surely unarguable that this is to be a well-run club off the pitch and to try to be as successful as possible on it. The custodians of the club simply MUST be aligned to the fans with this. At all times pre-October 2010 it has been that way. For the 7 years since Venkys have sought neither to run the club well (they have proven to be utterly inadequate) and anyone who says they seek success on the pitch is, frankly, a simpleton. How anyone can look at the club and feel that Venkys have run the club for the same reasons as their predecessors, let alone have the best interests of the club at heart, well, I don't know. Perhaps you can enlighten me? Is the club simply the things you see when you go to the stadium or training ground? All of the things that make it look like the same club? If it is then you and I have very different views about what makes this our club.

I just hope beyond hope that one day this can be our club again. However, with Venkys latest two-fingered (and racist) salute to us all being that they won't sell to British buyers, I fear that it will be a NW Counties league club that becomes our town team again. Will you still see it as the same club then? Or do the bricks and mortar matter more?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Amazes me that this place STILL goes round in circles.

You don't need mass participation in protests, the campaign got more coverage this season than any since 2012- why? Because of well organised events like 18-75, Blackpool and some good articles in the national press (plus a juicy relegation).

The good PR isn't dependent on 100% of the matchgoing support taking part- the fact some do coupled with the images of largely empty stands does the trick.

Case in point, I was at a barbecue on the Fylde Coast yesterday- couple of fellas knew about Duncan's election campaign.

Some people will never join a protest, but as you don't need them to, why wind yourself up?

I've said this before, but I think it's worth repeating.

People sat in their camps long ago. Some people will protest, some won't. Both sides think that the other side is damaging the club further, particularly from the protesters' point of view it seems and, on that basis, you will never get a consensus amongst the fan base.

I've actually never seen any insulting from either side down at Ewood, so I'm just taking people's words for it that it happens - protesters getting "collared" by non-protesters seems to be the popular one. Whether that's an exaggeration or not, the fact for me is that it's only on here that I've seen it resort to insults, and only ever from one side of the divide. Calling others "gutless", "spineless", and "mushrooms", is a really smart way to win people over to their way of thinking...

Must emphasise, though, that it's only one or two. The majority of us get on fine I think.

[AshleyClifford]

1 hour ago, Mike E said:

I think the point is that protesters tried to show solidarity with those who still wish to attend by holding in-ground protests that involve no change to matchday.

It's a bit disappointing that attending fans aren't willing to show it in return.

I did the 1875 at the wolves game.... I seemed to be on only one holding a red card at the fa cup game v United-Now we had just scored so the timing may have had an effect but I had a few(spare red cards) and tried to pass them round. However another spin on , in game protests. People don't want to do them and it is kind of forced on them. 

[RobMac]

As someone who hasn't posted for years on this site, just thought I'd log in and have a look. I am one of those who will not go back to the club until those clowns are gone once and for all, if that means we are in national league north then so be it, the minute after the club is sold and those imcompetent buffoons are officially rid of the club I will renew my season ticket. For me it's not about which league we are in (although we should still be a Premier League club enjoying the riches of the likes of Swansea and Crystal Palace and those up the road) it's about having our club back and a united fanbase where we can start to progress and for me to actually start to care again, because at the moment I simply have no interest in how the team performs. I look forward to the day I can be sat next to MattyBlue again at 3pm on a Saturday.

[Parsonblue]

52 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Thank you for your concern. Such a shame your concern doesn't extend to helping to highlight the cause of the gloom that has descended on the club, and instead simply watching the team(s) play.

How people view 'the club' is the biggest issue for fans right now, and it's important that we remember what this is all for.

The club is not bricks and mortar; it isn't the badge or the colour of the shirt that is worn - all have changed over the years and it has still been 'the same club'; it isn't even the stadium - we could move (within reason) and still be Blackburn Rovers.

