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[den]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

Just download the Kodi app direct from Kodi onto your pc. Nothing at all illegal in doing that. Kodi is just a media player app.

"I would also warn any person .......operating such a device that they are in breach of copyright law. National Trading Standards will continue to protect legitimate business and pursue those who breach copyright in this way."
 

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, den said:

"I would also warn any person .......operating such a device that they are in breach of copyright law. National Trading Standards will continue to protect legitimate business and pursue those who breach copyright in this way."
 

Temporary storage of a delayed stream on a pc is not a breach of copywright. If the new act changed this I do not yet know. Accessing a subscription service without paying is I believe a civil matter unless again changed very recently.

[den]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

Temporary storage of a delayed stream on a pc is not a breach of copywright. If the new act changed this I do not yet know. Accessing a subscription service without paying is I believe a civil matter unless again changed very recently.

I'm not an expert in any of this, I'm just forwarding links to a few developments. Biddy, Glen et al know more than me.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, den said:

I'm not an expert in any of this, I'm just forwarding links to a few developments. Biddy, Glen et al know more than me.

Thanks I do find the subject interesting but am myself no expert.

Edited May 5, 2017 by AllRoverAsia

[jim mk2]

Some way or other I would imagine this service will become available for domestic users.

Unwelcome development in my view. Football is nothing without spectators and this will be just another excuse for fans not attending matches.

[AllRoverAsia]

I expect it to have a lot of impact in promoting the EFL internationally and potentially make the EFL more attractive to the major international broadcasters.

I can see the Championship becoming PL2 and the money that comes with it.

Big money comes to the Championship just as we are leaving. Got a familiar ring to it.

[Biddy]

Just now, den said:

I'm not an expert in any of this, I'm just forwarding links to a few developments. Biddy, Glen et al know more than me.

According to reports, under the Digital Economy Act "Anyone caught streaming TV shows, films and sports events illegally using websites, torrents and Kodi add-ons could technically face a decade behind bars."

So now it is a criminal offence no matter what device you use it on.  My only bug bear is the focusing on Kodi when in truth it is streaming on any device.

Just to add, I haven't technically got a problem with that legislation where a legal alternative is available in the territory.  It's hardly fair however when, for example the EFL deal is not legally available to us in the UK.  Therefore we have to break the law to be able to watch something anyone else in the world can.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Biddy

[Glenn]

I'm not entirely sure of the legality of receiving a stream myself. I know the Kodi sellers used to tout an EU rule designed to protect journalists from prosecution for viewing something on a website that is publicly accessible. Quite how this works when it's a non-journalist for obvious reasons of infringing copyright, I don't know.

I am also aware of the lack of prosecutions for downloading/streaming (rather than broadcasting / selling).

However, I can see where this is heading. The government is already expecting ISPs to provide logs of traffic on request. Getting away with it at the moment is trivial, but one day, in the not too  distant future, there will be a massive crackdown on people streaming dodgy content because the rights holders have power and influence over the government 

 

[Glenn]

Just now, Biddy said:

 My only bug bear is the focusing on Kodi when in truth it is streaming on any device.

Same here, vilifying a legitimate and useful tool (though I moved from xbmc to plex before xbmc became Kodi) for the sake of easy reporting is bit torrent / tor / bit coin all over again. 

[Biddy]

Just now, Glenn said:

I'm not entirely sure of the legality of receiving a stream myself. I know the Kodi sellers used to tout an EU rule designed to protect journalists from prosecution for viewing something on a website that is publicly accessible. Quite how this works when it's a non-journalist for obvious reasons of infringing copyright, I don't know.

I am also aware of the lack of prosecutions for downloading/streaming (rather than broadcasting / selling).

However, I can see where this is heading. The government is already expecting ISPs to provide logs of traffic on request. Getting away with it at the moment is trivial, but one day, in the not too  distant future, there will be a massive crackdown on people streaming dodgy content because the rights holders have power and influence over the government 

 

I still believe it will take too much time and effort to go after any individual downloading or streaming.  As you say, there is a distinct lack of prosecutions, more scare mongering than anything else.  They have always tended to go after those seeking to earn money from activities like sellers.

Behind the scenes though, they have managed to bring in new technologies that can interrupt or take down streams based on algorithms.  I can only see that technology getting better and easier to target.  So I think illegal streaming will just get harder to do.  Whether they can stop that over VPN, is yet to be seen.

[DE.]

36 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Can you still have a VPN if you are uk based?

Tunnelbear works for me. Only way I can read the otherwise banned Daily Mail...for footy only!

You can use a VPN anywhere. For now nobody is going to jail for privately streaming, but as Glen says, it's likely to start happening in the future.

