[Archived] Blackburn Squad 2017/18

[OJRovers]

44 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

Just a very very rushed and rounded summary, to see the affects of the falls in revenue and tv and what we would have to implement something akin to the below which encapsulates the correlation of complying with the 60% turnover of wages (roughly) for FFP compliance to avoid an embargo. Still showing just shy of 7million funding to be required for next year on this assumption but that's all in my proposal which is pretty hefty and not for putting in a forum post (Would fill the thread!!!). Staff of two million is those working at club so allows for 70 people on avg 30k per annum before contributions. 

Managerial coaches first team and academy players and director remuneration is inc in operating expenses along with bonus payments for goals appearances etc. Usually in football club accounts you just get three lines although Sheff Utd one of the case studies I've used actually has four as it includes the academy revenue as per below the usual three:

1. Commercial
2. Media
3. Matchday

They usually appear as the income streams so hopefully proposing a split like that still based on just those three/four displays some idea which would garner the turnover to creep up slightly on existing and explain in more detail as to how the main three are made up. Please note Players is usually classified underneath as trading however as I'm being very rough and not producing accounts see the rough summary below lol:

 

Edit

[blueboy3333]

Just now, JHRover said:

Ooops, Mike Cheston has been hoping nobody would spot that little factor!

Read the season ticket sales pitch:

'In this era of Financial Fair Play, ticket revenue is extremely important to the club, in order to help fund a competitive team'

This is no joke. This actually appears on the season ticket renewal page on the website.

The brass neck of these people.

We had a competitive team, thanks to Gary Bowyer's good work, they set about dismantling it every transfer window, trousering tens of millions and reinvesting nothing from it back into the squad.

Now they're trying to guilt trip normal supporters into feeling responsible for the standard of playing squad we put out?

As ever, if Venkys wanted to spend they could. Yet still they use FFP as an excuse.

 

I wasn't aware of the rule so it certainly puts things in a different light. League1&2 are different to any other division as regards investment as the link shows. So they could pump a lot of money in to take us back up, but we know they won't, so ST's are still vital for revenue.  

Agree with what you say though.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php

FFP rules for League 1&2 clubs.

-Youth players on pro contracts are excluded from 60% turnover/wage calculation as long as they are 20yo or under at the start of the season.

- Owners can 'donate' as much money as they like to clubs in Lg1&2 and it can be included in the FFP 60% calc. So, in theory, Venky's could donate £10m and we wouldn't be in breach of any rules and could pay higher wages.

I know, I know!

 

You are correct but that'd exclude 4-5 as Mahoney has played more than five games last year. So in theory around 70 k a body and five of them say allows 350 k to the fund pot, works out roughly 7k a week so it might keep Danny Guthrie.

correct on the injection of cash but the EFL in league 1/2 do not allow purchase of shares or loaning so it must be made by donation and given more regular cash flows are to be submitted in L1 I can imagine quarterly basis then I think the EFL will want to see these funds in advance.

need at least 7 million on the rough calcs above I said a minimum 8 on my own workings the other day and Nixon I think mentioned 10.

that last roster I produced equates to 56 percent of turnover before any injection btw

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

You are correct but that'd exclude 4-5 as Mahoney has played more than five games last year. So in theory around 70 k a body and five of them say allows 350 k to the fund pot, works out roughly 7k a week so it might keep Danny Guthrie.

correct on the injection of cash but the EFL in league 1/2 do not allow purchase of shares or loaning so it must be made by donation and given more regular cash flows are to be submitted in L1 I can imagine quarterly basis then I think the EFL will want to see these funds in advance.

need at least 7 million on the rough calcs above I said a minimum 8 on my own workings the other day and Nixon I think mentioned 10.

Where does it mention games played as a factor?

I know it's a donation, I made the point in my post.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I wasn't aware of the rule so it certainly puts things in a different light. League1&2 are different to any other division as regards investment as the link shows. So they could pump a lot of money in to take us back up, but we know they won't, so ST's are still vital for revenue.  

Agree with what you say though.

Certainly are but look at the ideas on how I've split it out in that rough summary, they're equally a good source to garner more income. All routes require exploring

[Dunnfc]

19 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Where does it mention games played as a factor?