Fundamentally what makes the 'club' is the people and, importantly, it's those people all wanting the same thing. In the case of a football club, it's surely unarguable that this is to be a well-run club off the pitch and to try to be as successful as possible on it. The custodians of the club simply MUST be aligned to the fans with this. At all times pre-October 2010 it has been that way. For the 7 years since Venkys have sought neither to run the club well (they have proven to be utterly inadequate) and anyone who says they seek success on the pitch is, frankly, a simpleton. How anyone can look at the club and feel that Venkys have run the club for the same reasons as their predecessors, let alone have the best interests of the club at heart, well, I don't know. Perhaps you can enlighten me? Is the club simply the things you see when you go to the stadium or training ground? All of the things that make it look like the same club? If it is then you and I have very different views about what makes this our club.

I just hope beyond hope that one day this can be our club again. However, with Venkys latest two-fingered (and racist) salute to us all being that they won't sell to British buyers, I fear that it will be a NW Counties league club that becomes our town team again. Will you still see it as the same club then? Or do the bricks and mortar matter more?

You make several interesting points for discussion here Stuart.  Firstly, let's remember that the club was founded in 1875 as something of a gentleman's club for the wealthier elite of the town.  As it became increasingly successful so too did the support for it amongst the general population of the town.  At that time you still had to pay a membership fee and with it came possible financial responsibilities.  Season tickets were only introduced in the 1890s because so many of the club's supporters didn't want the responsibilities of membership.  Since that point it has been owned and run by the larger shareholders.  When Jack took over he basically bought out as many of the smaller shareholders as possible.  I think the majority of us were happy to sell our shares to Jack as he had a clear vision of where he wanted to take the club.  I agree we all want a well run club that is as successful as it can be on the pitch.  At the moment it is clearly not well run but I still want it to be successful on the pitch and still enjoy supporting the team at matches.  I still feel it is the club I have always supported.  Even when I was a shareholder, I still had no real input into how the club was run, just as I don't today.  Supporters are the lifeblood of the club and that support is often passed on from generation to generation and in the past, prior to Jack taking over, those who where the major shareholders lived and worked within the town.  They were part of the community.  In many ways Jack was a bridge between the old style ownership and the modern global ownership.  Jack was Blackburn born and bred but success had enabled him to fund the club to a different level than we could ever have hoped to achieve.   After Jack's passing, the club became just one element of the Trust's business dealings and once it started to become a drain on the other businesses the Trust looked to sell.  It took years to find a buyer and all the prospective candidates were from overseas.

Many of our clubs are now becoming part and parcel of an investment portfolio of overseas owners.  Sadly, for every Chelsea or Arsenal there is a Coventry City, Blackburn Rovers or Leyton Orient.  For me this is still the same club with it's same history and links with past generations.  At the moment the present ownership has, for whatever reason, completely destroyed what the club had become.  I have no idea why they bought the club and I have no idea why they still want to retain ownership of the club, all I know is that I still believe it to be the same Blackburn Rovers that I first started watching fifty-odd years ago.  I still believe that ultimately this period will pass and that Blackburn Rovers will survive the disastrous ownership of the Rao family and will thrive again at some point in the future. 

[Speedie Dived]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mike, if people want to protest then do but I dont want to protest. 

You did once asked my a series of questions about protesting and I answered them honestly. 

Devil's advocate, is there a limit that the owners could reach which would stop you going?

 

[Stuart]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

You make several interesting points for discussion here Stuart.  Firstly, let's remember that the club was founded in 1875 as something of a gentleman's club for the wealthier elite of the town.  As it became increasingly successful so too did the support for it amongst the general population of the town.  At that time you still had to pay a membership fee and with it came possible financial responsibilities.  Season tickets were only introduced in the 1890s because so many of the club's supporters didn't want the responsibilities of membership.  Since that point it has been owned and run by the larger shareholders.  When Jack took over he basically bought out as many of the smaller shareholders as possible.  I think the majority of us were happy to sell our shares to Jack as he had a clear vision of where he wanted to take the club.  I agree we all want a well run club that is as successful as it can be on the pitch.  At the moment it is clearly not well run but I still want it to be successful on the pitch and still enjoy supporting the team at matches.  I still feel it is the club I have always supported.  Even when I was a shareholder, I still had no real input into how the club was run, just as I don't today.  Supporters are the lifeblood of the club and that support is often passed on from generation to generation and in the past, prior to Jack taking over, those who where the major shareholders lived and worked within the town.  They were part of the community.  In many ways Jack was a bridge between the old style ownership and the modern global ownership.  Jack was Blackburn born and bred but success had enabled him to fund the club to a different level than we could ever have hoped to achieve.   After Jack's passing, the club became just one element of the Trust's business dealings and once it started to become a drain on the other businesses the Trust looked to sell.  It took years to find a buyer and all the prospective candidates were from overseas.