It's scary how indiscriminate they are being over this type of thing. It's only recently people were getting warning letters over downloading torrents even if the torrents they had downloaded were completely legal.

At the moment those letters have no power, but over time that will change. The UK Government is pushing to erode our rights day after day and once we leave the EU I expect that process to accelerate substantially. 

[Glenn]

Oh and just wait until VPNs are made illegal (and before you say 'never' , remember this is the same government that's trying to ban strong E2E crypto) because it stops the snooping on you ..... no, I mean terrorists .... no child ... hang on, what's the current reason for wanting to ban what is essentially maths?

 

[Biddy]

Just now, Glenn said:

Oh and just wait until VPNs are made illegal (and before you say 'never' , remember this is the same government that's trying to ban strong E2E crypto) because it stops the snooping on you ..... no, I mean terrorists .... no child ... hang on, what's the current reason for wanting to ban what is essentially maths?

 

this is turning into a technology thread  But that is fairly scare mongering with VPN.  The numbers of home users running VPN's will be fairly insignificant.  The numbers of businesses running VPN as a necessity to connect offices and to clients is immense.  They might make stupid off the cuff comments about it but that will just show up their complete lack of understanding of the technology.

Online VPN "Services" could be targeted however.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Biddy

[DE.]

Just now, Glenn said:

Oh and just wait until VPNs are made illegal (and before you say 'never' , remember this is the same government that's trying to ban strong E2E crypto) because it stops the snooping on you ..... no, I mean terrorists .... no child ... hang on, what's the current reason for wanting to ban what is essentially maths?

To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised that the internet has been allowed to remain as 'free' as it has for this long. We're still in a position now where you can go to google, type in an album or song and usually find a link to download it for free within moments. ISP's have started to combat this by blocking torrent sites, but that's still a flawed and incomplete tactic.

I expect that in the next ten years we will see a much more regulated internet in the UK. Possibly a selection of portals and specific websites that you pay to have access to, as opposed to the entire internet. I'm sure I remember reading about this being in the works a few years ago, but then it died down. Ultimately that is the only way the Government will be able to get a firm grip on how people use the internet, as the current tactic of blocking websites and scaremongering can only ever have a limited effect.

Some will say that the people wouldn't stand for that, but they will. There might be a few protests, but once that dies down we will all accept it as the norm and start to forget what this period of the internet was like.

[Biddy]

Just now, DE. said:

To be perfectly honest, I'm surprised that the internet has been allowed to remain as 'free' as it has for this long. We're still in a position now where you can go to google, type in an album or song and usually find a link to download it for free within moments. ISP's have started to combat this by blocking torrent sites, but that's still a flawed and incomplete tactic.

I expect that in the next ten years we will see a much more regulated internet in the UK. Possibly a selection of portals and specific websites that you pay to have access to, as opposed to the entire internet. I'm sure I remember reading about this being in the works a few years ago, but then it died down. Ultimately that is the only way the Government will be able to get a firm grip on how people use the internet, as the current tactic of blocking websites and scaremongering can only ever have a limited effect.

Some will say that the people wouldn't stand for that, but they will. There might be a few protests, but once that dies down we will all accept it as the norm and start to forget what this period of the internet was like.

Wow, that sounds like China. (and even they can't stop people breaking through the "Great Firewall of China")

[AllRoverAsia]

Christ on a bike.

1984 and Things to Come in an hour.

I know why I am where I am

 

[DE.]

Just now, Biddy said:

Wow, that sounds like China. (and even they can't stop people breaking through the "Great Firewall of China")

We're already facing a restricted internet with certain websites being blocked by our ISPs through Government order. It's not a stretch imo to think that eventually this will lead to an entirely regulated internet experience in the not too distant future.

[jim mk2]

The internet needs stringent regulation. The free-for-all cannot continue, and has led to major security risks around the world. Google and ISPs need reining in, and held to account over the content they allow to be displayed. Employing journalists would be a start, and help to compensate for the thousands of jobs they have destroyed in the newspaper industry.  Brussels, as always, will play a big role in increasing regulation, one reason why the EU is force for good.

[Glenn]

Just now, DE. said:

We're already facing a restricted internet with certain websites being blocked by our ISPs through Government order. It's not a stretch imo to think that eventually this will lead to an entirely regulated internet experience in the not too distant future.

The good news is that whilst the uk now has some of the most draconian inti-privacy snooping and surveillance laws in the world, the internet itself was designed to be resilient  and works around problems. Whilst that was true in a technical sense, it's true in practical sense too and both censorship and mass survelience are treated as problems. 

The government will always be 10 steps behind the technologists in that regard.