I know it's a donation, I made the point in my post.

I swear I've seen something relating to youth and appearances for the first team but on the context your perhaps correct it would give you a Jason Lowe on 11k a week or chance to sign Danny Guthrie again and put the rest of the wages to another position or vacancy etc. Mahoney already 20 

Question is how does the donation go in? If it's staged then I can't imagine it's allowed to then increase the wage bill as that's checked under SCMP rules frequently and must reflect the 60% of turnover, however if they put in a lump sum say 7 million on day one of the season then in theory you could add an additional 60% of that to your playing budget around circa 4.2 million (I know I know) as technically the funds are still classed as turnover but then we'd been in the same situation as having no capital to cover operating expenses. On the premise they continue in the same vain as we've seen in recent seasons and just fund the expenses then that 6.2 ish budget worked against the turnover of say 11 million looks like this amended without the kids and inclusive of Lowe. I didn't realise Conor Thomson is older than 20! but as the youth are mainly on 1k or less then it's far from big bucks. Certainly gives you a picture and shows the task TM has this summer if he don't get cracking soon. or some cash.

 

 

[blueboy3333]

@Dunnfc What they should do, and what they owe the club and the town, is to ask TM what he needs to build a squad that can have a chance of getting out of League 1 at the first attempt. They should then 'donate' the shortfall in turnover that would keep the squad TM wants under the 60% ratio. If they do that we have a chance.

Mowbray will be having those discussions at the moment I'd imagine. Time is of the essence because all the good players out of contract will be being snapped up.

If they don't back him he'll walk. We should find out in the next week or two.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

@Dunnfc What they should do, and what they owe the club and the town, is to ask TM what he needs to build a squad that can have a chance of getting out of League 1 at the first attempt. They should then 'donate' the shortfall in turnover that would keep the squad TM wants under the 60% ratio. If they do that we have a chance.

Mowbray will be having those discussions at the moment I'd imagine. Time is of the essence because all the good players out of contract will be being snapped up.

If they don't back him he'll walk. We should find out in the next week or two.

100 percent agree. Loss expenses need covering first to see the season out, then additional made available on top for transfers and more wages. Easily then 10 million

[lraC]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

@Dunnfc What they should do, and what they owe the club and the town, is to ask TM what he needs to build a squad that can have a chance of getting out of League 1 at the first attempt. They should then 'donate' the shortfall in turnover that would keep the squad TM wants under the 60% ratio. If they do that we have a chance.

Mowbray will be having those discussions at the moment I'd imagine. Time is of the essence because all the good players out of contract will be being snapped up.

If they don't back him he'll walk. We should find out in the next week or two.

You would hope that someone would get hold of them and give them that simple message. Given that Tony Mowbray has stated that he has meetings with the owners, you would hope that he will say exactly that and try to get them to back him. I get the impression that Mowbray is the no nonsense type and if he tries that and gets knocked back, he will say it as it is and leave.

[Leyland-Rover]

Oh to be a fly on the wall.

[roverstdt]

For me we should look at a few youth players for next year. I would like to see us have a look at Doyle, Wharton, Mansell, Hardcastle, Thomson, Tomlimson a little more and see where they are at

[Leyland-Rover]

Rankin-Costello ought to be in your list too. He doesn't mind being a bit rough and in your face, so could be suited to League 1.

Tomlinson is brilliant at putting in a solid tackle which are great to watch. I think he'll be our best youth player if he's a regular first teamer. Wharton too.

The others I don't know if they are "ready" yet, but they'd have my backing if the entire U23 squad was on the team sheet for the first game of the season. At least they'd know and understand each other and be able to learn and grow together. Especially if Dunn and Johnson are No.1 & 2.

[Irishrover213]

Now is their chance to show how serious they are about getting this club back now to championship.

It needs investment and money for players out of contract. The anyone who id keep is Guthrie. Mahoney was off regardless.

The statement said Mowbray has full support. That says to me we will keep him in the job but any transfer offers come in & the players are gone but there will be no money coming again.