Many of our clubs are now becoming part and parcel of an investment portfolio of overseas owners.  Sadly, for every Chelsea or Arsenal there is a Coventry City, Blackburn Rovers or Leyton Orient.  For me this is still the same club with it's same history and links with past generations.  At the moment the present ownership has, for whatever reason, completely destroyed what the club had become.  I have no idea why they bought the club and I have no idea why they still want to retain ownership of the club, all I know is that I still believe it to be the same Blackburn Rovers that I first started watching fifty-odd years ago.  I still believe that ultimately this period will pass and that Blackburn Rovers will survive the disastrous ownership of the Rao family and will thrive again at some point in the future. 

A good post but you've not really given any reasoning. You have just said you believe it to be the same club. I can only infer that because the name is still the same it carries the history with it. A history the current owners are intent on putting a full stop at the end of.

What happens if Venkys do liquidate and a Phoenix club is born and attended by current Rovers fans and backed by Blackburn folk? Same 'club' or not?

[Parsonblue]

Just now, Stuart said:

A good post but you've not really given any reasoning. You have just said you believe it to be the same club. I can only infer that because the name is still the same it carries the history with it. A history the current owners are intent on putting a full stop at the end of.

What happens if Venkys do liquidate and a Phoenix club is born and attended by current Rovers fans and backed by Blackburn folk? Same 'club' or not?

Last time I looked it is still the same club that was founded in 1875.  I not only believe that but it is still registered as the same club with the FA and the Football League.

I assume by Phoenix club you mean at some point in the future if Blackburn Rovers ceases to exist and a new club is formed - Blackburn United or whatever - playing at Pleasington or ground sharing with Darwen then clearly if it has no links to Blackburn Rovers it is not the same club.  If, like Accrington Stanley it takes on the name of the old club and inherits it's history then it would be the same club.  Hopefully, neither scenario will happen. 

[47er]

Parson--when this idea of a Phoenix Club came up a while ago, you replied to a post of mine flatly rejecting any idea that you would be interested. I used the same arguments as Stuart has done but your reasoning was that the club you had supported for so many years would be dead and any new club would not replace it for you? Do you still feel the same?

Edit, you've just replied so to Stuart's post so I'll read that! 

Further edit! You have changed your position and I'm glad of it. 

[Dunnfc]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Last time I looked it is still the same club that was founded in 1875.  I not only believe that but it is still registered as the same club with the FA and the Football League.

I assume by Phoenix club you mean at some point in the future if Blackburn Rovers ceases to exist and a new club is formed - Blackburn United or whatever - playing at Pleasington or ground sharing with Darwen then clearly if it has no links to Blackburn Rovers it is not the same club.  If, like Accrington Stanley it takes on the name of the old club and inherits it's history then it would be the same club.  Hopefully, neither scenario will happen. 

What happens if the Blackburn Rovers & Athletic ltd gets liquidated and have a newco situation i.e Blackburn Rovers 2017 but still play at Ewood in blue and white still have the same iterlectual property like crest etc and playing in league 1/2 etc... What would your thoughts be, honest question as for me it's the same club.

[Stuart]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Last time I looked it is still the same club that was founded in 1875.  I not only believe that but it is still registered as the same club with the FA and the Football League.

I assume by Phoenix club you mean at some point in the future if Blackburn Rovers ceases to exist and a new club is formed - Blackburn United or whatever - playing at Pleasington or ground sharing with Darwen then clearly if it has no links to Blackburn Rovers it is not the same club.  If, like Accrington Stanley it takes on the name of the old club and inherits it's history then it would be the same club.  Hopefully, neither scenario will happen. 