 

[Stuart]

It's about time, instead of cracking down on this kind of thing the big companies accepted there is a market and give the consumer what they want: reasonable priced, quality content on a rental basis.

Just look at Napster. It was illegal and then in became legitimate and created a competitive market for music streaming: Spotify, Deezer, even Apple Music (eventually caught up).

Same thing required for the latest movies and for sport. There is a market. If you remove and prosecute it will drive another market with another loophole. It would be interesting to see some stats but I expect illegal music downloading - a scourge only a few years ago - will be all but gone, because you can have a quality service relatively cheaply.

The video shop was killed off and the cinema experience is dead. It's hugely overpriced and has become an event in itself to go out as a family. The only time it's full is when you get the latest mega blockbuster in IMAX and that's for about a week.

There IS a market for watching 3pm football - particularly for away punters. It would force clubs to implement to 20's plenty pricing and supplement through streaming revenue. Maybe it's something you could opt in to as part of a season ticket deal that you can watch your club's away games. I honestly think it would complement the matchday experience as fans will still travel. Just look at the away following on Sunday for a televised game. When you look at some of the (pitiful) away followings at Ewood this season, we would probably make more money through your average Brentford fan logging in and paying a fiver than charging £20 for the fee that turn up.

[Glenn]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

The internet needs stringent regulation. The free-for-all cannot continue, and has led to major security risks around the world. Google and ISPs need reining in, and held to account over the content they allow to be displayed. Employing journalists would be a start, and help to compensate for the thousands of jobs they have destroyed in the newspaper industry.  Brussels, as always, will play a big role in increasing regulation, one reason why the EU is force for good.

I have to disagree. The internet has never been nor ever will be a free for all, laws still apply there every bit as much as they do in the real world, it's just the enforcement that's been slow to catch up.

On security risks, as a former journo, I'd have expected you to have actually researched that a little before making such strong claims. The role of internet and strong encryption in terror related incidents, with the exception of recruitment, is negligible. Genuinely! You'd think covert encrypted back channels and sopositcated command and control structures were the norm, but it's all done face to face or using SMS (that the government has intercepted for decades). 

And even if strong crypto was outlawed, what difference would it make? Your average suicide bomber isn't going to have some moral issue at using illegal software. Plus, it's just maths and ciphers have been in use since Ceasars time. You can't outlaw it any more than you can outlaw telling the time.

As for journalism, whilst it's decimated your industry, much of that was simply because it was a disruptive technology that the industry was slow to react to. Initially people were wooed by free and fast content, they've now realised that that comes at a price (accuracy) as the rise in 'alternative facts' has shown. It's taken too long, but people have finally woken up to it.

So, now we're coming into an era where people don't mind paying for quality journalism and even free sources are finding business models where quality investagetive journalism can thrive. Admittedly, it's not there yet, but it's getting there.

[A cup of beans]

19 minutes ago, Glenn said:

The good news is that whilst the uk now has some of the most draconian inti-privacy snooping and surveillance laws in the world, the internet itself was designed to be resilient  and works around problems. Whilst that was true in a technical sense, it's true in practical sense too and both censorship and mass survelience are treated as problems. 

The government will always be 10 steps behind the technologists in that regard.

 

I think that is the most relevant point. The technologists will always win out.

As far as the paid subscription Kodi apps, these are all based out of the UK, where issues of streaming and piracy are the norm. You don't need a VPN for that content to reach your home (as ive never had one).

Killing individual links etc.. is pointless as another will prop up within minutes. The only way to stop it is by legal process, to close down the whole streaming app/ site, but where they (UK) may not even have jurisdiction.  

In an ideal world, the broadcasters would continue to lose subscribers and will then strive to make their subscriptions cheaper/ more affordable to the masses.

 

 

[andyh]

As a 1960's vintage Rovers fan who has lived in the US for many years I am delighted by this development - even if we get relegated. I was resigned to Saturday being the last match that I could watch on tv for many years, so this is great news. Without the luxury of being able to attend matches very often, I view 110 pounds (approx $140) for the season as good value.

For interest, Major League Soccer (MLS) offer a similar streaming service here, with live coverage of all games except those on US national tv. They charge $80 / season. Rather than this showing that the EFL are charging too much, I think it demonstrates the popularity of English football, even below the Premiership, and says that the MLS still has some way to go.

[Fraserkirky]

As someone who listens to Rovers Player for every game. This is the best news ever. Bout time.

will be watching next season no matter what division.

[USABlue]

I love it. I was grumbling to the missus I'd never see us live now we are relegated then this.  It's great but obviously I have a bias due to where I live.  Don't understand why those on home shores can not have a similar service.

So, how do I sign up?

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by USABlue