I dare say next season could be defined after Mowbray meets with owners

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Leyland-Rover said:

Rankin-Costello ought to be in your list too. He doesn't mind being a bit rough and in your face, so could be suited to League 1.

Tomlinson is brilliant at putting in a solid tackle which are great to watch. I think he'll be our best youth player if he's a regular first teamer. Wharton too.

The others I don't know if they are "ready" yet, but they'd have my backing if the entire U23 squad was on the team sheet for the first game of the season. At least they'd know and understand each other and be able to learn and grow together. Especially if Dunn and Johnson are No.1 & 2.

Don't give Cheston any ideas FFS!

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

Ooops, Mike Cheston has been hoping nobody would spot that little factor!

Read the season ticket sales pitch:

'In this era of Financial Fair Play, ticket revenue is extremely important to the club, in order to help fund a competitive team'

This is no joke. This actually appears on the season ticket renewal page on the website.

The brass neck of these people.

We had a competitive team, thanks to Gary Bowyer's good work, they set about dismantling it every transfer window, trousering tens of millions and reinvesting nothing from it back into the squad.

Now they're trying to guilt trip normal supporters into feeling responsible for the standard of playing squad we put out?

As ever, if Venkys wanted to spend they could. Yet still they use FFP as an excuse.

 

Plenty of fans think the same thing...

Or they just happily swallow whatever the club gives them to swallow.

[Dunnfc]

22 minutes ago, Irishrover213 said:

Now is their chance to show how serious they are about getting this club back now to championship.

It needs investment and money for players out of contract. The anyone who id keep is Guthrie. Mahoney was off regardless.

The statement said Mowbray has full support. That says to me we will keep him in the job but any transfer offers come in & the players are gone but there will be no money coming again.

I dare say next season could be defined after Mowbray meets with owners

I'd keep Lowe if he's on less than 10k/11k, no more. Certainly wouldn't be captain next year, Mulgrew then Bennett for me.

Showed enough qualities at times before the season end, like it or not the lad is 25, 26 now and a seasoned campaigner. 

What is clear is we can't go giving three year deals for a while bar Mahoney. Players this year are most likely going to be league one battlers so it's a year deal with the option of a second at the clubs discretion. 2 years for players with potential and a good age. 

[RoversClitheroe]

I genuinely don't think any of:

Mulgrew, Lenihan, Lowe, Stokes, Guthrie, Graham etc will be here come start of the season. 

Let's be realistic here. We currently have no money and we need to get rid of high earners. 

[Dunnfc]

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

I genuinely don't think any of:

Mulgrew, Lenihan, Lowe, Stokes, Guthrie, Graham etc will be here come start of the season. 

Let's be realistic here. We currently have no money and we need to get rid of high earners. 

I think deep down and being realistic we might not have a choice with Lenihan, call don't come from India, left waiting and needing some funds to keep the lights on and we accept a derisory 1million offer for him to keep us going till india get back to us.

Based on 35% wage cut which seems pretty usual with other clubs you could keep either one of Guthrie or Lowe and get rid of the other,  off load Feeney and then retain Mulgrew, Stokes and Graham.

What it does is imbalances the squad depth and severely as shown above, where your promoting 7 kids to act as depth. Suppose it's on a scale of this year with Hendrie, Samuelsson, Nyambe, Wharton etc.

[blueboy3333]

If Graham is on £26Kpw it would be lunacy to keep him even if he has a big relegation clause. We simply can't afford him. Same with Mulgrew.

2kpw is the average in League 1.

 

[Dunnfc]

24 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

If Graham is on £26Kpw it would be lunacy to keep him even if he has a big relegation clause. We simply can't afford him. Same with Mulgrew.

2kpw is the average in League 1.

 

I did say the other week the chances are he will be offloaded on a free to someone like Wolves in exchange for a free disposal of him. Someone like Joe Garner or a Jamie Proctor then in to replace him.

2.5k is around the lower average in league 1, top player wages currently command around 10k mark. Using that 2k average is probably a bad indicator given various clubs helped by the below paragraph (turnover figures) oversee significant levels of wage levels what exist in the league, Sheffield United (112 Playing & 64 non) 2016 (11.35 m), Millwall (66 Playing and staff, 80 non) 2016 (7.99M) Bristol City 2016 (51 Playing and Staff, 90 non) (9.55M), Bury 2016 (Just promoted to L1 - staff given as total 96) 4.25 million. 

