[Archived] Bayes, Seneca and Nixon interview

[gumboots]

I've never understood this tide of enthusiasm for the Seneca bid, were one to be tabled. I want the best possible owners for Rovers, even if they are Burnley fans at heart. It's about having the cash and expertise to turn around a failing, ailing, fractured club, not about being a fan. 

It may be that Seneca and whoever they get on board with them are capable of doing that job, but they may not be either. I think it's a case of wait and see who and what turns up if and when the Rao family get out. Hopefully we won't have long to wait

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

I dont think you've actually properly read a word I put in my post chaddy.

Seneca supposedly handle the affairs of high net worth individuals. In what way does Blackburn Rovers constitute a legitimate "investment."?

Was not aware of Currie's previous involvment with Bolton but given the mess they ended up in is that necessarily a ringing endorsement?

Currie'involvement there was around 8 or 10 years ago. Around the time Big Sam was there and them in the top 6. 

Rovers would be a long term investment for any new owners. It would required them to short, medium and long term targets and goals. But the club has to be run right financially and marketing alot better than it is currently. If we were under new owners then we would more ST holders and more companies would sponsor the club more. 

The long term goal would be the PL were the money will be there. Any PL club outside the top 7 shouldnt need investment with all the TV money around now. Only going up now

Plus with Battersby and Currie(plus Other Seneca employees) being very experience business people and would bring together vast knowledge and expertise. Think Battersby has said in the past he or Currie wouldnt run the club but they would appoint experience football people to run the club

[47er]

5 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Dunn fc is quite right to be sceptical about the two Ian's. The Seneca interest has never made the slightest bit of sense. It doesnt matter if you're the longest standing Rovers fan in the World, if you havent got the money to buy the Club and perhaps more importantly service any ongoing losses then you're not much use as a potential owner.

The two Ian's clearly don't have the sort of money required and if you were a wealthy individual who was a client of Seneca with no interest in Blackburn Rovers why would you have the remotest interest in investing in the Club? Not only are you going to see a nil percent return on your investment there must be a very high chance of losing your capital altogether. Who's going to go for that? For better or for worse if anyone is to take us over surely it has to be someone utilising their own money not someone at the mercy of individual investors expecting a return.

The only thing that provides a chink of optimism regarding the Seneca interest is that when I was looking at the Seneca Partners website Jack's son in law and former director Richard Matthewman is listed as a director. Is he the real brains and financial muscle behind the operation? That would start to make a bit of sense if he was trying to get the club back and put things right and be theoretically doable if he had (and was willing to commit) the sort of money available. But if so, why is he keeping such a low profile?

What a load of nonsense. The two Ians have the knowledge, experience and contacts to form a consortium capable of acquiring Rovers and running it. I don't ever remember them expressing any intention to buy the club on their own.

And it all makes ABSOLUTE SENSE WHEN YOU REMEMBER THEY ARE DIEHARD ROVERS FANS. I would buy the club if I could, profit -making would not be in my thoughts.

[bob fleming]

34 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Dunn fc is quite right to be sceptical about the two Ian's. The Seneca interest has never made the slightest bit of sense. It doesnt matter if you're the longest standing Rovers fan in the World, if you havent got the money to buy the Club and perhaps more importantly service any ongoing losses then you're not much use as a potential owner.

The two Ian's clearly don't have the sort of money required and if you were a wealthy individual who was a client of Seneca with no interest in Blackburn Rovers why would you have the remotest interest in investing in the Club? Not only are you going to see a nil percent return on your investment there must be a very high chance of losing your capital altogether. Who's going to go for that? For better or for worse if anyone is to take us over surely it has to be someone utilising their own money not someone at the mercy of individual investors expecting a return.

The only thing that provides a chink of optimism regarding the Seneca interest is that when I was looking at the Seneca Partners website Jack's son in law and former director Richard Matthewman is listed as a director. Is he the real brains and financial muscle behind the operation? That would start to make a bit of sense if he was trying to get the club back and put things right and be theoretically doable if he had (and was willing to commit) the sort of money available. But if so, why is he keeping such a low profile?

Tell you what then Rev. You sit around twiddling your thumbs waiting for free money! Meanwhile back on planet Earth...

I'll say it again, the only way anyone will get involved is to see Rovers back in the Premier League. Then they'll see a return on their investment plus a bit more if they so wish, and who really can complain if they did?

Of course, the rules are there (or not as the case maybe) to then asset strip the club again, to take the EPL money, the parachute payments and sell the players. I mean they really have nothing to lose do they? (Remember that anyone?).

But, and here's the marked difference, there's less chance of that happening you would hope, they are Rovers fans.

