[Archived] Don't know where to put this

[Rover_Shaun]

Whilst what Th'uddersfield did was an extreme bending of the rules, though it happens all the time in the cups, any sanctions will go against Huddersfield. Any fine or docking of points will go against Huddersfield. Any bleating about spurious coercment is pretty pathetic.

The club needs to concentrate on beating Brentford, as they have failed to do on too many occassions this season, hence we are w@nk and deserve to go down if we do not beat Brentford

What is more concerning is Mowbrays insistance on sending out a team with surrender as its first priority. It does not bode well for a League One relegation campaign with an even worse squad.

Why can we not find a manager with a backbone?

[north_ender]

14 hours ago, McClarky said:

I think the whole thing is ridiculous. How can the EFL dictate who a manager picks for s certain game and who is to say that the team he selects isn't the best 1 for the game in question.  Squad rotation in s part and parcel of the modern game and it's outrageous if they start punishing clubs for changing their side while the bigger clubs in the PL do this week in week out.  If the rule says you have to play your strongest team they should change it rather than persecuting clubs for using their squad.

Really interested by this debate so thought I would come on and give my view.

I seem to recall Darrell Clarke the Bristol Rovers manager in the aftermath of the EFL trophy (formerly JPT) farce earlier this season saying something like once someone behind a desk with a warm cup of coffee can tell a manager who he can and can't play the game is gone. It's hard to disagree.

As a PNE fan I'm not trying to wind anyone up but I don't see what Huddersfield did wrong. You've had 45 games ultimately to ensure you weren't in this mess. Owen Coyle and your owners are at fault for where you are, not other sides. Huddersfield have worked incredibly hard to get to where they are and have the right to rest key players before the biggest games in their recent history. It's not like they played the youth team either, there were many experienced, decent players in that team on Saturday.

Emergency loans were abolished this year in the EFL so teams have had to carry bigger squads. What's the point of carrying a squad that size and not being allowed to use it when it suits you?

As I've already said, not on the wind up or anything like that, and I can sympathise with Rovers fans on this one, but ultimately you just have to focus on yourselves as at this stage. Criticising other team's selections and results is simply clutching at straws and getting away from the fact that it's your shortcomings all season long that have put you in this mess.

[Stuart]

So really odd posts on this thread. Some folk determined not to let this be "the excuse for relegation" (which it won't be).

Bringing on a sub is weakening the team? Give your head a wobble. Just consider TEN changes, taking out your entire strongest team.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Stuart said:

So really odd posts on this thread. Some folk determined not to let this be "the excuse for relegation" (which it won't be).

Bringing on a sub is weakening the team? Give your head a wobble. Just consider TEN changes, taking out your entire strongest team.

Many seem doggedly unwilling or unable to view the subject in isolation. The preference being to refer to overall season performance and poor ownership.

I do not understand their blinkered view although in a couple of cases it appears just to be contrary.

[lraC]

19 hours ago, Batman. said:

They've named a 25 man squad, and named 11 players from that 25 man squad. I'm not sure what they are obliged to do? 

If there were a rule saying that you can only make x amount of changes to your lineup from the previous game, then fine. Otherwise, I can't see a lot wrong?

Lets put this another way. This is hypothetical, but what would Huddersfield say, if the league forced them to play their play off games, using the same team, or stated that, they could only make 2-3 changes from that team. What then?

[Batman.]

Just now, lraC said:

Lets put this another way. This is hypothetical, but what would Huddersfield say, if the league forced them to play their play off games, using the same team, or stated that, they could only make 2-3 changes from that team. What then?

They would say "why did you ask us to submit a 25 man squad if we can only use 11 of them."

With respect, your point is pretty futile. We all know they rested players to look after their own interests.

My point is that it is 100% their prerogative to do so.

[lraC]

Just now, Batman. said:

They would say "why did you ask us to submit a 25 man squad if we can only use 11 of them."

With respect, your point is pretty futile. We all know they rested players to look after their own interests.

My point is that it is 100% their prerogative to do so.

I wouldn't necessarily argue with that, hence me saying it is hypothetical. I knew before the game, that Huddersfield were throwing that game and posted that on the Villa match day thread a couple of hours before kick off. I stated there is no sure win bet in football normally, but a Birmingham win was as close to it, as you will ever get. I also stated I was placing a tidy sum of money on that and duly made a nice profit.

[Batman.]

