[Archived] Don't know where to put this

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, punerover said:

We ourselves are to blame for the position we are in but in the words of Kevin Keegan "I will tell you, honestly, I would love it if Brum go down and uddersfield dont make the playoffs, love it".

Yes, we are to blame for the mess we are in.

So are Forest.

So were Birmingham until they were selected by Wagner to be thrown 3 precious lifebelt points.

It does not matter who the relegation participants are the point is that is wrong for a third party i.e. Huddersfield to interfere directly in its outcome.

The lame excuse used of 'resting' players so far in advance of the play offs has already been demolished.

I remain amazed that some Rovers cannot see the situation its its real simplicity.

[Batman.]

6 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

The lame excuse used of 'resting' players so far in advance of the play offs has already been demolished.

How has it been "demolished?" That's exactly what he was doing. What are you suggesting, it was a calculated decision to directly help Birmingham?

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Batman. said:

How has it been "demolished?" That's exactly what he was doing. What are you suggesting, it was a calculated decision to directly help Birmingham?

Does the resting of a complete first team 3, yes THREE weeks before their first play off game and with a final league match to play this coming Sunday make sense?

It that good player management?

Will Wagner rest these players again on Sunday?

Why are you shopping for match fixing allegations? What is MB speak for that?

[gumboots]

On a completely different note, and I really don't know where to put this, has Paul Senior begun to worry about his job security? The advert at the top of this site when I logged in was for the Senior dating agency! Lol

[Mike E]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

Does the resting of a complete first team 3, yes THREE weeks before their first play off game and with a final league match to play this coming Sunday make sense?

It that good player management?

Will Wagner rest these players again on Sunday?

Why are you shopping for match fixing allegations?

Would you not rest them (to prevent injury) and then allow them to use a couple of games to warm back up (to prevent them from seizing up)?

Resting them immediately before a series of quick succession high pressure games risks injury more than providing that rest a couple of weeks earlier.

It makes perfect sense to me.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Mike E said:

Would you not rest them (to prevent injury) and then allow them to use a couple of games to warm back up (to prevent them from seizing up)?

Resting them immediately before a series of quick succession high pressure games risks injury more than providing that rest a couple of weeks earlier.

It makes perfect sense to me.

I expect it would.

Do you think Wagner will rest the same players this Sunday?

Will Wagner allow any tackling or physical contact in training sessions?

Will he keep them wrapped in cotton wool?

Who do you want to win the play offs? Genuine question.

[gumboots]

It might make sense and in a way I agree he can manage his players as he sees fit, but it's very frustrating that we suffer because he's broken a rule that's in place and will probably get away with manipulating the league to our detriment. The rule isn't really enforceable in this day and age when loads of subs are allowed and squads are big.

 

[JHRover]

I don't think anyone can really question Wagner's motives for making such wholesale changes to his side. They had just travelled to Wolves, ground out a 1-0 win that secured a top 6 birth, and less than 3 days later had another away trip in the Midlands against a Birmingham side scrapping for their lives infront of a full house on Redknapp's home debut in what was likely to be a high intensity, energy sapping fixture.

I don't have any issue with Wagner WANTING to make such changes to his side.

Unfortunately there's a difference between what Wagner would have WANTED and what is ALLOWED. Managers are expected to abide by FL rules for good reason. All the rules are there for a reason. Just because they might be vague or difficult to enforce doesn't make it ok to blatantly ignore them. If the FL were serious about enforcing it they could find a way by analysing his selections over the season to prove his side at Birmingham wasn't his full strength.

I expect in 3 weeks time when the play offs are done that Birmingham game will stick out like a sore thumb as the obvious occasion when he wrote a game off in order to give his bigger players a rest. He won't be doing that in the play-offs and he wasn't doing it when they still had to get points to qualify.

Wagner might think he's within his rights to do that having 'earned' himself and his players a break securing a top 6 spot with 2 games to go. Unfortunately the rules don't allow it.

[Batman.]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

Does the resting of a complete first team 3, yes THREE weeks before their first play off game and with a final league match to play this coming Sunday make sense?

It that good player management?

Will Wagner rest these players again on Sunday?

Why are you shopping for match fixing allegations? What is MB speak for that?

It makes perfect sense. Give them a rest and a few days off, then allow them to return and play the last game in order to get rhythm before the okay offs.

Your OTT aggression towards what has done is ridiculous in my opinion. He's looking aftet the best interests of his club. He's a clever bloke, as can be seen by their rise. And yes, personally, I hope they win the play offs.

[gumboots]

I don't want them to win.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Mike E said:

Would you not rest them (to prevent injury) and then allow them to use a couple of games to warm back up (to prevent them from seizing up)?

Resting them immediately before a series of quick succession high pressure games risks injury more than providing that rest a couple of weeks earlier.

It makes perfect sense to me.

Ok to sensibly answer your good questions.

I would have played the best available first eldven against Brum and then seriously thought about resting key players this coming Sunday.

Having played reasonable level amateur football I know that individual players have vastly different recovery times but 2 weeks is way too much for anyone not injured.

On the injury point - I have seen many and major injuries occur on the training pitch. I saw two broken legs snapped by the player just turning too quickly with no other player contact whatsoever.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Batman. said:

It makes perfect sense. Give them a rest and a few days off, then allow them to return and play the last game in order to get rhythm before the okay offs.