A few years back I worked for a company in Haydock that overlooked Seneca. I've posted this before on here by the way. Dalglish was seen one time talking to some bloke on the car park there outside their offices. Make no mistake, these guys are well connected.

No one is going to throw free money away I'm afraid Rev - or if they are please let us know who they are. Now is the time.

As an aside, were you against Jack Walker buying the club? I mean he actually stipulated that Rovers at some stage had to "wash its own face" didn't he?

Wake up and smell the coffee. We're now in a very bad place. Anyone who is prepared to try and get us out of it should be welcomed. It'll cost them money in the short term with no guarantees of getting that money back. Success, and a chance to recoup their investment, will be two promotions. I'll take that.

[blueboy3333]

18 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Dunn fc is quite right to be sceptical about the two Ian's. The Seneca interest has never made the slightest bit of sense. It doesnt matter if you're the longest standing Rovers fan in the World, if you havent got the money to buy the Club and perhaps more importantly service any ongoing losses then you're not much use as a potential owner.

The two Ian's clearly don't have the sort of money required and if you were a wealthy individual who was a client of Seneca with no interest in Blackburn Rovers why would you have the remotest interest in investing in the Club? Not only are you going to see a nil percent return on your investment there must be a very high chance of losing your capital altogether. Who's going to go for that? For better or for worse if anyone is to take us over surely it has to be someone utilising their own money not someone at the mercy of individual investors expecting a return.

The only thing that provides a chink of optimism regarding the Seneca interest is that when I was looking at the Seneca Partners website Jack's son in law and former director Richard Matthewman is listed as a director. Is he the real brains and financial muscle behind the operation? That would start to make a bit of sense if he was trying to get the club back and put things right and be theoretically doable if he had (and was willing to commit) the sort of money available. But if so, why is he keeping such a low profile?

There's been sceptical, and there's making stuff up.

As for Seneca and the two Ian's they aren't going to log on here one day, read Dunn FC's post and go 'sheeeiiitttttt why didn't we think of that, it's a non-starter, we've been fools'

Nobody knows what the Seneca proposals are, who is involved, who the backers are, what the terms of their investment are etc. Until then it would be foolish to pre-judge or write them off, or even make stuff up to cast doubt on IB's motives. I find it hard to believe that life-long Rovers fans would want to jeopardise the club any further, or pursue it for their own personal gain.

My main worry when Venky's do one is that there are going to be a lot of people who have worked hard, or not,  to oust them and they are going to want to have a say in how Rovers is run and who runs it. A hodge-podge of vested interests fighting over the carcass is the last thing we need. Strong and Stable leadership is the aim 

 

[47er]

Great post Bob. I think, in this age of social media, someone just has to be a contrarian.

[47er]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

 

 A hodge-podge of vested interests fighting over the carcass is the last thing we need. Strong and Stable leadership is the aim 

 

Kim Jong May for Vice President! 

[RoversClitheroe]

Beggars can't be choosers! 

You lot make it sound as if you own the club and decide who takes over. It's not up to us. 

Seneca are way greater than Venkys

[blueboy3333]

Just now, RoversClitheroe said:

You lot

who?

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Just now, bob fleming said:

Tell you what then Rev. You sit around twiddling your thumbs waiting for free money! Meanwhile back on planet Earth...

I'll say it again, the only way anyone will get involved is to see Rovers back in the Premier League. Then they'll see a return on their investment plus a bit more if they so wish, and who really can complain if they did?

Of course, the rules are there (or not as the case maybe) to then asset strip the club again, to take the EPL money, the parachute payments and sell the players. I mean they really have nothing to lose do they? (Remember that anyone?).

But, and here's the marked difference, there's less chance of that happening you would hope, they are Rovers fans.

A few years back I worked for a company in Haydock that overlooked Seneca. I've posted this before on here by the way. Dalglish was seen one time talking to some bloke on the car park there outside their offices. Make no mistake, these guys are well connected.

No one is going to throw free money away I'm afraid Rev - or if they are please let us know who they are. Now is the time.

As an aside, were you against Jack Walker buying the club? I mean he actually stipulated that Rovers at some stage had to "wash its own face" didn't he?

Wake up and smell the coffee. We're now in a very bad place. Anyone who is prepared to try and get us out of it should be welcomed. It'll cost them money in the short term with no guarantees of getting that money back. Success, and a chance to recoup their investment, will be two promotions. I'll take that.

Good post.  Would also add that even if such investment did not get us back to the PL.  We should at least be a more stable and well run club.

.

