[Archived] Manchester Bombing

[otto man]

Right wing rhetoric? So condemning  Daesh is only for the right wing  eh? So by your own logic, you're a Daesh supporter? How do you think an extremist Muslim who insists that females are covered head to foot would react to a scantily clad female performer? These people hate not only for our beliefs(Or as they perceive it, lack of them) but also for our way of life, including how we dress. but of course that's just right wing rhetoric, right?

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, otto man said:

An interesting piece about a Muslim Psychiatrist.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4536842/Muslim-psychiatrist-calls-cut-Islamic-immigration.html

'Just posted the link on t'other site. Now just waiting for the reaction'

http://roversfans.com/index.php?threads/m-e-n.233/page-2

Tut Tut troll

 

[Batman.]

Just now, otto man said:

Right wing rhetoric? So condemning  Daesh is only for the right wing  eh? So by your own logic, you're a Daesh supporter? 

Everyone is condeming ISIS, you're condeming religions.

Your twisting of rhetoric to try and make a point is unbelievable. Go away.

[Batman.]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

'Just posted the link on t'other site. Now just waiting for the reaction'

http://roversfans.com/index.php?threads/m-e-n.233/page-2

Tut Tut troll

 

The man is vile.

[JBiz]

Just now, otto man said:

Right wing rhetoric? So condemning  Daesh is only for the right wing  eh? So by your own logic, you're a Daesh supporter? How do you think an extremist Muslim who insists that females are covered head to foot would react to a scantily clad female performer? These people hate not only for our beliefs(Or as they perceive it, lack of them) but also for our way of life, including how we dress. but of course that's just right wing rhetoric, right?

Nope. Standing out against all HATRED is the right thing to do. Boxing the problem off as one of religion, ignoring geo-political issues or the absolute FACT that these scumbags are mentally ill is the "right wing" way.

 

 

[Paul]

2 hours ago, otto man said:

An interesting piece about a Muslim Psychiatrist.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4536842/Muslim-psychiatrist-calls-cut-Islamic-immigration.html

The difficulty with articles like this is they give support to a view but don't provide any credible research to back it up.

A link to Chatham House, a credible source, would be valuable. A poll conducted in Australia by a media company less so but at least we would have some data.

There is also this from Wikipedia:

"Ahmed's contributions to the Sydney Morning Herald were discontinued after he was exposed as a serial plagiarist, who had repeatedly presented work from other sources as his own.^[13] In September 2012, "Media Watch has identified six other articles by Tanveer Ahmed, including one written for the website Mamamia, which contain passages lifted from other sources," the program found.^[14]"

 

 

[DE.]

https://ourworldindata.org/terrorism/

Some interesting data here, worth a read as, imo, it shows there is far more to our current situation than "Islam is bad". 

[otto man]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

'Just posted the link on t'other site. Now just waiting for the reaction'

http://roversfans.com/index.php?threads/m-e-n.233/page-2

Tut Tut troll

 

Not trolling at all. I knew the reaction I would get from certain individuals and was proved right!

[Baz]

 

 

[otto man]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Nope. Standing out against all HATRED is the right thing to do. Boxing the problem off as one of religion, ignoring geo-political issues or the absolute FACT that these scumbags are mentally ill is the "right wing" way.

 

 

You are off with the fairies!  You really believe this has nothing to do with religion?  "There are non so blind as those who will not see". 

[otto man]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

The difficulty with articles like this is they give support to a view but don't provide any credible research to back it up.

A link to Chatham House, a credible source, would be valuable. A poll conducted in Australia by a media company less so but at least we would have some data.

There is also this from Wikipedia:

"Ahmed's contributions to the Sydney Morning Herald were discontinued after he was exposed as a serial plagiarist, who had repeatedly presented work from other sources as his own.^[13] In September 2012, "Media Watch has identified six other articles by Tanveer Ahmed, including one written for the website Mamamia, which contain passages lifted from other sources," the program found.^[14]"

 

 

Not quite sure what your point is there Paul, other than to try to discredit the guy? Does his past make his opinion any less valid?

[Batman.]

Just now, otto man said:

Not quite sure what your point is there Paul, other than to try to discredit the guy? Does his past make his opinion any less valid?

Well, when a man has a reputation for passing other people's work and opinions as his own.. 

Or we could approach it from your point of.. "He's muslim, and he's saying something that I agree with, so how can you say it's not true?"

[JBiz]

19 minutes ago, otto man said:

You are off with the fairies!  You really believe this has nothing to do with religion?  "There are non so blind as those who will not see". 

You are falling into the trap. What do the extremist want? People to fall out and point fingers.

History is littered with examples of horrible acts committed by all walks of life. Keep focusing on the religion, and you'll keep doing the terrorising for the scum that want it.

[Batman.]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

You are falling into the trap. What do the extremist want? People to fall out and point fingers.

History is littered with examples of horrible acts committed by all walks of life. Keep focusing on the religion, and you'll keep doing the terrorising for the scum that want it.

Exactly. It's a well know fact that ISIS want division with hatred that leads to come kind of Holy WW3, that they somehow see themselves winning, cleansing the earth in the process.

