[Archived] Bayes, Seneca and Nixon interview

[Tom]

1 hour ago, Dunnfc said:

The best signing what could be made is to lure Jonathan Jackson from Wigan as the new managing director of this football club and fire off Suhail and Cheston giving Jackson complete and autonomous control.

Senaca worries me hugely the warning signs were there if you look back at some of the points I raised following the interview last night.

• Where is the upfront capital coming from? Are these investors expecting a return, if so then when? Who are they and what is there agenda on purchasing a debt ridden football club? What happens if the investors don’t cough up what initially promised, the Ians and Seneca have no money so this constitutes a pretty big gamble. Is the investment staying in the team or when time allows will this be taken out and capital only used to aid cashflow in the medium term given the short term we know the answer.

• What happens when one of the big ones pulls out through lack of returns given you don’t tend to make money in football? What is the capital secured by, the clubs assets?

• If purchased what is the long term goal, promotion to the championship and sell? Go for the jugular to the Premier League and sell?

• They’ve been to Pune and put a 20+20+20 offer of investment forward last summer, since then nothing bar four radio interviews. As admitted nobody from Venky’s is going to fall at Ian B’s door so what is being done to facilitate the breakthrough? I’ve raised the subject of going through David Hull @ Squire Sanders LLP whom are Venky’s and Suhail’s legal contact here, if you’re serious why wouldn’t you express interest in this way? Odd.

• It’s ok to talk about have 30, 90 day plans and three months etc. but what actually are these, no detail, zilch etc. offered. Given they don’t appear to have at least forecasted the finances and position of things, are they even that serious? Due diligence is what three months? In the situation the club finds itself in and the potential to worsen significantly over the next period then I’d have as much base work done as I could if I was looking at stepping in and saving a club to have either the best impact from day one, reservations answered, shorten the due diligence period. He’s had a year since his offer of investment so I think it’s a fair point to make.

• Points such as if the club had no money but was ran ok fans would accept this, personally I’m not so sure they would and it’s not a good statement to make if that’s the case.

• The point about expensive short term loans, Ian conceded this was normal practise in day to day businesses, sorry Ian it isn’t it might be if you’re in a distressed state like Blackburn without 1^st/2^nd tier lending facilities but in everyday life it’s far from that.

Seneca themselves have a net turnover of just 3.5 Million, the companies they invest in are penny share companies struggling to get off the ground which may just strike gold one day and as such trade on the AIM, any one with share experience will know the background of the AIM being very much a hit and miss street which suffers from a lack of regulation at times.

Looking at the Seneca website the following stands out; partially due to the very low numbers of transaction worth.

•We will invest between £200k to £3m per transaction.

•We are also able to co-invest with HNW individuals or other funders.

•Our funds can be used for short-term opportunities up to a five year investment period.

Looking at Ian’s history on company’s house he appears to have held directorships at the below:

• Bowland Services (Active) Company worth £2.00.

• Bowland Services Limited (Active) Secretarial Position - Company worth £2.00.

• Seneca Capital No.2 (Active) Exempt for small accounts basically 100k or less. Share worth £100.00

• SBC Forensics (Dissolved) Struck of as dormant company worth £0

• Caribbean Estate Development (Dissolved) Struck of as a dormant company share worth £75.00

• Wealthfx Limited (Active) Exempt for small accounts basically 100k or less. Share worth £100.00

• Formation Group Plc (Resigned) probably someone he worked for as it’s based in London and has several subsidiaries.

• Formation Wealth Solutions Ltd (Resigned) Company liquidated – went bust six months after

• Formation Asset Management Ltd (Resigned) Company liquidated – went bust six months after

• Formation Asset Management Ltd. (Resigned) Company liquidated – went bust six months after

• Private Financiers & Investors (PFI) Ltd (Dissolved) - Struck of as a dormant company

• Greenhalgh Financial Services (Resigned) – Company worth £928.00 exempt from filing returns too small.

• Knightsbridge Tax Consultancy Ltd (Dissolved) – Struck of as dormant company worth £2.00

• KNL TOPCO Ltd (Dissolved) – Looks like he just set this shell company up and resigned soon after.

• Paisley Glen Ltd (Liquidation) – Again he just set this company up for Colin Hendry’s family and quickly resigned.

• Take 5 Film Company Limited LLP (Active) – Just a participant in a tax avoidance scheme.

 

I think people/posters are being blinded by the positive platitudes he gives off and the accuracy of his assessment of the club structure, venkys in general. Nobody on this forum knows of his company or intentions of his offer as he's never provided any, how can you back something if you don't know what it entails? Too many people in the ahhh but he's not Venkys camp and being blinded by the fact that this gentleman despite his good demeanour and possible intentions may not be the right man.