[tomphil]

If we look around football many many clubs are owned by businessmen, consortiums and local guys all who don't seem to be hugely wealthy in most cases. There has to be some business reason these people buy and stuck hold of clubs. Tax perks, loss leaders, advertising or accounting tools ?

We can't expect a benefactor anymore we had the original and the best but all we can hope for now really is some genuine custodians. Could and should have been the Walker Trust that was Jacks plan but we know what happened there.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Just now, 47er said:

Great post Bob. I think, in this age of social media, someone just has to be a contrarian.

To be fair to DunnFc, he has every right to take a sceptical view though given how things keep turning out!

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, gumboots said:

I've never understood this tide of enthusiasm for the Seneca bid, were one to be tabled. I want the best possible owners for Rovers, even if they are Burnley fans at heart. It's about having the cash and expertise to turn around a failing, ailing, fractured club, not about being a fan. 

It may be that Seneca and whoever they get on board with them are capable of doing that job, but they may not be either. I think it's a case of wait and see who and what turns up if and when the Rao family get out. Hopefully we won't have long to wait

You know I love you, gb, but what a preposterous comment. How could somebody who was a Burnley fan at heart be the best possible owners for Rovers? At the very least it would be even more divisive - although I'm yet to be convinced that Desai and the Raos aren't Burnley fans at heart.

The Seneca interest is - as things stand - the most viable alternative to Venkys. The fact that it is headed by Rovers fans is a bonus but one that this club desperately needs. Do you know anyone else that we have to compare them to? I'm more worried that people are trying to discredit them or at least cloud the issue. If they walk away - which is incredibly forgivable - then we have nothing. Well, we have the Rovers Trust, a phoenix club (not the funny one) and non-league football.

[Stuart]

59 minutes ago, bob fleming said:

Tell you what then Rev. You sit around twiddling your thumbs waiting for free money! Meanwhile back on planet Earth...

I'll say it again, the only way anyone will get involved is to see Rovers back in the Premier League. Then they'll see a return on their investment plus a bit more if they so wish, and who really can complain if they did?

Of course, the rules are there (or not as the case maybe) to then asset strip the club again, to take the EPL money, the parachute payments and sell the players. I mean they really have nothing to lose do they? (Remember that anyone?).

But, and here's the marked difference, there's less chance of that happening you would hope, they are Rovers fans.

A few years back I worked for a company in Haydock that overlooked Seneca. I've posted this before on here by the way. Dalglish was seen one time talking to some bloke on the car park there outside their offices. Make no mistake, these guys are well connected.

No one is going to throw free money away I'm afraid Rev - or if they are please let us know who they are. Now is the time.

As an aside, were you against Jack Walker buying the club? I mean he actually stipulated that Rovers at some stage had to "wash its own face" didn't he?

Wake up and smell the coffee. We're now in a very bad place. Anyone who is prepared to try and get us out of it should be welcomed. It'll cost them money in the short term with no guarantees of getting that money back. Success, and a chance to recoup their investment, will be two promotions. I'll take that.

Very well put.

[philipl]

Replying to Dunn's numerous posts: 

The two Ians are life long fans who are willing to step forward to do something. Even if Dunn's analysis were correct, they would be a huge step forward from what we have now. It is worth noting that they are restructuring specialists and only a proportion of restructurings succeed so there is nothing damning or alarming revealed about the two Ians based on the fruits of his researches.

However, all of this is pure speculation without any basis of hope in reality.

To buy anything you have to have a seller and so far as Rovers are concerned there is no seller. Both Ian and Alan could not have made that clearer in the BBC interview.

Supporters can completely forget any prospect of local, British or fan-based ownership of Rovers. Venky's are not exactly fans of Blackburn, the people of Blackburn or the UK and that is putting it very very mildly.

Another idea which has to be put to one side is the notion that we are going into administration. For good or for ill, most of the enormous losses and debts reside in India and are not going to be repatriated to Blackburn unless Rovers miraculously make it back to the Premier League in which case the PL fees and parachute payments would be pocketed while Rovers set all kinds of lowest points number records...

I think people are right that to conclude it would be far too dangerous for the Raos in Pune to allow administrators into the club or run the risk of fans calling for department of industry investigation. The skeletons in the cupboard are far too dangerous and too numerous. For this reason also, I don't believe that we are without the shadow (at least) of Jerome Anderson continually taking the closest of interest in Rovers because of his past hyperactive involvement.

And mention of Anderson. I am guessing here but:

1) Battersby/Currie have sports contacts (Currie was a BWFC Director) so they can get to Anderson

2) They couldn't get to the Raos (you heard the description of the two walls etc to get to their compound) but they knew Anderson could.

So how else do you get to talk to the Raos other than through an Anderson introduction???