Your OTT aggression towards what has done is ridiculous in my opinion. He's looking aftet the best interests of his club. He's a clever bloke, as can be seen by their rise. And yes, personally, I hope they win the play offs.

OTT give over LOL

I'm for Fulham and Tom.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, gumboots said:

I don't want them to win.

Thumbs up. Fulham and Tom for me.

Huddersfield to embarassingly tank due to lack of match fifness a bonus.

[den]

Just now, gumboots said:

It might make sense and in a way I agree he can manage his players as he sees fit, but it's very frustrating that we suffer because he's broken a rule that's in place and will probably get away with manipulating the league to our detriment. The rule isn't really enforceable in this day and age when loads of subs are allowed and squads are big.

 

It IS enforceable GB, because they've been charged and will likely be punished.

as for the rest of the argument, there's a huge difference between squad rotation and fielding an entire second eleven for one game. Squad rotation should be about allowing players out of game time at different intervals, in order to be able to regularly field a team that isn't suffering fatigue unnecessarily. Dropping the entire first team isn't rotation, it's as near as you can get to writing the game and result off - and for me that's not being fair to all of the other teams, or more importantly to the fans paying fortunes to watch the game. 

Oh, and it's totally unnecessary. They shouldn't have done what they did, they didn't need to do what they did and they knowingly flaunted the rules.

[Batman.]

They've been charged? I missed that. Any speculation on the likely punishment? A fine I presume?

[AllRoverAsia]

....they knowingly flaunted the rules in favour of a team involved in a relegation battle.

[den]

Just now, Batman. said:

They've been charged? I missed that. Any speculation on the likely punishment? A fine I presume?

Ah, right.....

im not fully up to date with this, but the last I heard was that Huddersfield had been asked for their comments about their team selection. The league have said any punishment wouldn't affect any points totals, but would only affect Hudson directly - which means to me, a fine. Someone else night know better?

[AggyBlue]

12 minutes ago, Batman. said:

They've been charged? I missed that. Any speculation on the likely punishment? A fine I presume?

Are you the Birmingham City or Huddersfield Town spokesperson on this issue?

You seem to be posting far too many posts whilst answering/arguing with anyone who suggests any wrongdoing. 

It isn't a chatroom, what's wrong with posting your opinion and leaving it at that?

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, AggyBlue said:

Are you the Birmingham City and Huddersfield Town spokesperson on this issue?

You seem to be posting far too many posts whilst answering/arguing with anyone who suggests any wrongdoing. 

It isn't a chatroom, what's wrong with posting your opinion and leaving it at that?

Para 1 corrected

[AggyBlue]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

Para 1 corrected

Cheers.

This is the reason these threads keep going round and round and round and .......

[jim mk2]

Hudds were in their rights to rest players - the fact they were playing Birmingham who are in a relegation fight is irrelevant.

My issue is the number of players they rested - virtually a whole team - and the possibility that Harry might have "coerced" them into doing so either directly or certainly indirectly through the media.

[Batman.]

Just now, AggyBlue said:

Are you the Birmingham City or Huddersfield Town spokesperson on this issue?

You seem to be posting far too many posts whilst answering/arguing with anyone who suggests any wrongdoing. 

It isn't a chatroom, what's wrong with posting your opinion and leaving it at that?

Okay, so we're allowed five changes per match, and one post per thread?

It's called a debate. Debates generally go back and forth. If you don't like it, don't read it.

I'm trying to diplomatically understand the grievances of people. If i disagree, i state why. I think it's an interesting discussion, so I am far more active than I usually am.

If you have a problem with this, I literally couldn't care less.

[AllRoverAsia]

7 minutes ago, AggyBlue said:

Cheers.

This is the reason these threads keep going round and round and round and .......

I blame the EFL  who are too busy buying cheap fibre optic cable to update their rule book.

[Blue blood]

Regardless of wrongdoing the rule is unenforceable imo, as there as so, so many ambiguous circumstances:

 

- What about when other teams have done so? Big clubs do it all the time. What if it's before an important cup tie earlier on in the season?

- How do you judge a player 's quality is weakening the team - for example Man City's second 11 contains many internationals who're arguably better than the opponents first 11 - does that count?

- What about the FA Cup where it is massively obvious teams are fielding weaker players?

- Does it only matter depending on the result?

- Does it only count against teams that can be impacted, as lots of teams play weaker teams/blood youngsters in the final game? is this not allowed? I remember when we went up under Souness the last meaningless game vs Portsmouth we played a very weakened team. Can't remember there being an uproar at that.

- Is it about the number of changes made? If so what about players who would be first 11 but have come back from injuries so didn't play the last game/haven't played much due to injury?

- What about knocks and not risking the 50-50 players who would otherwise have played had the game had more high stakes?
- What about changes due to tactical planning?

 

Now I'm not for a moment saying that Hudds did anything other than rest players for the playoffs but I think the questions highlight how impossible it is to police the rule. There's massive inconsistencies and a lot of other games should also be looked at if Hudds are found guilty. Most of the FA Cup 3rd round for starters...

I also reckon a clever club could argue their way through the changes - A and B were carrying knocks and didn't want to risk them, C and D were tactical switches, we wanted more pace etc., E is a first teamer but hasn't played much due to injuries, and we wanted a look at a couple of youngsters.

 

No like most things the EFL is about as much use as a chocolate teapot and half as effective.

[den]

Don't understand how you can say it's unenforceable BB, when other clubs have been fined and Hudds could well be.