Just now, lraC said:

I wouldn't necessarily argue with that, hence me saying it is hypothetical. I knew before the game, that Huddersfield were throwing that game and posted that on the Villa match day thread a couple of hours before kick off. I stated there is no sure win bet in football normally, but a Birmingham win was as close to it, as you will ever get. I also stated I was placing a tidy sum of money on that and duly made a nice profit.

I had my suspicions they might not be "up for it," but then I thought the same about Villa. I think between Brum's early red card (now overturned) and Villa turning up in Speedos and Flip Flops, all evened itself out.

[lraC]

Just now, Batman. said:

I had my suspicions they might not be "up for it," but then I thought the same about Villa. I think between Brum's early red card (now overturned) and Villa turning up in Speedos and Flip Flops, all evened itself out.

Yeah I guess you are right there.

[AllRoverAsia]

Villa put out a first eleven.

Huddersfield did not and 'decided' to play their reserves against a team in the midst if a relegation battle.

There action gifted 3 points and was morally wrong (nobody cares) and against rules.

They are guilty and will be fined a nominal amount and all forgotten.

The rule should be enhanced or totally scraped.

Despite my strong views in this particular case I can buy into the 'squad' and rotation policy but it needs clearing up at EFL and FA levels.

 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, lraC said:

I wouldn't necessarily argue with that, hence me saying it is hypothetical. I knew before the game, that Huddersfield were throwing that game and posted that on the Villa match day thread a couple of hours before kick off. I stated there is no sure win bet in football normally, but a Birmingham win was as close to it, as you will ever get. I also stated I was placing a tidy sum of money on that and duly made a nice profit.

You did and I should have followed your advices.

[lraC]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

You did and I should have followed your advices.

I got the 6/4 I mentioned in my post and put £400 on as I said I would. I followed the odds, whilst the match was in play and after the sending off, Birmingham went to 11/4. If I hadn't already lumped on, I would probably have had the £400 on then, as I still expected Birmingham to win, after what had been said during the lead up to the game. Interestingly earlier in the week Birmingham were 9/4 to win and the odds dropped to 6/4 on Friday. At that point on one knew that those ten changes would be made, but something came about to drop the odds. You hear about irregular betting patters now and then and I would love to know if there was anything like that going on, for this game.

Sorry you didn't take the tip, but that's life.  

[blueboy3333]

£400 on a Brum game. Sweet Jesus. I've failed in life!

I might be able to cobble together a fiver for this weekend. Any tips? I might be tempted with a Rovers/ Bristol City double. Could I retire off a fiver if that bad boy came in?

 

[lraC]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

£400 on a Brum game. Sweet Jesus. I've failed in life!

I might be able to cobble together a fiver for this weekend. Any tips? I might be tempted with a Rovers/ Bristol City double. Could I retire off a fiver if that bad boy came in?

 

Its very rare I place a bet of that amount, but this was nailed on. That said, I would never bet, what I can't afford to lose, but thought it unlikely that this would lose. A fiver is the normal level for me to be honest, as I normally expect to lose. Given that, my tips for the weekend won't be worth following, but if I ever have a nailed on one again, I will let you know in advance. As all over Asia will confirm, I did put that sure bet tip out, a couple of hours before kick off.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, lraC said:

Its very rare I place a bet of that amount, but this was nailed on. That said, I would never bet, what I can't afford to lose, but thought it unlikely that this would lose. A fiver is the normal level for me to be honest, as I normally expect to lose. Given that, my tips for the weekend won't be worth following, but if I ever have a nailed on one again, I will let you know in advance. As all over Asia will confirm, I did put that sure bet tip out, a couple of hours before kick off.

how much did you win?

[lraC]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

how much did you win?

I got 6/4 so won £600.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, lraC said:

I got 6/4 so won £600.

Keep hold of it. Rovers might need it one day soon

[lraC]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Keep hold of it. Rovers might need it one day soon

It will pay part of my Rovers Trust pledge I guess. From what I have heard, some suppliers have not been paid by the club, so that might be needed sooner than we think.

[NinjaTattoo]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

So really odd posts on this thread. Some folk determined not to let this be "the excuse for relegation" (which it won't be).

Bringing on a sub is weakening the team? Give your head a wobble. Just consider TEN changes, taking out your entire strongest team.

on the flip side can you imagine if a manager was allowed 10 subs ( either ina friendly ala England of in a competitive match 10 changes would be strengthening the team.

[broadsword]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

£400 on a Brum game. Sweet Jesus. I've failed in life!

I might be able to cobble together a fiver for this weekend. Any tips? I might be tempted with a Rovers/ Bristol City double. Could I retire off a fiver if that bad boy came in?