 

Brilliant, a post with actual research and substance.

I don't know how it would turn out but for people to say they think Ian would be the best option (posted yesterday) without actually knowing anything other than being a rovers fan and a businessman is somewhat naive 

[Crimpshrine]

I didn't hear all the radio Lancs interview so can someone tell me why £10 million is needed before the start of next season. Is it to pay off the short term loans ?

If Venkys don't come up with this money what happens? Is there some sort of deadline ?  

[JBiz]

Just now, Crimpshrine said:

I didn't hear all the radio Lancs interview so can someone tell me why £10 million is needed before the start of next season. Is it to pay off the short term loans ?

If Venkys don't come up with this money what happens? Is there some sort of deadline ?  

Our wages and costs are about 10 million more than the turnover. Last year we sold Duffy and Hanley to cover it. This year, we don't have anything.

[Crimpshrine]

Just now, Biz said:

Our wages and costs are about 10 million more than the turnover. Last year we sold Duffy and Hanley to cover it. This year, we don't have anything.

Oh I see, thanks.

I guess it will just be added to the overall debt and increase our yearly losses. No ultimatums or anything.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Neal said:

 

Thanks for that, you just proved my point. I see Parson liked it too, which is hilarious considering no amount of kind words would of got him to back a protest anyway. 

You don't have a point. You responded to someone saying they're surprised that people think we'll walk the league and used it as an excuse to go on your usual rant about how clueless/useless our fan base is.

[gumboots]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

You don't have a point. You responded to someone saying they're surprised that people think we'll walk the league and used it as an excuse to go on your usual rant about how clueless/useless our fan base is.

Well if they think we'll walk League 1, I have to agree they are. At the moment we'd struggle to put out a team and I don't see that getting much better

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

How the hell do you bring Venkys to the table when they appear to point blank refuse to talk to anyone and state they do not want to sell?

I'm at a total loss with these people....no sale but don't want to spend! 

[JBiz]

Just now, Crimpshrine said:

Oh I see, thanks.

I guess it will just be added to the overall debt and increase our yearly losses. No ultimatums or anything.

That's the cross roads we are at. Either they put ten million in (i.e. More debt owed to them) or they start missing payments of wages, cutting costs to absolute minimum through selling off/closing facilities if they can't raise the deficit.

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, gumboots said:

Well if they think we'll walk League 1, I have to agree they are. At the moment we'd struggle to put out a team and I don't see that getting much better

That wasn't the point.

But if you think it was then you need to 'put your pathetic excuses aside, take your finger out of your arse and join the fight' as Neal so charmingly suggests.

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

How the hell do you bring Venkys to the table when they appear to point blank refuse to talk to anyone and state they do not want to sell?

I'm at a total loss with these people....no sale but don't want to spend! 

The 140-ish million dollar question. It's an unbelievable situation. The club is essentially being held hostage by people who don't care whether it lives or dies. And if it dies there will be nobody coming after them to prosecute.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 minute ago, Tom said:

Brilliant, a post with actual research and substance.

I don't know how it would turn out but for people to say they think Ian would be the best option (posted yesterday) without actually knowing anything other than being a rovers fan and a businessman is somewhat naive 

Research is a great thing.

Initially it must be pointed out that Ian B is not and never was an option.

The services of Seneca Partners were and maybe still are. Ian B being the Business Development Manager for the Seneca Group which is a posh title for a Salesman - and there is nothing wrong with that.

Any old and defunct Directorships that Ian B held that were/are not associated with or in conflict with Seneca are irrelevant.

Research into Seneca Parners and their subsidiaries is more relevant.

 I have started at:

http://senecapartners.co.uk

And just out of personal interest at:

http://senecaim.com

Both sites are interesting and to me encouraging that Seneca as a Group appear to have substance.

Much more info can be obtained quite easily by those with time and inclination.

[K-Hod]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

That wasn't the point.

But if you think it was then you need to 'put your pathetic excuses aside, take your finger out of your arse and join the fight' as Neal so charmingly suggests.

 

He was a bit direct, but in the last seven years, we've been relegated twice, loaded with debt, been the laughing stock of football and rival fans for the last seven years, had the playing squad continuously downgraded and the infrastructure is at threat as we've a big financial black hole to plug, even if you momentarily forget the debt.

It simply cannot continue and we need to make every effort to make sure that the current status quo doesn't. I'm sick to death of feeling like crap with all things Rovers, when it's a massive part of my life, identity and so important to so many in the local area.