HUGE CUDOS to Ian Battersby for getting in there to talk serious turkey.

 

By the way, Stuart and Bob Fleming's posts here are excellent.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

To be fair to DunnFc, he has every right to take a sceptical view though given how things keep turning out!

Definitely cannot argue with that.

[gumboots]

31 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You know I love you, gb, but what a preposterous comment. How could somebody who was a Burnley fan at heart be the best possible owners for Rovers? At the very least it would be even more divisive - although I'm yet to be convinced that Desai and the Raos aren't Burnley fans at heart.

The Seneca interest is - as things stand - the most viable alternative to Venkys. The fact that it is headed by Rovers fans is a bonus but one that this club desperately needs. Do you know anyone else that we have to compare them to? I'm more worried that people are trying to discredit them or at least cloud the issue. If they walk away - which is incredibly forgivable - then we have nothing. Well, we have the Rovers Trust, a phoenix club (not the funny one) and non-league football.

I don't seriously think we'd get Burnley fans taking over and we wouldn't want them, so perhaps I shouldn't have put it like that but running a football club is not a heart thing. It needs to be done with a clear head and a good business brain. It doesn't matter if youre a fan of the club you run or not. John Williams, when he ran our club,  wasn't a Rovers fan. It doesn't mean you can't form an attachment to them, work your socks off for them and try to get the best for them. Similarly owners don't have to be fans, but they do have to try to understand the ethos of the club, its demographics, its history, its place in the community. So perhaps a Seneca consortium would be good for us or there might be someone better. Who knows.  I just want rid of our current mob and then let's see what happens.

[Stuart]

Just now, gumboots said:

I just want rid of our current mob and then let's see what happens.

I've been on this track for some time now. A few years ago there would have been a lot of opposition - "Venkys are keeping the club going". It would be interesting to know that the split was now. Surely we are now at a point where over half the fanbase agree that Venkys are bad for Rovers (even if they won't admit that they always were).

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

One thing about a local take over - we know where they live and we can lob a brick through their windows if needs be !

[gumboots]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

One thing about a local take over - we know where they live and we can lob a brick through their windows if needs be !

Granted. Perhaps it would be a good idea if they were Burnley fans then so we could get twice the pleasure! 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

One thing about a local take over - we know where they live and we can lob a brick through their windows if needs be !

That really made me chuckle.

[Gav]

9 minutes ago, Stuart said:

I've been on this track for some time now. A few years ago there would have been a lot of opposition - "Venkys are keeping the club going". It would be interesting to know that the split was now. Surely we are now at a point where over half the fanbase agree that Venkys are bad for Rovers (even if they won't admit that they always were).

We still have a good number that think venkys are the only option Stuart as you've probably read elsewhere, but you'd like to think that well over half are finally getting the message as you say.

But you have to wonder just what it'll take to convince the others, playing down Pleasington maybe? melting down Jacks statue? changing the kit to clar......I can't say it.......

[Stuart]

Just now, Gav said:

We still have a good number that think venkys are the only option Stuart as you've probably read elsewhere, but you'd like to think that well over half are finally getting the message as you say.

But you have to wonder just what it'll take to convince the others, playing down Pleasington maybe? melting down Jacks statue? changing the kit to clar......I can't say it.......

When we are playing down Pleasington these fans will be long gone. It does make you question, fundamentally, what it is they get from watching Rovers:

1 - Watching "world class" players from the likes of United and Chelsea?

2 - Accessible, cheap football in a big stadium?

3 - Local pride and bragging rights in their town team - as long as they are at Level X, Y, or Z

4 - Local pride and bragging rights in their town team - at whatever level

5 - A community focal point to spend time with family, friends and like-minded people?

6 - A passionately followed hobby with intimate knowledge of players, and a 'reach out and touch' feel to it which you will support and defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic, external and on the inside

The further down that list you keep ticking boxes the more chance there is that you will stay when the club really needs you.

A third of PL-Rovers fans only ticked box 1. At a guess, another half of those left only tick box 2. Maybe over half of fans now 'get it' simply because there are fewer layers of fans left. It would be good to increase that education without a further reduction in class size.

(And yes, I know some people are very sensitive to me grouping fans but it is what it is).

[OJRovers]

As much as the Ian's want to help, they are not stupid, there's a season of pain to the tune of £8m to endure before the bottom is truly reached. They are going to let venkys deservedly take this hit before realistically wanting to take over.

Problem is we will probably be in league two by then.

[chaddyrovers]

I'm in favour of any takeover that has a proper business plan with a proper football people involved and a proper structure on and off the field. 

But like PhilipL said any buyer needs a seller and at the minute it doesnt look that way.