You have to consider the vast changes in turnover (Income) prior to player trading which fluctuate in the league; for example Coventry who have no income from a stadium was still around 5 million last year, Sheffield United 10.7 million, Millwall 8.32 million, Bristol City (Before Promotion 2016 filing) 7.2 million, Bury 2016 (Just promoted to L1) 4.3 million. 

[Rover_Shaun]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

Ooops, Mike Cheston has been hoping nobody would spot that little factor!

Read the season ticket sales pitch:

'In this era of Financial Fair Play, ticket revenue is extremely important to the club, in order to help fund a competitive team'

This is no joke. This actually appears on the season ticket renewal page on the website.

The brass neck of these people.

We had a competitive team, thanks to Gary Bowyer's good work, they set about dismantling it every transfer window, trousering tens of millions and reinvesting nothing from it back into the squad.

Now they're trying to guilt trip normal supporters into feeling responsible for the standard of playing squad we put out?

As ever, if Venkys wanted to spend they could. Yet still they use FFP as an excuse.

 

I also like how they have frozen season ticket prices

That's nice of them considering they should come down in line with being a league one rubbin rag club now :/

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, Dunnfc said:

I swear I've seen something relating to youth and appearances for the first team but on the context your perhaps correct it would give you a Jason Lowe on 11k a week or chance to sign Danny Guthrie again and put the rest of the wages to another position or vacancy etc. Mahoney already 20 

Question is how does the donation go in? If it's staged then I can't imagine it's allowed to then increase the wage bill as that's checked under SCMP rules frequently and must reflect the 60% of turnover, however if they put in a lump sum say 7 million on day one of the season then in theory you could add an additional 60% of that to your playing budget around circa 4.2 million (I know I know) as technically the funds are still classed as turnover but then we'd been in the same situation as having no capital to cover operating expenses. On the premise they continue in the same vain as we've seen in recent seasons and just fund the expenses then that 6.2 ish budget worked against the turnover of say 11 million looks like this amended without the kids and inclusive of Lowe. I didn't realise Conor Thomson is older than 20! but as the youth are mainly on 1k or less then it's far from big bucks. Certainly gives you a picture and shows the task TM has this summer if he don't get cracking soon. or some cash.

 

 

Firstly thanks for doing this work above outstanding effort.

Nixon has confirmed to me that Graham and Mulgrew do have relegation percentage wage drop in their contract.

I think Mulgrew, Stokes, Lowe and Mahoney will be leaving this summer. So that's does free some cash up for free transfers(plus a couple of cheap signings aswell) signings. But we need experience Keeper, Centre back, pacey winger, 2 strikers and 2 centre midfielders.

keeper - Jon McLaughlin (Ex Burton keeper just released)

Centre back - Nathan Thompson (ex Swindon) or Willis from Coventry but that would be a cash buy but only around 250k

Pacey Winger - Nathaniel Mendez Laing (Ex Rochdale) or Lloyd Isgrove

2 strikers - Lyle Taylor, Jonathon Obika, James Vaughan(Cash Sale), Paddy Madden(Cash Buy)

2 centre midfielders - Louis Thompson, Liam Trotter, Jack Price, Ryan Tunnicliffe

[Dunnfc]

1 hour ago, Rover_Shaun said:

I also like how they have frozen season ticket prices

That's nice of them considering they should come down in line with being a league one rubbin rag club now :/

Really? I think to be fair to the club they still are "Competitively" priced in comparison and possibly to cheap given how critical income streams are becoming. Here is an analysis based on our new prices for 2017-2018 to this years season tickets in league one, comparison below with the red indicating teams being more expensive and by how much (Our cheapest is Riverside and most expensive JW centre):

 

 

 

 

[Mike E]

Given that I believe Raya is ready for our 1st team, the backup keeper should be player/coach to guide him further imo. Shay Given?

[roversfan99]

All these wages are pure conjecture. How do we know they are correct?