I think some people need to get involved with helping to save the club and not criticizing those that do. Even if you don't like the way they're going about things, at least he's trying to bring about change. I find it incredible that people say that want Venky's out, but they won't get involved with any efforts to make that happen.

The last line is just having your cake and eating it if you ask me.....

[Dunnfc]

Just now, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

How the hell do you bring Venkys to the table when they appear to point blank refuse to talk to anyone and state they do not want to sell?

I'm at a total loss with these people....no sale but don't want to spend! 

True but I don't think they are totally to blame at that, maybe 90 percent, who's the one though babbling about how many appearances academy players have made for the first team? Who's the one celebrating we now owe two million less to the bank neglecting the fact he couldn't cash flow properly and took loans out?

does anyone think for one minute Cheston actually has the conviction to tell the owners the true picture? Ibdont

[phili]

I've been trying to figure out how we can make League 1 work based on the 60% wage budget to turnover limit.

Looking at the figures we will have a income/turnover next year of around £10m (could be much less) giving us a total wage budget of around £6m. I think owners are allowed to put money into the club which increases turnover for these figures but with our existing salary commitments etc i'm not sure how it will work.

We'll have to use the youth teams in the first team and no new signings even on a free as we can't fund them.

 

 

[JHRover]

How did Bolton do it? They had a massive wage bill with people like Spearing and Wheater on the books yet kept hold of them all.

My point is that where there's a will there's a way. We could have avoided a transfer embargo the other year if the owners had been determined enough to do something about it, but they weren't bothered and so we became one of only 3 clubs to suffer punishment.

Our problem isn't going to be FFP rules, wages or turnover. There is a way around all those issues if you get your house in order and are determined to deal with it. Our problem is going to be Venkys.

 

[JBiz]

32 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Whilst I appreciate that you feel got at when people suggest that those who attend are in the wrong, I think you're having a go at genuine boycotters yourself too. I have not been to any matches this season, not cup, not youth cup, not league, despite my daughter begging me to go with her at least once. I'm not a fair weather fan in that it doesn't matter to me what league we are in whether I attend. I'll gladly watch us in League 1, 2 or wherever we end up but I will not do so while the Rao family and whoever their associates are run the show at Ewood. I'm not one to say I'm not going and then turn up if a big club comes to town. I stick to what I have said, that I won't come back till they go, just as you keep attending despite their still being here. I don't have any way of knowing if my action is the right one but I know what feels right to me

If you returned for the cup games, your boycott is not a boycott.

If you can't face the sport, stadium, players, manager, owners et al after what has gone on - how could I or anyone criticise you?

My issue has always been with those who purport to be "boycotting" for those reasons but return for games against big teams. There are thousands of fans who returned for united and Liverpool who could really help drive the protests forward, but they will not!

You, Abbey, Neal, others from here - genuinely can understand why you cannot go and respect that. You guys aren't justifying apathy through a "protest". There are plenty who do.

Do I believe the answer is boycott or a season ticket? I don't think the question is quite as black and white as that, but I will gladly argue to the hilt that those still attending ARE NOT responsible for the demise of our club. Not even in the slightest.

 

[Gav]

39 minutes ago, Neal said:

 

Thanks for that, you just proved my point. I see Parson liked it too, which is hilarious considering no amount of kind words would of got him to back a protest anyway. 

Sit down, shut up and support your team, it's worked so far......

[Dunnfc]

Just now, JHRover said:

How did Bolton do it? They had a massive wage bill with people like Spearing and Wheater on the books yet kept hold of them all.

My point is that where there's a will there's a way. We could have avoided a transfer embargo the other year if the owners had been determined enough to do something about it, but they weren't bothered and so we became one of only 3 clubs to suffer punishment.

Our problem isn't going to be FFP rules, wages or turnover. There is a way around all those issues if you get your house in order and are determined to deal with it. Our problem is going to be Venkys.

 

Took a blumarble loan out for 4 million. Haven't repaid it now in court. Ken Anderson chips in with investment when required but takes it out when he can and solely does it to ease the cash flow 

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, phili said:

I've been trying to figure out how we can make League 1 work based on the 60% wage budget to turnover limit.

Looking at the figures we will have a income/turnover next year of around £10m (could be much less) giving us a total wage budget of around £6m. I think owners are allowed to put money into the club which increases turnover for these figures but with our existing salary commitments etc i'm not sure how it will work.

We'll have to use the youth teams in the first team and no new signings even on a free as we can't fund them.

 

 

 

Surely that depends on what sales are made and which players are released. If Steele goes for 3 million that's 3 million to the running costs + a wage freed. You could assume you may get 500k for Evans and a big wage off the books. Then deduct the wages of Guthrie, Akpan and co. If we can once again bolster the squad with loans you have a chance in this league of fielding a competitive team.