I'd certainly take the latter over the former!

But even with the former, the links would be the people and being the designated town team. If the majority of the support followed that new team then they would have a good chance of riding through the leagues. Just look at AFC Wimbledon - a team that we will be sharing a division with next season. In the time it has taken for Venkys to take us to the third tier, Wimbledon plotted a course from formation back to the Football League. When the Raos took over Rovers, Wimbledon had only just made it back to the football league now we are on an equal footing.

[JBiz]

Just now, Stuart said:

I'd certainly take the latter over the former!

But even with the former, the links would be the people and being the designated town team. If the majority of the support followed that new team then they would have a good chance of riding through the leagues. Just look at AFC Wimbledon - a team that we will be sharing a division with next season. In the time it has taken for Venkys to take us to the third tier, Wimbledon plotted a course from formation back to the Football League. When the Raos took over Rovers, Wimbledon had only just made it back to the football league now we are on an equal footing.

If they had premier league facilities and a grade one academy they'd be "equal footing", despite  being in the same league we have a bit more to lose yet.

Plus AFC Wimbledon took 14 years to get to this level, and to be compared with the original "dons" they've got a lot to do stil - will they ever get back to the premier league?

Its all well and good waxing lyrical about newco's or a Phoenix club but I can't be the only one who sees this as the absolute worse case scenario. There is much still to fight for, with other potentially interested parties, the trust, for the facilities and the history. 

Most obvious predictions are more of the same from the owners, more slide and decline. Bringing it back to season tickets, there is no "moral high ground" if the worst case scenario happens - NAPM/Still attending will likely make no difference to the eventual outcome.

One way to look at the future though is the potential of new owners at this level or lower, in that case (with a fresh start without debt) season tickets and match revenue would be absolutely paramount to a return.

[Parsonblue]

49 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

What happens if the Blackburn Rovers & Athletic ltd gets liquidated and have a newco situation i.e Blackburn Rovers 2017 but still play at Ewood in blue and white still have the same iterlectual property like crest etc and playing in league 1/2 etc... What would your thoughts be, honest question as for me it's the same club.

Agree.  That would be the same club for me, similar to Rangers in Scotland.

[Stuart]

32 minutes ago, Biz said:

If they had premier league facilities and a grade one academy they'd be "equal footing", despite  being in the same league we have a bit more to lose yet.

Plus AFC Wimbledon took 14 years to get to this level, and to be compared with the original "dons" they've got a lot to do stil - will they ever get back to the premier league?

Its all well and good waxing lyrical about newco's or a Phoenix club but I can't be the only one who sees this as the absolute worse case scenario. There is much still to fight for, with other potentially interested parties, the trust, for the facilities and the history. 

Most obvious predictions are more of the same from the owners, more slide and decline. Bringing it back to season tickets, there is no "moral high ground" if the worst case scenario happens - NAPM/Still attending will likely make no difference to the eventual outcome.

One way to look at the future though is the potential of new owners at this level or lower, in that case (with a fresh start without debt) season tickets and match revenue would be absolutely paramount to a return.

Worst case?

Or most likely?

How long are Venkys going to continue to run the club at a loss? It may be indefinitely until Rovers sink to such a level that our gates will cover our costs and they no longer have to subsidise the operation side.

Question is, how low will we drop before that happens? Can we be competitive in League One on the back of £300 STs? If the Raos force the club to increase them to £400 or more, how many fans will continue paying for crap football? Unless they start to invest in the playing staff we will be picking up freebies and loans not wanted by other League One sides and the cycle starts again.

Every season the club has become less competitive on the field and less attractive to a new buyer - especially at the price the thickos allegedly want - and further and further away from recovery. I cannot envisage a scenario where this ends well. I genuinely think it will take one of them to die or go bankrupt to force the issue otherwise they will just keep their grip on us.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Speedie Dived said:

Devil's advocate, is there a limit that the owners could reach which would stop you going?

 

Thanks for question. 

Within all fairness all depends what they did. I judge it at the time