Every terrorist attack is designed to further divide society. All these things are well known, but still people fall into their trap. It's little wonder the world is such a mess. If they could see it had no impact, they wouldn't do it.

[Biddy]

Just now, Batman. said:

If they could see it had no impact, they wouldn't do it.

It does have impact though.  I find that a very crass comment.  It has a LOT of impact on the people directly affected by the actions of this individual. 

Take for example this grieving husband of Alison Howe on Good Morning Britain this morning http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/reality-tv/news/a829169/good-morning-britain-manchester-terror-act-tougher/

It also has an indirect impact on people like me who has an 8 year old daughter who recently went to her first Olly Murs concert and then it starts to play on your mind with what if's.  How it could have been us directly affected if circumstances were different.  What a @#/? world we live in for our kids. 

ISIS want hatred, well they can have my hatred.

[JBiz]

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488

Just one side of a million stories. People need to read this to see how this is deeper than religion or a sect. The geopolitical elements cannot be ignored, the influence of different countries, war, famine et al.

"From drug dealers to Muslims" is a fantastic point about how this can have beginnings because of degradation of certain areas, poor funding of education, services, less police, less data analysts, lower house prices and no low skilled labour positions or opportunities to develop careers.

You might find it crass biddy, but he has a point. If the west responded differently and people pointed fingers at just the perps, these attention seeking, mentally ill losers wouldn't get anywhere near the same reaction.

[Batman.]

Just now, Biddy said:

It does have impact though.  I find that a very crass comment.

I'm mean have an impact on the racial and multicultural attitudes of the people. Ie. No impact in causing division.

Please don't and suggest I'm saying that the families should have the attitude of "I'm not letting this upset me because it's what they want." Of course not. But it shouldn't be causing communities to divide between muslims and non muslims, or for people to want special laws inflicted upon muslims, because that is exactly what they (the terrorists) do want.

And, is exactly what is happening among some parts of our community, as can be seen by some of the posts on here.

[Batman.]

Just now, Biddy said:

ISIS want hatred, well they can have my hatred.

You should be offering them your pity, as well as your will not to be intimidated, scared, nor to change your way of life. You certainly shouldn't be tolerating changes of attitude towards Muslims in society, because again, if such is the case, they have you hook line and sinker.

[Paul]

2 hours ago, otto man said:

Not quite sure what your point is there Paul, other than to try to discredit the guy? Does his past make his opinion any less valid?

I thought I made two points; firstly the article quotes to polls without providing any link or reference to them which would allow the reader to make a judgement. We are therefore left only with his interpretation. 

Secondly the writer has a reputation for plagiarism. This appears to be an established fact. I'm not discrediting but questioning the validity of an article which provides no references and is written by a man with a history. 

[otto man]

1 hour ago, Paul said:

I thought I made two points; firstly the article quotes to polls without providing any link or reference to them which would allow the reader to make a judgement. We are therefore left only with his interpretation. 

Secondly the writer has a reputation for plagiarism. This appears to be an established fact. I'm not discrediting but questioning the validity of an article which provides no references and is written by a man with a history. 

So no thoughts on his opinions, you're simply dismissing what he has to say because of a lack of links? Or do those opinions coming from a Muslim make you feel uncomfortable?

[JBiz]

15 minutes ago, otto man said:

So no thoughts on his opinions, you're simply dismissing what he has to say because of a lack of links? Or do those opinions coming from a Muslim make you feel uncomfortable?

The point he is making is that the guy is proven fraud. It's like asking Venkys for their opinion on how to run a good football club.

[Batman.]

48 minutes ago, otto man said:

So no thoughts on his opinions, you're simply dismissing what he has to say because of a lack of links? Or do those opinions coming from a Muslim make you feel uncomfortable?

I didn't think your credibility could drop any further. "Is it cos he's a Muslim?" No, it's because he has a past record of stealing other people's findings and opinions and presenting them as his own.

Which part of that are you struggling with?

[JBiz]

7 hours ago, Baz said:

 

 

Only just got round to watching this. Harrowingly prophetic. 

[JBiz]

 

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-bomber-salman-abedi-banned-13092209

Rooted out of their mosque and reported to authorities, what else could this particular community have done?

 

Further reading into LIFG, the Libyan anti gaddafi group- another example of a complete mess- those "Islamic fighters" actively opposing Gaddafis regime, of socialist Islam, sharia law etc. Let's not forget that Gaddafi and Libya was responsible for the 1988 Lockerbie bombing, and others including the Berlin nightclub, which were supposedly retaliation for US naval activity in the south med.

Its such a mess on so many levels but it seems that the triggers are often a group either responding to insurgency or someone within becoming the figurehead of a "revolution". It's based on propaganda and fear, and as I said with Yemen, it's not difficult to make the civilians hate the west when the bombs landing on their cities have our flags on them! Even if they are fired from Saudi's who bought them from us.

[JBiz]

Just now, Steve1 said:

 

Dragged the @#/? by the balls to the nearest hospital and sectioned the siko that's what they could have done ! 

That's the responsibility of the police, not the general public.

Did you watch the video Baz posted, Steve? 

Seeing a Manchester cop say this will happen, 5 years after, talking about the lack of local police... I'm angry at politicians and government for this, deficit or not this cut has potentially cost lives.