We have to assume that our size will hold us in better stead in this league than the Championship. We should have the pick of the loan options with regards to players available to this pool of teams. Common sense suggests we should be able to field the strongest squad in this league; not that common sense is all that common at Ewood right now. 

Filling the squad with some of the youth players wouldn't be a bad thing. I think it would be a perfect opportunity for the likes of Wharton, Lenihan, Raya, Tomlinson, Nyambe etc to come through strongly. It is a shame Mahoney looks like he's moving on though.

[JBiz]

Just now, Gav said:

Sit down, shut up and support your team, it's worked so far......

Boycotting and protesting worked also didn't it.!!

I mean, Venkys are a distant memory, we are in the premier league and just re-signed Hughes as manager. Thank god we put those chickens on the pitch when we did! 

[JHRover]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

Took a blumarble loan out for 4 million. Haven't repaid it now in court. Ken Anderson chips in with investment when required but takes it out when he can and solely does it to ease the cash flow 

The bluemarble loan was taken out by Dean Houldsworth's group right at the start to buy the club/cover the debts. I think the dispute now is whether it is Houldsworth & co who should be paying the money back or Wanderers.

Granted their problems are far from over financially but if anyone at Rovers needs a blueprint of how to deal with relegation then they need to be it. Very similar club and circumstances to what we've got here in terms of wages and income and yet they demonstrated it is possible to drop, deal with it and bounce straight back.

I made the mistake when we were under the embargo of blaming the League for our problems. Whilst I still maintain the rules are ridiculous and should be erased I now recognise that they are easy to work your way around as 90% of clubs have done for the last 4 years.

I refuse to accept FFP are a reason why we will struggle next year. Cheston and co. might use them as an excuse (see the season ticket renewals page as they cling desperately to it) but for clubs that mean business and are determined to get where they want to be the rules are nothing more than an irritation.

I refuse to accept that if Fleetwood Town can finish 3rd with gates of 3,000 that we should be worried about revenues and FFP rules as being a problem.

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

Took a blumarble loan out for 4 million. Haven't repaid it now in court. Ken Anderson chips in with investment when required but takes it out when he can and solely does it to ease the cash flow 

Also sold their training facility?

[phili]

Just now, JHRover said:

How did Bolton do it? They had a massive wage bill with people like Spearing and Wheater on the books yet kept hold of them all.

My point is that where there's a will there's a way. We could have avoided a transfer embargo the other year if the owners had been determined enough to do something about it, but they weren't bothered and so we became one of only 3 clubs to suffer punishment.

Our problem isn't going to be FFP rules, wages or turnover. There is a way around all those issues if you get your house in order and are determined to deal with it. Our problem is going to be Venkys.

 

Yep but they had gone through administration and cleared a lot of debt.

We haven't gone through administration and still have to pay former players contracts out which are still part of the 60% wage budget calculation from what I can see. Venky's have to put £10m in just to cover those former player contracts and give us a net 0 wage budget from what I can gather.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, JHRover said:

The bluemarble loan was taken out by Dean Houldsworth's group right at the start to buy the club/cover the debts. I think the dispute now is whether it is Houldsworth & co who should be paying the money back or Wanderers.

Granted their problems are far from over financially but if anyone at Rovers needs a blueprint of how to deal with relegation then they need to be it. Very similar club and circumstances to what we've got here in terms of wages and income and yet they demonstrated it is possible to drop, deal with it and bounce straight back.

I made the mistake when we were under the embargo of blaming the League for our problems. Whilst I still maintain the rules are ridiculous and should be erased I now recognise that they are easy to work your way around as 90% of clubs have done for the last 4 years.

I refuse to accept FFP are a reason why we will struggle next year. Cheston and co. might use them as an excuse (see the season ticket renewals page as they cling desperately to it) but for clubs that mean business and are determined to get where they want to be the rules are nothing more than an irritation.

I refuse to accept that if Fleetwood Town can finish 3rd with gates of 3,000 that we should be worried about revenues and FFP rules as being a problem.

 

Spot on, sports shield took the loan out I thought for working capital with the debt owed to Davies cut down but still owed at around 40 million. 

[Gav]

Just now, Biz said:

Boycotting and protesting worked also didn't it.!!

I mean, Venkys are a distant memory.

For many it has yes.

For many Venkys no longer dip into their bank accounts and take their hard earned cash.

For many Venkys decision making no longer impacts on their lives.

For many Venkys no longer trade/spin on the back of their name.

I could go on....