 

Stick a cheeky chaddy on Ward to score first.

[Mike E]

If we break it down to the basics:

Every club is allowed a squad of 25 from which to select 11 players to start each game.

Every manager is employed with that responsibility, and to do so in order to achieve the best outcome for their club.

That is a simple fact of football. So why on earth should ANYBODY outside of the club be allowed to influence who the manager chooses to play in the starting eleven from that squad of 25 for any particular match?

Even the EFL have no business from a moral point of view to determine that the manager of a club cannot pick the players he wishes to pick for particular reasons at particular points in the season. It is complete nonsense, a rule that only serves to try and influence managers, and therefore a violation of its own supposed purpose!

I think of it this way:

I work with a secondary school child on a TA basis at the moment. I help him to access every lesson and achieve the best results he can. But my SENCO decided (and I agreed) to let someone else assist him in Music, as I wear hearing aids and won't help him achieve the best results for him in Music.

If the LEA then intervened in that decision and said I'm normally his TA and should be in EVERY subject, they'd be promptly given a solicitor's letter.

[den]

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Villa put out a first eleven.

Huddersfield did not and 'decided' to play their reserves against a team in the midst if a relegation battle.

There action gifted 3 points and was morally wrong (nobody cares) and against rules.

They are guilty and will be fined a nominal amount and all forgotten.

The rule should be enhanced or totally scraped.

Despite my strong views in this particular case I can buy into the 'squad' and rotation policy but it needs clearing up at EFL and FA levels.

 

 

The rules are clear. It's interpreting it that's the problem.

basically, every club must play their strongest team, that's fine. To alter that would be to allow clubs to choose games that they were prepared to forfeit - just as Huddersfield did. Does anyone REALLY want that? Is any rovers fan happy to spend fortunes going to away games in particular, see their team put on an abject performance and lose easily, or heavily? I don't think so.

this rule has been in existence for as long as I've been watching football. At one time, clubs could be asked to show doctors certificates for any player not playing for either the first team or reserve team - who used to play at the same time. When Middlesbrough failed to turn up at Elwood in the season that saw them deducted points, their argument was that they didn't have enough fit players to fulfil the fixture. The league asked for doctors certificates at that point.

however, the game has moved on and squad rotation means the application of the rule has to be relaxed. The league accept that, but know the basic premise of clubs competing fully in every game has to be upheld for reasons of basic fairness to paying fans and to other clubs in the same league. So squad rotation is fine, nobody has any real problem with that. The stance the league take now is to accept that players will be rested,  while at the same time , if there is a suspicion that a club has forfeited the result of a game they are prepared to charge that club under the long established rule.

now, as difficult as it is for the league to be seen to be acting fairly in these circumstances, if they want to uphold the rule of all clubs competing fully for a result in all games, what else can they do?

I think people are missing the point when they talk about fielding the strongest team. Even though the rule still refers to that, it's almost impossible to judge. It's far more to do with competing in a game that matters. I'm certain that's what the EFL will be looking at.

[Batman.]

It's such a difficult one to morally judge.

On one hand you could say that Huddersfield were resting some players whilst ensuring the entire squad is match fit for the event in which they are called upon in the Play-offs.

On the other hand you could say they intentionally threw the game to intentionally avoid an opponent in the Play-offs.

Either way it's impossible to judge the answer for sure, and I personally feel no anger towards Huddersfield either way. If it were the latter, I would suggest a more subtle approach would have sufficed, basically telling a "stronger 11" to take it easy in the game.

I hope the rule is removed, as I think it makes a mockery of the 25 man squad rule.

[AggyBlue]

21 minutes ago, Batman. said:

I hope the rule is removed, as I think it makes a mockery of the 25 man squad rule.

It would make the game a farce if it is removed IMO. 

I don't want to spend upwards of £1500 a season following my team only to find after some long journeys we are going to rest ten players effectively throwing the game.

If Huddersfield don't want to adhere to the leagues rules the should apply to join a different competition.

 

 

[Batman.]

Just now, AggyBlue said:

It would make the game a farce if it is removed IMO. 

I don't want to spend upwards of £1500 a season following my team only to find after some long journeys we are going to rest ten players effectively throwing the game.

If Huddersfield don't want to adhere to the leagues rules the should apply to join a different competition.

 

 

I imagine the Huddersfield fans are seething with rage that their manager rested players ahead of their Play-off campaign. 

Meanwhile, on planet earth...